Pentecost
- Thread starter CS1
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Today it is to see, that the pentecostal and charismatic teachings influence nearly all denominations, even the rcc. So today you must not belong to this movements.
In germany there is an Definition for pentecostal or charismatic, which include all people who are member of this movements or who practise their teaching.
From this Definition you are an charismatic.
I have never said, that all gifts of the Holy Spirit has stopped for today!!!
In germany there is an Definition for pentecostal or charismatic, which include all people who are member of this movements or who practise their teaching.
From this Definition you are an charismatic.
I have never said, that all gifts of the Holy Spirit has stopped for today!!!
-
1
- Show all
N
this is the dude who states only Charasmatics and Pentecostals have the gift of tongues but when you rightly inform him that is not at all true, he comes back with those Charasmatics and Pentecostals have influenced nearly all denominations
Sounds like someone who will say water is dry if you say it is wet
Sounds like someone who will say water is dry if you say it is wet
Maby you made not your homework?
About the RCC. I have an example. In germany lives preacher Jörg Hartl. He is a very good speaker and influences mostly youth. He claimes to be baptised with the Holy Spirit and speaks in tongues. At the same time He defends all the RCC doctrines.
How this is possible?
Of course their are differences between charismatic movements which working mostly not as church, but infiltrate churches and pentecostals have their own churches.
In the beginning of the pentecostal movement they startet not in all denominstions. It startet in Azusa Meetings and from their this teaching was shift in all part of the world.
Yes, today they are in all denominations.
The charismatic movements startet out of churches. And went in in already settled churches/ denominations. From 1987 when I became a believer till today it increases very much. I speak from germany.
About the RCC. I have an example. In germany lives preacher Jörg Hartl. He is a very good speaker and influences mostly youth. He claimes to be baptised with the Holy Spirit and speaks in tongues. At the same time He defends all the RCC doctrines.
How this is possible?
Of course their are differences between charismatic movements which working mostly not as church, but infiltrate churches and pentecostals have their own churches.
In the beginning of the pentecostal movement they startet not in all denominstions. It startet in Azusa Meetings and from their this teaching was shift in all part of the world.
Yes, today they are in all denominations.
The charismatic movements startet out of churches. And went in in already settled churches/ denominations. From 1987 when I became a believer till today it increases very much. I speak from germany.
this is the dude who states only Charasmatics and Pentecostals have the gift of tongues but when you rightly inform him that is not at all true, he comes back with those Charasmatics and Pentecostals have influenced nearly all denominations
Sounds like someone who will say water is dry if you say it is wet
Sounds like someone who will say water is dry if you say it is wet
N
this is the dude who states only Charasmatics and Pentecostals have the gift of tongues but when you rightly inform him that is not at all true, he comes back with those Charasmatics and Pentecostals have influenced nearly all denominations
Sounds like someone who will say water is dry if you say it is wet
like I said..............
Sounds like someone who will say water is dry if you say it is wet
like I said..............
You will have to take that up with Jorg Hartl as I told you your experience is what you rely on along with your intellect both are not authoritative. My thread is not about the Penacostel church I know you want to stay there as it is your habit. But As the word of God said and Jesus in Acts 1:8 You shall receive power after the Holy Ghost comes upon you, and you shall be my witnesses.
You are very funny too, I might add.
If the issue with the Pentacostel movement started in 1900, when did you receive the gift of Discernment 70AD?
And Your Reformation churches today have left sola Scriptura for Homo -sexuality. No mainline Pentecostal church has done that.
FYI, Martin Luther was a devout Catholic priest and theologian. Yet the Reformer church today has left the Roots for Perversion and very much so in Germany today. Before Luther had an issue with the RCC fleecing the flock for many, HE defended the RCC Doctrine that came from the word of God, did he not? You hold others to a standard but give a pass to those like-minded? Hypocrite.
Yes, the gifts of the Holy Spirit started in church. Paul taught the m in 1cor chapters 12- 14. and 1987? in 1987, many churches in Germany were dead. IT WAS UNTIL 1989 THAT WAR CAME DOWN, lol.
“and said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day: ( what your saying )
and that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem. ( what I’m saying )
And ye are witnesses of these things.”
Luke 24:46-48 KJV
when Paul says things like this
“For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified.”
1 Corinthians 2:2 KJV
He isn’t saying “ all I know is Jesus died and rose “ he’s saying I know Jesus , and understand the power of his death and resurrection “
did you notice how Paul often comes back to the death and resurrection in his teachings ? Like baptism Paul teaches us how baptism ties to his death and resurrection
There are a few places but an example
“Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. For he that is dead is freed from sin.”
Romans 6:3-7
“buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead. And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses; blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;”
Colossians 2:12-14 KJV
Notice how his doctrine ( whatboauls teaching ) isn’t just Jesus died and rose ect but he’s teaching deep true things out the gospel subjects like baptism here or another good example is communion
“For I have received of the Lord that which also I delivered unto you, That the Lord Jesus the same night in which he was betrayed took bread: and when he had given thanks, he brake it, and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me.
After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me.
For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do shew the Lord's death till he come.
Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord. For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body.
( we can see this has a real impact on the church ) For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep.”
1 Corinthians 11:23-27, 29
My point isn’t that paul didn’t preach Jesus and him crucified Risen and exalted to the throne of course he did I’m actually saying
Paul preached Jesus the christ and his kingdom
and also him crucified risen and exalted to the throne which is the effective power of God to remit sins from repentant sinners through his death burial and resurrection being applied to believers through faith
and that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem. ( what I’m saying )
And ye are witnesses of these things.”
Luke 24:46-48 KJV
when Paul says things like this
“For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified.”
1 Corinthians 2:2 KJV
He isn’t saying “ all I know is Jesus died and rose “ he’s saying I know Jesus , and understand the power of his death and resurrection “
did you notice how Paul often comes back to the death and resurrection in his teachings ? Like baptism Paul teaches us how baptism ties to his death and resurrection
There are a few places but an example
“Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. For he that is dead is freed from sin.”
Romans 6:3-7
“buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead. And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses; blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;”
Colossians 2:12-14 KJV
Notice how his doctrine ( whatboauls teaching ) isn’t just Jesus died and rose ect but he’s teaching deep true things out the gospel subjects like baptism here or another good example is communion
“For I have received of the Lord that which also I delivered unto you, That the Lord Jesus the same night in which he was betrayed took bread: and when he had given thanks, he brake it, and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me.
After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me.
For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do shew the Lord's death till he come.
Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord. For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body.
( we can see this has a real impact on the church ) For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep.”
1 Corinthians 11:23-27, 29
My point isn’t that paul didn’t preach Jesus and him crucified Risen and exalted to the throne of course he did I’m actually saying
Paul preached Jesus the christ and his kingdom
and also him crucified risen and exalted to the throne which is the effective power of God to remit sins from repentant sinners through his death burial and resurrection being applied to believers through faith
-
2
- Show all
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep.”
While our salvation is not in question the body suffers from unworthy things we do such as breaking bread with leven bread which many of you say is only symbolic.
I can think of many things that are unworthy but we each should search our lives to be more pleasing to the Lord
For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep.”
While our salvation is not in question the body suffers from unworthy things we do such as breaking bread with leven bread which many of you say is only symbolic.
I can think of many things that are unworthy but we each should search our lives to be more pleasing to the Lord
-
2
- Show all
I was just making the point Paul actually taught the doctrine in the gospel also as well as Jesus death and resurrection but Paul and the apostles really are revelators taking the doctrines Jesus preached beforehand and opening them up for understanding showing us how they apply tangibly To our daily lives and faith
-
1
- Show all
Paul is a master at simplification and getting to the heart of the matter. At the time of this epistle, the Corinthian congregation was suffering due to sin (leaven), and Paul wanted them to remove the leaven (one member in particular who was engaged in a horrible sexual sin) and get their focus back on Jesus.
-
1
- Show all
did not know this event rested soley on one person
We know that we are in the Time of the Gentiles and that time will end, the fulfillment of that time will end.
So using your thoughts here:
When the Time of the Gentiles are fulfilled...is that when the last Gentile person is saved...or the final day God had intended for it to end?
If it's based upon the number of Gentiles who get saved then it could be based upon the last (one) person.
Indeed I’ve noticed the first letter to corinth is an intended harsh rebuke to excommunicate the sinner among them who’s caused the ruckus and spread the leaven and also a rebuke to the church for approving of it and even openly condoning this sinfulness in the church
and the second letter later is sent to reconcile his anger and rebuke to them in the first , to the mercy he was revealing in the second
a sort of first letter to the Corinthians
“For I verily, as absent in body, but present in spirit, have judged already, as though I were present, concerning him that hath so done this deed, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ, to deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus. Your glorying is not good. Know ye not that a little leaven leaveneth the whole lump? Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us:”
1 Corinthians 5:3-7 KJV
but second letter which references the matter again the apostle still considering the matter grievously writes
“For out of much affliction and anguish of heart I wrote unto you with many tears; not that ye should be grieved, but that ye might know the love which I have more abundantly unto you.
Sufficient to such a man is this punishment, which was inflicted of many. So that contrariwise ye ought rather to forgive him, and comfort him, lest perhaps such a one should be swallowed up with overmuch sorrow. Wherefore I beseech you that ye would confirm your love toward him.
For to this end also did I write, that I might know the proof of you, whether ye be obedient in all things.”
2 Corinthians 2:4, 6-9 KJV
still speaking of the matter
“For though I made you sorry with a letter, I do not repent, though I did repent: for I perceive that the same epistle hath made you sorry, though it were but for a season. Now I rejoice, not that ye were made sorry, but that ye sorrowed to repentance: for ye were made sorry after a godly manner, that ye might receive damage by us in nothing. For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death.
For behold this selfsame thing, that ye sorrowed after a godly sort, what carefulness it wrought in you, yea, what clearing of yourselves, yea, what indignation, yea, what fear, yea, what vehement desire, yea, what zeal, yea, what revenge! In all things ye have approved yourselves to be clear in this matter.”
2 Corinthians 7:8-11
It’s a strange perspective we have , we are viewing the times these men were living in and writing letters to groups of believers. To see both of the Corinthians letters at the same time gives a perspective that’s uniques seeing both the repentance and remission of sins
a Paul admitting that even he an apostle was in tears as he wrote then the first harsher letter there’s always love and mercy found somewhere going together with the repentance
and the second letter later is sent to reconcile his anger and rebuke to them in the first , to the mercy he was revealing in the second
a sort of first letter to the Corinthians
“For I verily, as absent in body, but present in spirit, have judged already, as though I were present, concerning him that hath so done this deed, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ, to deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus. Your glorying is not good. Know ye not that a little leaven leaveneth the whole lump? Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us:”
1 Corinthians 5:3-7 KJV
but second letter which references the matter again the apostle still considering the matter grievously writes
“For out of much affliction and anguish of heart I wrote unto you with many tears; not that ye should be grieved, but that ye might know the love which I have more abundantly unto you.
Sufficient to such a man is this punishment, which was inflicted of many. So that contrariwise ye ought rather to forgive him, and comfort him, lest perhaps such a one should be swallowed up with overmuch sorrow. Wherefore I beseech you that ye would confirm your love toward him.
For to this end also did I write, that I might know the proof of you, whether ye be obedient in all things.”
2 Corinthians 2:4, 6-9 KJV
still speaking of the matter
“For though I made you sorry with a letter, I do not repent, though I did repent: for I perceive that the same epistle hath made you sorry, though it were but for a season. Now I rejoice, not that ye were made sorry, but that ye sorrowed to repentance: for ye were made sorry after a godly manner, that ye might receive damage by us in nothing. For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death.
For behold this selfsame thing, that ye sorrowed after a godly sort, what carefulness it wrought in you, yea, what clearing of yourselves, yea, what indignation, yea, what fear, yea, what vehement desire, yea, what zeal, yea, what revenge! In all things ye have approved yourselves to be clear in this matter.”
2 Corinthians 7:8-11
It’s a strange perspective we have , we are viewing the times these men were living in and writing letters to groups of believers. To see both of the Corinthians letters at the same time gives a perspective that’s uniques seeing both the repentance and remission of sins
a Paul admitting that even he an apostle was in tears as he wrote then the first harsher letter there’s always love and mercy found somewhere going together with the repentance
-
1
- Show all
Stay in your believe system.
We can be glad that to judge us is not in man hand but in the Lords hand.
I often enough told you why I cant agree with this man made teaching.
Taking verses put of the context and creating from them a doctrine is not new.
And this has nothing to do with my personal expieriences.
We can be glad that to judge us is not in man hand but in the Lords hand.
I often enough told you why I cant agree with this man made teaching.
Taking verses put of the context and creating from them a doctrine is not new.
And this has nothing to do with my personal expieriences.