God and Time

[Pilgrimshope]

Well, to answer this question accurately we need to again, understand how Time works which would then make us ask the question better, or more accurately.
But, in general i do agree with most of your post prior to this one, despite some minor misunderstandings there in regards to a videogame which was one example from our POV to show Pre-Determination while allowing for limited free-will as well as emotions like anger, joy and peace during the journey.

It’s a construct in the beginning what man calls time is the result of the universe God created and set in motion that works like a clock the earth rotates around the sun perfectly and there is day and night the first day “ the beginning of time “ even the comets travel the universe and reappear at the calculated “time “

every single concept mankind has of time is based upon the functions of the universe God created nd set into motion the motion is time

 

[Cameron143]

I miss when time used to tick. I'm OK that it doesn't tock anymore.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

I miss when time used to tick. I'm OK that it doesn't tock anymore.

For some reason I just flashed back to the happy days song in my head one two theee a clock four a clock rock lol

 

[Cameron143]

For some reason I just flashed back to the happy days song in my head one two theee a clock four a clock rock lol

I miss the Fonz too.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

I miss the Fonz too.

I thought you were Arthur fonzirelli when i said that it was a test “ eyyy”

 

[Cameron143]

I thought you were Arthur fonzirelli when i said that it was a test “ eyyy”

I was more like Lenny and Squiggy. But I would like to be able to hit a jukebox and have a song come on.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

I was more like Lenny and Squiggy. But I would like to be able to hit a jukebox and have a song come on.

Lol Lenny and squiggly huh yeah I had a Fonzie hairdo but lacked the fonzi coolness awesome sideburns bit lol would have been nice to have his magic touch and finger snaps. I agree

 

[posthuman]

How are you proving it is idiomatic rather than literal? Maybe you just don't like what it says, so you are denoting it as idiomatic to escape taking in its obvious literal sense. Why do you feel it is necessary to denote it as idiomatic?

what i mean is that just as God calls Himself Aleph-Tav, Alpha-Omega, The Beginning and The End, this is not "enclosing Himself in time" by declaring for all conceivable time He is God, as though time is bigger or even equal to Him.

in exactly the same way, the saying "from everlasting to everlasting" is idiomatic in the sense that it is negative infinity to positive infinity - - an idefinable length. it is not a definite period; it is not a definition of "limits" on God; the glory of God demands no other interpretation can be correct - - the sense is that at the absolute limits of time and space, God is still just as much infinitely more.

these sayings are describing God as greater than time, not circumscribed by time. ALWAYS take the highest possible view of God, then discard it for whatever view you can find that is even higher. you will never be incorrect by giving God too much glory, but the opposite case is immediately falsified by honor.

God is great. if I need to "prove" that to you, you are browsing the wrong website.

 

[PaulThomson]

what i mean is that just as God calls Himself Aleph-Tav, Alpha-Omega, The Beginning and The End, this is not "enclosing Himself in time" by declaring for all conceivable time He is God, as though time is bigger or even equal to Him.

in exactly the same way, the saying "from everlasting to everlasting" is idiomatic in the sense that it is negative infinity to positive infinity - - an idefinable length. it is not a definite period; it is not a definition of "limits" on God; the glory of God demands no other interpretation can be correct - - the sense is that at the absolute limits of time and space, God is still just as much infinitely more.

these sayings are describing God as greater than time, not circumscribed by time. ALWAYS take the highest possible view of God, then discard it for whatever view you can find that is even higher. you will never be incorrect by giving God too much glory, but the opposite case is immediately falsified by honor.

God is great. if I need to "prove" that to you, you are browsing the wrong website.

Of course God is greater than time. He is obviously greater/more that any one of His attributes, including His temporality.

"The alpha and omega" is equivalent to "the beginning and the end' and the "author and finisher" in relation to some work.
From Everlasting to everlasting is is not a claim to authorship of some work, but to ever-existence.

 

[PaulThomson]

our existence isn't constrained to time and space. we were chosen in Him before those things, and when the whole world has passed away, we will be with Him.

a simple, fundamental proof that the spiritual realm exists is that our consciousness can't be explained by the physical brain, and the speed of thought is greater than thecspeed of its synapses.

if o just say "the alphabet song" you have comprehended the whole thing far quicker than you can recite it, even internally. theind inhabits the brain; it isn't the brain - and the ability to communicate to other minds finds limits in the physical brain, not inherent to the mind.

ergo..

Our existence will always be within time and space. We will have physical immortal bodies of flesh and bone and inhabit a physical new creation. But we will also be partly non-physical spirit.

How can we be with Him if there is no time to BE in; and no space within which to be WITH Him? That seems logically incoherent.

Did someone deny that the spiritual realm exists? I think some of us are denying that the spiritual realm needs to be timeless and spaceless, and scripture, in fact, describes it as experiencing sequential events (i.e. as temporal) and having length, breadth, height and depth (i.e. as spatial).

 

[PaulThomson]

Well, to answer this question accurately we need to again, understand how Time works which would then make us ask the question better, or more accurately.

What is complicated about how time works? Different changes in our external and internal environments occur at different rates. Our sense of time is a recognition of before and after states and clocks and regular time intervals allows us to compare the relative rates of different changes from before to after states.

 

[Eli1]

It’s a construct in the beginning what man calls time is the result of the universe God created and set in motion that works like a clock the earth rotates around the sun perfectly and there is day and night the first day “ the beginning of time “ even the comets travel the universe and reappear at the calculated “time “

every single concept mankind has of time is based upon the functions of the universe God created nd set into motion the motion is time

What is complicated about how time works? Different changes in our external and internal environments occur at different rates. Our sense of time is a recognition of before and after states and clocks and regular time intervals allows us to compare the relative rates of different changes from before to after states.

It's not very fun when we are repeating the same things over and over.
Nobody knows what Time is at the fundamental level of reality.
The general consensus is that Time+Space was created at the beginning, so we can't really say that Time existed before and we will never have any evidence for that.
Also, despite our best understanding of physics now, we can't say for sure if Time is real or if we've made it up in our minds.

What is time? | Live Science

 

[Pilgrimshope]

It's not very fun when we are repeating the same things over and over.
Nobody knows what Time is at the fundamental level of reality.
The general consensus is that Time+Space was created at the beginning, so we can't really say that Time existed before and we will never have any evidence for that.
Also, despite our best understanding of physics now, we can't say for sure if Time is real or if we've made it up in our minds.

What is time? | Live Science

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In a Bible discussion forum your proof is this link to the marvels of scientific articles written by some feller who thinks he’s answered the riddle of time ? 😅

what is time if the universe didn’t exist as it does ?

 

[Eli1]

In a Bible discussion forum your proof is this link to the marvels of scientific articles written by some feller who thinks he’s answered the riddle of time ? 😅

what is time if the universe didn’t exist as it does ?

In a Bible discussion forum we are talking about technical questions not found in the Bible and by your response i can tell that you're very blue-pilled. I wish i was like you, but unfortunately i'm not.

 

[Chaps]

our existence isn't constrained to time and space. we were chosen in Him before those things, and when the whole world has passed away, we will be with Him.

a simple, fundamental proof that the spiritual realm exists is that our consciousness can't be explained by the physical brain, and the speed of thought is greater than thecspeed of its synapses.

if o just say "the alphabet song" you have comprehended the whole thing far quicker than you can recite it, even internally. theind inhabits the brain; it isn't the brain - and the ability to communicate to other minds finds limits in the physical brain, not inherent to the mind.

ergo..

Not sure I understand what you are saying. I agree we have a spirit, and God is Spirit. Thus, our spiritual beings would also be derived from His being. If our beings are entirely divorced from God…spiritual, physical, intellectual, etc, then we dont live and move and have our beings in Him, but independent of Him. For instance, rationality is not something we “possess.” It is a gift and the very presence of rationality is a reflection of God’s being. The same is true with our spirit’s our emotions and everything we are. Even creation around us is a reflection of the mind and being of God. Thus, we shouldn’t look at a tree as an ontologically independent entity. It‘s existance is a reflection of the mind and power of God which is being held together by the Word of God in every moment. Thus, when you study a tree, or gravity or any other thing, you are exploring the mind and power of God. This is how early scientists understood their research. Unfortunately, the enlightenment brought about new philosophical constructs that posed that creation and humanity were ontologically independent of God. This pushed God off into the distance as a separate being that may or may not be involved with His creation. Thus, the rise of Deism and secularism. IMO, not only is secularism an ill-conceived way of viewing reality, but it is inherently religious. As proponents of Radical Orthodoxy put it, secularism is a “positively constructed ideology.” There is no such thing as the secular. To suggest as much is to make a religious claim…one I do not believe early philosophers or Christian theologians accepted.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

In a Bible discussion forum we are talking about technical questions not found in the Bible and by your response i can tell that you're very blue-pilled. I wish i was like you, but unfortunately i'm not.

Yeah but a scientific article is your position and everyone is talking about the relation of God and time in a Bible discussion forum ?

It’s no skin off my neck or anything but what does science say about creation ? The Big Bang ? Evolution of man from sludge after all that ?

It seems like some of science first poses a question that is asking “ if the Bible isn’t true how did creation happen ? “ if there’s no God then it must have been a random explosion in space and time which is eternal what those Bible folk call “ God “ that actually just randomly over billions and billions of years evolved naturally into the universe we know

stars created from gasses then dying in violent explosions over billions of years because time is of course the real creator and what’s actually eternal

science creates a narrative that is not biblical at all is my point . But this is a public forum I was just trying to be funny when I said that lol see if you had a sense of humor ot doesn’t play well on text lol

theres a lot of good science but a lot of bad science is my point “time is eternal “ is one of the concepts that bears up the fallacy of a universe that evolved randomly and a people that mutated randomly over because of time ….

the Bible says God created all things and was before all things and by him do all things exist and by him we’re all things created according to his words spoken and written and given to mankind to believe

there’s always another explaination since Eden often science is that other explaination but I’m sorry because I actually just was trying to poke you and see if you would respond with humor this got way out of hand friend lol I’ve now rambled along too far

 

[Eli1]

Yeah but a scientific article is your position and everyone is talking about the relation of God and time in a Bible discussion forum ?

Because in the Bible forum we are talking about our experience of Time while we are alive.

It’s no skin off my neck or anything but what does science say about creation ? The Big Bang ? Evolution of man from sludge after all that ?

Science says a lot of things that support the Bible but i guess that's not your cup of tea.

 

[Chaps]

Thanks, Len. I appreciate your comments. I would just challenge the assertion that God is “bound” by his creations. If God creates something as an extension of himself, those things reflect his qualities. Thus, they are not independent of Him. For instance, John 1 informs us that the Logos created all things. Genesis reveals that out of darkness and chaos, God brought order, beauty and purpose. These things are a reflection of the Logos, not simply independent realities. What I mean by that is, when God created something “good” it reflected His character, personality, brilliance and so forth. LIkewise, when he created man, he created him “in his image.” So, while God may not be “bound” by the law of gravity that he created, the laws of the universe reflect order in contrast to chaos. God is a God of order and therefore that order is an extension of himself. He is not “bound” by order, he is, in a sense, order.

I think this is also reflected in the NT when Paul writes,

For God, who said, “let light shine out of darkness,“ has shone in our hearts to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ. - 2 Cor. 4:6

In the same way that the Word spoke to the darkness to bring, order, beauty and light in creation in Genesis 1, so Christ, the Word of God, speaks into our lives of darkness and chaos to bring light, order and beauty. Thus, when God redeems us, he is not merely making us new (as he did his creation), but he is injecting his light, goodness and order into our life through the word of Christ. (As a side note, I would also say this is an interesting appeal to Christian baptism. Just as God created the world through the Spirit, the Word and the waters, so the Christian is reborn through Spirit, Word and water). Thus, we as his new creation, are an extension of himself into our lives. So, this creation is not something independent of God that he is outside of and not “bound” by but is a reflection of who he is both in creation and within the life of the redeemed.

Anyway, I just think we shouldn’t look at the created world or the recreated Christian as some work of God that he has done as a painter paints a painting. Rather, these things reflect the presence of the very mind and Spirit of God. To suggest he is bound by these things is inaccurate. He IS these things…and when his presence comes to a dark, chaotic world or a dark chaotic life…the reflect Him and not just one of his acts.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Because in the Bible forum we are talking about our experience of Time while we are alive.



Science says a lot of things that support the Bible but i guess that's not your cup of tea.

Yes I said tbat there’s a lot of good science but that there’s also a lot of bad science

my point is I think time bieng eternal is not good science but again it’s just my own opinion I don’t want to seem like I’m attacking what you said . But I’m not anti science I’m anti unbiblical science and I feel personally time isnt where God came from but the eternal God created time for mankind to grasp the rewards of eternity with him outside of that construct and blinder

time leads to death really as it passes , eternity never passes it remains there is no yesterday no tomorrow there there’s no need for a concept of time expiring it’s a construct from the first creation

“And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭21:4‬ ‭KJV‬‬

 

[Eli1]

Yes I said tbat there’s a lot of good science but that there’s also a lot of bad science

my point is I think time bieng eternal is not good science but again it’s just my own opinion I don’t want to seem like I’m attacking what you said . But I’m not anti science I’m anti unbiblical science and I feel personally time isnt where God came from but the eternal God created time for mankind to grasp the rewards of eternity with him outside of that construct and blinder

time leads to death really as it passes , eternity never passes it remains there is no yesterday no tomorrow there there’s no need for a concept of time expiring it’s a construct from the first creation

“And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭21:4‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Yes, i agree with you here and yes i realize that most people (myself included) don't read what's been said in a topic already but i am with you here.
I don't think Time is eternal, and most of science thinks that Time is not eternal either.
The person who created this topic thinks that Time is eternal though.
At the end of the day nobody knows, but best guess according to science and logic is that Time is not eternal. Time was created at Creation.