The Problem With Grace
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If one believes Jesus and has faith that His atonement pays the penalty for their sins they can know they are in a state of salvation.. It's Faith / Trust in God.. Without Faith a person cannot please God.. Salvation is easy.. His yoke is lite.. Believe Him, Trust Him.. All else is just our dirty rags attemps at rightiousness..
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I'm going to assume that you're 50-60 years old and you've done a couple of Salvation discussions in your life.
I am also 50 years old and i've also done a couple of Salvation discussions in my life.
The questions that the OP is asking are deep questions that require search and may be able to find the answers in another denomination, not the Protestant denomination.
I am also 50 years old and i've also done a couple of Salvation discussions in my life.
The questions that the OP is asking are deep questions that require search and may be able to find the answers in another denomination, not the Protestant denomination.
God being the creator of us all, has the choice, not us the people that have taken that over, and made it their/our own doctrines
You have believed God, Amen to that, Amen. Now you are seeing misdoctrination of the truth given you.
God does look for repentance from us the people
As John the Baptist points out
Matthew 3:7-11
King James Version
7 But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees come to his baptism, he said unto them, O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come?
8 Bring forth therefore fruits meet for repentance:
9 And think not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, that God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham.
10 And now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees: therefore every tree which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance. but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:
Love of God words through his children that are in belief, his love and mercy of Son for them, works through them. A tree is always identified by its fruit always. You have gotten a wax tree bite, that appeared good and is not good, these trees will be cut off from God by God period.
As, we the people are called to not pull the tares, it will harm the wheat, let both grow together until the harvest. So, therefore be sure it is you that believe God personally and know that no wrong will enter Bring forth therefore fruits meet for repentance: between God and you
I see you are real, yet as those believing a lie from people the religion of this world, that God is unfair and will just let a person in that in truth does not believe God, even though claims they do are deceived and do not know and are not afraid of the allegory of Matt 18:24-35
Matthew 7:22-24
King James Version
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
24 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:
Just so you know, people do not tell the truth of who God actually is. These evil doers are using grace for their escape and will not escape, these, that are doing others wrong on purpose and acting as if are not
Will not get in. God is good all the time as good is God all the time
you know in you, as I see this in you, you cannot harm another person from you can you>?
That is what God wants for us all to be new and not harm others too. Even though there are those that harm others, even in Churches of this earth we are in today. I do not go to Church here on earth myself (Hebrews 8:1-4) is why. Seeing the Evil that is prescribed to evil flesh people to get away with evil and hide, using church gathering as if are good. When the /diagnosis one needs is, Chemo therapy to drive out their self evil in them. and turn to God in belief to God by Son for them, the tis risen where new life is given and received
Which has been done for you in you, by God for you. The evil is attacking you as if God is not any good, yet you know God is good the one and only one, that you chose to believe in. Stand in believe to God that God is fair and see those the people that are claiming him as not fair. Then see to remain harmless as a dove in the process of seeing this truth of others as you are now seeing. Those that do wrong, know they are doing it and misusing the grace of God for self gain. These people of that choice will not enter God's Heaven ever.
Thank you
You have believed God, Amen to that, Amen. Now you are seeing misdoctrination of the truth given you.
God does look for repentance from us the people
As John the Baptist points out
Matthew 3:7-11
King James Version
7 But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees come to his baptism, he said unto them, O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come?
8 Bring forth therefore fruits meet for repentance:
9 And think not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, that God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham.
10 And now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees: therefore every tree which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance. but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:
Love of God words through his children that are in belief, his love and mercy of Son for them, works through them. A tree is always identified by its fruit always. You have gotten a wax tree bite, that appeared good and is not good, these trees will be cut off from God by God period.
As, we the people are called to not pull the tares, it will harm the wheat, let both grow together until the harvest. So, therefore be sure it is you that believe God personally and know that no wrong will enter Bring forth therefore fruits meet for repentance: between God and you
I see you are real, yet as those believing a lie from people the religion of this world, that God is unfair and will just let a person in that in truth does not believe God, even though claims they do are deceived and do not know and are not afraid of the allegory of Matt 18:24-35
Matthew 7:22-24
King James Version
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
24 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:
Just so you know, people do not tell the truth of who God actually is. These evil doers are using grace for their escape and will not escape, these, that are doing others wrong on purpose and acting as if are not
Will not get in. God is good all the time as good is God all the time
you know in you, as I see this in you, you cannot harm another person from you can you>?
That is what God wants for us all to be new and not harm others too. Even though there are those that harm others, even in Churches of this earth we are in today. I do not go to Church here on earth myself (Hebrews 8:1-4) is why. Seeing the Evil that is prescribed to evil flesh people to get away with evil and hide, using church gathering as if are good. When the /diagnosis one needs is, Chemo therapy to drive out their self evil in them. and turn to God in belief to God by Son for them, the tis risen where new life is given and received
Which has been done for you in you, by God for you. The evil is attacking you as if God is not any good, yet you know God is good the one and only one, that you chose to believe in. Stand in believe to God that God is fair and see those the people that are claiming him as not fair. Then see to remain harmless as a dove in the process of seeing this truth of others as you are now seeing. Those that do wrong, know they are doing it and misusing the grace of God for self gain. These people of that choice will not enter God's Heaven ever.
Thank you
As @SomeDisciple pointed out, "do they not?"
But since you seem to claim this is NOT the case, here is something from the horse's mouth:
All im gonna say is, why would you push back against the idea that EVERYONE can repent? I promise you, orthodox, protestant, catholic, even cults all believe this. Its so central to the Bible, you cant miss it.
How about you answer the OPs question and tell us.
But since you seem to claim this is NOT the case, here is something from the horse's mouth:
All im gonna say is, why would you push back against the idea that EVERYONE can repent? I promise you, orthodox, protestant, catholic, even cults all believe this. Its so central to the Bible, you cant miss it.
How about you answer the OPs question and tell us.
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Of course not. In terms of understanding Salvation from a East Perspective and West Perspective it's like North Pole and South Pole.
The whole understanding of Salvation in the Eastern Church is understood as the Theology of Theosis which in plain English means that nobody knows where anyone is destined to be (Heaven or Hell).
So, by reading the OP, who to me looks like she's tired with the answers she's been getting from the Protestant Churches her whole life, she is looking for other answers.
So, Theosis answers that.
The whole understanding of Salvation in the Eastern Church is understood as the Theology of Theosis which in plain English means that nobody knows where anyone is destined to be (Heaven or Hell).
So, by reading the OP, who to me looks like she's tired with the answers she's been getting from the Protestant Churches her whole life, she is looking for other answers.
So, Theosis answers that.
With that said ^
It's clear to me that many in the church do not understand "grace". Grace is a word of art that has many meanings. Believers in the U.S. read "grace" and always insert "unmerited favor". That's just one of the meanings of the word. It's no surprise that people in the U.S. have difficulty understanding a word traditionally ensconced in kingdom language.
Perhaps I'll write about it soon.
It's clear to me that many in the church do not understand "grace". Grace is a word of art that has many meanings. Believers in the U.S. read "grace" and always insert "unmerited favor". That's just one of the meanings of the word. It's no surprise that people in the U.S. have difficulty understanding a word traditionally ensconced in kingdom language.
Perhaps I'll write about it soon.
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I understand what you are saying as there are people who seem so desensitised to sin that they commit atrocities.
I can only say from personal experiences. I was sinned against terribly in many ways. But I forgave those who sinned against me . This didn’t take away the fact that their act was morally wrong. I do therefore believe that justice would have come to them in one form or another. That there would be consequences for their actions. But in judging others we are also judging ourselves because Christ said he who is without sin cast the first stone implying that we are all hypocrites and sinners. Judging others sins while we have had those same sins. We judge because we know Heaven is our Home. We know the God who loves us and we want to please him in everything that we do in Giving to charity ,caring for those in need, being long-suffering like Christ was, and following and Obeying the Truth. But while the spirit is willing , the flesh is weak and corrupt. We descend from adam and eve who sinned in the garden passing the curse of sin to all mankind which Christ’s blood was to free us from this curse in death. In death all will suffer a loss. And in life all will suffer some consequences for their sins. Even in darkness God’s love and light can be found. ‘I loved you at your darkest’ — Romans.
Regarding your disagreement with unmerited Grace this is correct in favour of God’s justice and Wrath because God is not just a God of Grace he is a God of Wrath too. Therefore any judgement he has upon a sinner will send a sinner to be departed from him into hell, if he does not have a right standing and correct relationship with Jesus he would have missed his moment with Jesus and be cast away from his presence. No one wishes upon even their worst enemy to suffer the horrible torments and terrors of hell. There is much debate as to the levels of heaven and hell as well. Many say there are lower levels in heaven and higher levels in Hell but either way being without God the source of Love Joy justice peace and Heaven where animals will all be at rest, and we will be like the Angels, the children of the Lord, for all eternity would be a very painful experience to be without this forever.
I can only say from personal experiences. I was sinned against terribly in many ways. But I forgave those who sinned against me . This didn’t take away the fact that their act was morally wrong. I do therefore believe that justice would have come to them in one form or another. That there would be consequences for their actions. But in judging others we are also judging ourselves because Christ said he who is without sin cast the first stone implying that we are all hypocrites and sinners. Judging others sins while we have had those same sins. We judge because we know Heaven is our Home. We know the God who loves us and we want to please him in everything that we do in Giving to charity ,caring for those in need, being long-suffering like Christ was, and following and Obeying the Truth. But while the spirit is willing , the flesh is weak and corrupt. We descend from adam and eve who sinned in the garden passing the curse of sin to all mankind which Christ’s blood was to free us from this curse in death. In death all will suffer a loss. And in life all will suffer some consequences for their sins. Even in darkness God’s love and light can be found. ‘I loved you at your darkest’ — Romans.
Regarding your disagreement with unmerited Grace this is correct in favour of God’s justice and Wrath because God is not just a God of Grace he is a God of Wrath too. Therefore any judgement he has upon a sinner will send a sinner to be departed from him into hell, if he does not have a right standing and correct relationship with Jesus he would have missed his moment with Jesus and be cast away from his presence. No one wishes upon even their worst enemy to suffer the horrible torments and terrors of hell. There is much debate as to the levels of heaven and hell as well. Many say there are lower levels in heaven and higher levels in Hell but either way being without God the source of Love Joy justice peace and Heaven where animals will all be at rest, and we will be like the Angels, the children of the Lord, for all eternity would be a very painful experience to be without this forever.
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Ironically, it is because the church has, by and large, rejected certain graces from God that they keep wrangling over the subject of "grace". 
(That was funnier in my head, I am sure.)
-Aaron56
(That was funnier in my head, I am sure.)
-Aaron56
The OP is asking the right questions, questions that i asked too when i was young so i'm offering a different interpretation for her since she is asking these questions.
You hit the nail on the head with explaining what Grace means and How it's interpreted in US culture of other cultures, but in no way i can condemn someone to Hell or give them a ticket to Heaven because i am just another soul in year 2024, and this is also compatible with my theology from the Church.
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