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PaulThomson

Well-known member
#41
Oct 29, 2023
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#41
SteveEpperson said:
A few people have mentioned that on this thread. I have been to many churches in my area, trying to find the right one. I get a chilly reception at each one, maybe because I show up without a well-manicured wife, a nice car, a couple of kids, and a huge check in hand.

When my wife left me six years ago for a "better Christian man" --with more money, of course-- I lost my wife, my son, my business, and my house. They set out to destroy me at every turn.

I would love to move somewhere else for a fresh start, but my son lives close by with his mom and "Mister Wonderful."

Magenta, the fact that you are reading this means that you have shown more Christian love and concern in two minutes than any pastor has for more than six years. I pray that one day, I will find a church full of Magentas who truly care for one another.

Until then, I will, without forsaking the assembly, muddle through on my own under the close watch of my Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ. :)
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Is there only one church near you that has some Bible-respecting, Holy Sprit led, Christ-centred, love practising people in it? I suggest you look hard for some of these in your church, and if there aren't any, try finding them in another church.... oh... and make sure you behave as one yourself.

Grace and peace.
 
Evmur

Evmur

Well-known member
#42
Feb 28, 2021
5,219
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London
christianchat.com
#42
Nehemiah6 said:
Now that you have clarified things, this is a very sad situation which could have easily been avoided, had the church leadership decided to simply follow the NT patter established by God. Here are my observations (and you need not respond):

1. God never intended one man to be "the pastor" therefore He gave the churches a plurality of elders, and one was not above the others. The Bible calls that " a presbytery" since prebuteros is the word for elder. Even Presbyterian churches do not have this as you would expect. And most evangelical churches simply ignore this.

2. One man could not possibly "shepherd" 10, 000. And even if there were only 57 members, you would need at least 5-7 pastor/elders to really provide actual spiritual guidance on a personal basis. Some would be self-supporting while others may need compensation for their efforts (which is also biblical).

3. Any church which shuns sound Bible doctrine should be left alone. No one can fix that problem.

4. If a man says that he is "too busy" (probably with administrative business) then he has failed already. He should be politely asked to leave. Paul was never "too busy" even though he was a very busy apostle. He was ministering to individuals as well as congregations.

5. Churches mistakenly think that "the pastor" should be totally focused on preaching from the pulpit. That is not correct. God has given various spiritual gifts and if there were several men in leadership one could have the gift of evangelism, another the gift of teaching, another the gift of oversight called "government", and so on. Then one man would not be the only minister of the Word. Elders are supposed to be "apt to teach" in general.

6. A "corporate" structure is not the same as a biblical structure. Any person should be able to pick up the phone and call one of the elders and ask for a face-to-face meeting if that is necessary. And the response should be almost immediate if the structure is biblical.
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well I thought that was excellent
 
p_rehbein

p_rehbein

Senior Member
#47
Sep 4, 2013
30,672
6,862
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#47
Cameron143 said:
Perhaps he should try singing in jail. I heard Paul got early release this way.
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I suspect, but do not know for sure it was because he sang like I do. If I was in jail and started singing praises, the jailers would quickly unlock the door and let me free, if for no other reason than to give their ears some relief...
 
Cameron143

Cameron143

Well-known member
#48
Mar 1, 2022
19,028
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#48
p_rehbein said:
I suspect, but do not know for sure it was because he sang like I do. If I was in jail and started singing praises, the jailers would quickly unlock the door and let me free, if for no other reason than to give their ears some relief...
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I was given the first solow at my church.
 
SteveEpperson

SteveEpperson

Junior Member
#50
May 12, 2018
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#50
Magenta said:
Mennonite church
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I'm not familiar with the Mennonites, but from what I know, they have the same religious roots as the Amish but not as strict. My quest for purity and Godliness these past several years has been a rocky one. You may be on to something here.
 
SteveEpperson

SteveEpperson

Junior Member
#51
May 12, 2018
552
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#51
timemeddler said:
how awful
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Thanks, but I didn't intend to gain sympathy for my plight with this thread. I just know there are a lot of hurting Christian men and women out there who need close discipleship, not more social media widgets. :)
 
SteveEpperson

SteveEpperson

Junior Member
#52
May 12, 2018
552
221
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#52
Nehemiah6 said:
Now that you have clarified things, this is a very sad situation which could have easily been avoided, had the church leadership decided to simply follow the NT patter established by God. Here are my observations (and you need not respond):
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I'll respond briefly by saying I appreciate such a well-thought-out response. With each point you mentioned, I believe we can turn things around by using what we have already.

I listen almost exclusively to one excellent preacher on YouTube that resonnates with my current spiritual state. I also go to a church where they happen to have an excellent worship team.

What if we were to have online preaching only--with sermons exclusively from the likes of Spurgeon, McArthur, Graham, Sproul, and Tozer-- coupled with smaller buildings for the sole purpose of corporate worship? Small groups could meet in homes like many churches do now. Evangelism and discipleship would be the responsibility of each small group. With all the online apps and widgets available now, management for all cities throughout a country (i.e., the US or Canada) could be managed by one (or a few) denominational headquarters, cutting out a lot of fat.

You would have a bottom-up church family, where everyone is included, rather than the top-down hierarchy we've had for the past 2,000 years.
 
SteveEpperson

SteveEpperson

Junior Member
#53
May 12, 2018
552
221
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#53
PaulThomson said:
Is there only one church near you that has some Bible-respecting, Holy Sprit led, Christ-centred, love practising people in it? I suggest you look hard for some of these in your church, and if there aren't any, try finding them in another church.... oh... and make sure you behave as one yourself.
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That's not the point I was trying to make. Of course, most churches are what you would describe as having loving, Christ-centered, Spirit-filled people in it. I wasn't trying to say there wasn't any in my area.

Unfortunately, by way of procedure, we have taken any small connection to each other we once had and watered it down further into yet another social media event.

Check out the response I gave to Nehemiah6 above. I think we could integrate technology, but the way the churches are attempting to do it now is truly a failure and is sending people running for the exits. :)
 
SteveEpperson

SteveEpperson

Junior Member
#54
May 12, 2018
552
221
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#54
p_rehbein said:
Most often, in the Congregations I have been a part of, the Pastor, and/or Board Members ask persons if they would agree to serve in some capacity to benefit the Congregation. This is not an unusual thing. Nor does it mean they are becoming a McDonalds.
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You seem to miss the point of the story, and as the author, I take responsibility for that. Let me clarify.

The McDonald's analogy shows that many churches are trying to attract younger people with websites, apps, and widgets, such as QR codes. That's all okay, but lately, I'm seeing a shift toward using these tech tools as yet another gatekeeper to keep congregants at arms-length.

On the one hand, your pastor is pleading with you to volunteer to be an usher, but on the other hand, he is unwilling to delve into the messy parts of your life. While he understandably may not have time, how far down the ladder of the church hierarchy does one need to go to find a spiritual mentor or simply to find someone to discuss spiritual matters?

I find it very telling how many people spend more than a few hours a week on this site. I challenge you to find someone—especially at the top of your church's hierarchal pyramid—who will match the time you receive from others on this site talking about spiritual matters. :)
 
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