Salvation is a Free Gift.
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We need to clarify exactly what we mean when we say "Do you see how when we’re saying “ I’m saved by grace it doesn’t matter what I do “
What do you think I mean by this? First you'll have to show me where I said “ I’m saved by grace it doesn’t matter what I do “. I'd NEVER say that and do not believe it at all, but it does seem to highlight a huge difference in how we look at things. The way you're saying this is like I'm saying, "once I'm saved I can sin away". That is garbage can can only come for someone who has no idea what the power of God does to a man when we are born again. This argument completely ignores the power of God, completely.
Anyone that KNOWS God in truth, that has been resurrected in spirit and reconciled to His Spirit, KNOWS this isn't possible. However I get the argument, and this is not what I was saying at all and really has nothing to do with the point I was making. If I wanted to put it in those words it would be the other way. "No matter what I do, I can never save my self. It's only a gift by His grace."
I also notice you were doing a lot of teaching, but didn't even answer one of my questions. You also missed my point completely. If you disagree then you must be saying we do get some credit for our salvation. Is that what you believe? That it take us doing something in concordance with God to be saved? That's what the point I was making, that it's 0% us and 100% God. You disagree with this?
What do you think I mean by this? First you'll have to show me where I said “ I’m saved by grace it doesn’t matter what I do “. I'd NEVER say that and do not believe it at all, but it does seem to highlight a huge difference in how we look at things. The way you're saying this is like I'm saying, "once I'm saved I can sin away". That is garbage can can only come for someone who has no idea what the power of God does to a man when we are born again. This argument completely ignores the power of God, completely.
Anyone that KNOWS God in truth, that has been resurrected in spirit and reconciled to His Spirit, KNOWS this isn't possible. However I get the argument, and this is not what I was saying at all and really has nothing to do with the point I was making. If I wanted to put it in those words it would be the other way. "No matter what I do, I can never save my self. It's only a gift by His grace."
I also notice you were doing a lot of teaching, but didn't even answer one of my questions. You also missed my point completely. If you disagree then you must be saying we do get some credit for our salvation. Is that what you believe? That it take us doing something in concordance with God to be saved? That's what the point I was making, that it's 0% us and 100% God. You disagree with this?
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I think you know my point already it’s why you avoided that one
My point is toyr talking about inheriting the eternal Kingdom of God and that’s why I originally quoted what Paul repeatedly wrote to the church
“Be ye therefore followers of God, as dear children; and walk in love, as Christ also hath loved us, and hath given himself for us an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweetsmelling savour. But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints; neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks. For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.
Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience. Be not ye therefore partakers with them.
Ephesians 5:1-7 KJV
“Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.”
Galatians 5:19-21 KJV
My point is simple just because Paul is telling them about an inheritance and god will bring it to pass doesn’t erase the other scriptures warnkng the church they have to act right or else they aren’t going to have the inheritance he’s telling them about earlier in the letters
paul is preaching repentance and also remission of sin not only remission of sin he’s preaching repentance and obedience to the Lord and warning believers to get right before it’s too late and they lose their rhier inheritance in the kingdom
which is eternal life in his eternal kingdom that new heaven and earth you referenced it’s going to be as they taught them and not so much as the latest revolutionary book tells us
“But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God;
Who will render to every man according to his deeds: to them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life: ( that’s the path )
but unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, ( that’s the other path ) of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;”
Romans 2:5-9 KJV
God can’t work with n is if we won’t hear what he’s saying see how this sounds terrifying to face God for every word and deed we do ?????
what if we believed the gospel before that ? Meankng the judges words ? So what if I look at the jidgement theough this faith ?
“Be ye therefore merciful, as your Father also is merciful. Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven: give, and it shall be given unto you; good measure, pressed down, and shaken together, and running over, shall be given into your bosom. For with the same measure that ye mete withal it shall be measured to you again.”
Luke 6:36-38 KJV
Now do you see how if I accept the lords judgement there it gives a whole new Hope and perception of judgement day that we all have to face ? Or this
“For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, And every tongue shall confess to God. So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God.”
Romans 14:11-12 KJV
what if I accepted this now ?
“If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.”
1 John 1:9 KJV
But what if instead I just say no no his word isnt for me that’s a work it’s not grace ?
If we believe the Lord we’re going to be saved if we reject him we’re not going to be saved
My point is toyr talking about inheriting the eternal Kingdom of God and that’s why I originally quoted what Paul repeatedly wrote to the church
“Be ye therefore followers of God, as dear children; and walk in love, as Christ also hath loved us, and hath given himself for us an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweetsmelling savour. But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints; neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks. For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.
Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience. Be not ye therefore partakers with them.
Ephesians 5:1-7 KJV
“Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.”
Galatians 5:19-21 KJV
My point is simple just because Paul is telling them about an inheritance and god will bring it to pass doesn’t erase the other scriptures warnkng the church they have to act right or else they aren’t going to have the inheritance he’s telling them about earlier in the letters
paul is preaching repentance and also remission of sin not only remission of sin he’s preaching repentance and obedience to the Lord and warning believers to get right before it’s too late and they lose their rhier inheritance in the kingdom
which is eternal life in his eternal kingdom that new heaven and earth you referenced it’s going to be as they taught them and not so much as the latest revolutionary book tells us
“But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God;
Who will render to every man according to his deeds: to them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life: ( that’s the path )
but unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, ( that’s the other path ) of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;”
Romans 2:5-9 KJV
God can’t work with n is if we won’t hear what he’s saying see how this sounds terrifying to face God for every word and deed we do ?????
what if we believed the gospel before that ? Meankng the judges words ? So what if I look at the jidgement theough this faith ?
“Be ye therefore merciful, as your Father also is merciful. Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven: give, and it shall be given unto you; good measure, pressed down, and shaken together, and running over, shall be given into your bosom. For with the same measure that ye mete withal it shall be measured to you again.”
Luke 6:36-38 KJV
Now do you see how if I accept the lords judgement there it gives a whole new Hope and perception of judgement day that we all have to face ? Or this
“For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, And every tongue shall confess to God. So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God.”
Romans 14:11-12 KJV
what if I accepted this now ?
“If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.”
1 John 1:9 KJV
But what if instead I just say no no his word isnt for me that’s a work it’s not grace ?
If we believe the Lord we’re going to be saved if we reject him we’re not going to be saved
We need to clarify exactly what we mean when we say "Do you see how when we’re saying “ I’m saved by grace it doesn’t matter what I do “
What do you think I mean by this?…..
i never said you said anything I was talking about the difference in Gods grace that teaches us to repent and live right and be zealous of Good works and the other grace I quoted there which I was actually talking about not something you said I was talking about this distortion of grace
“For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.”
Jude 1:4 KJV
That’s when we remove Gods teachings of repentance and right living in the gospel and then say its grace …..
was not accusing or putting anything on you I was asking which grace actually saves us ? The one that says “ it doesn’t matter what I do now I’m already saved “ ( lasciviousness a liscense to go on sinning without consequence ) or the grace that is found in the gospel which teaches us to repent and live right while we wait for Jesus ?
a there’s no reason for you to be offended I was asking about the scriptures I quoted to you
What do you think I mean by this?…..
i never said you said anything I was talking about the difference in Gods grace that teaches us to repent and live right and be zealous of Good works and the other grace I quoted there which I was actually talking about not something you said I was talking about this distortion of grace
“For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.”
Jude 1:4 KJV
That’s when we remove Gods teachings of repentance and right living in the gospel and then say its grace …..
was not accusing or putting anything on you I was asking which grace actually saves us ? The one that says “ it doesn’t matter what I do now I’m already saved “ ( lasciviousness a liscense to go on sinning without consequence ) or the grace that is found in the gospel which teaches us to repent and live right while we wait for Jesus ?
a there’s no reason for you to be offended I was asking about the scriptures I quoted to you
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Of course Judas Iscarioy was drawn to jesus by the Father. "No one could come to Jesus unless the Father who sent Him drew him", and Judas Iscariot came to Jesus many times.
Matt. 10:1; Mark 3:13-19; Like 6:12-- 16 And when He had called to Him His twelve disciples...
Matt. 17:19 Then came the disciples to Jesus apart, and said, "Why could we not cast it out?"
Matt. 26:49 And forthwith [Judas Iscariot] came to Jesus , and said, "hail Master," and kissed Him.
Luke 9:10 And the apostles, when they were retuned, told Him all that they had done...
Matt. 10:1; Mark 3:13-19; Like 6:12-- 16 And when He had called to Him His twelve disciples...
Matt. 17:19 Then came the disciples to Jesus apart, and said, "Why could we not cast it out?"
Matt. 26:49 And forthwith [Judas Iscariot] came to Jesus , and said, "hail Master," and kissed Him.
Luke 9:10 And the apostles, when they were retuned, told Him all that they had done...
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No, I am saying when the Holy Spirit comes on you, like Acts, Ephesians speak about.
44 While Peter was still saying these things, the Holy Spirit fell on all who heard the word
13 when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit
You yield yourself to God.
That's you letting God do His thing.
We see also in similar situation while Stephen is preaching instead of yielding they stopped their ears.
So it's a volunteer action to yield or stop your ears from hearing more.
44 While Peter was still saying these things, the Holy Spirit fell on all who heard the word
13 when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit
You yield yourself to God.
That's you letting God do His thing.
We see also in similar situation while Stephen is preaching instead of yielding they stopped their ears.
So it's a volunteer action to yield or stop your ears from hearing more.
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Sorry, but if all you are going to do is ignore my questions and explanations and not engage with them, but only post walls of texts out of context with no commentary explaining how you make them mean your doctrines, I am not interested in your uncommunicative ramblings. If you engage with what I took the time to explain, we can pick up the conversation. Otherwise you are just trolling, and not a good-faith interlocutor..
I hope this answers your question. I tried to synthesize your post down to what I believe is its essence. If I misunderstood you,
or missed something germane, please let me know and I'll try reply to it.
Our salvation and inheritance are not dependent upon us nor our actions, but totally upon Christ and what He achieved on our behalf.
Those God chose from before the foundation of the world for salvation will, beyond question, be covered by it. That is why we were told
that our inheritance is already reserved for us in heaven. Were that untrue, then God's promise of eternal life would be untrustworthy.
But we know it isn't untrustworthy. Why? Because God caused its requirements through Christ to be fully and completely satisfied.
So, there is nothing is left for us to do or to not do to obtain it but to rest in it. It is a done deal.
[Jhn 17:2 KJV]
2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.
[1Pe 1:4-5 KJV]
4 To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you,
5 Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.
[1Jo 2:25 KJV]
25 And this is the promise that he hath promised us, [even] eternal life.
[Jhn 17:3 KJV]
3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
or missed something germane, please let me know and I'll try reply to it.
Our salvation and inheritance are not dependent upon us nor our actions, but totally upon Christ and what He achieved on our behalf.
Those God chose from before the foundation of the world for salvation will, beyond question, be covered by it. That is why we were told
that our inheritance is already reserved for us in heaven. Were that untrue, then God's promise of eternal life would be untrustworthy.
But we know it isn't untrustworthy. Why? Because God caused its requirements through Christ to be fully and completely satisfied.
So, there is nothing is left for us to do or to not do to obtain it but to rest in it. It is a done deal.
[Jhn 17:2 KJV]
2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.
[1Pe 1:4-5 KJV]
4 To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you,
5 Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.
[1Jo 2:25 KJV]
25 And this is the promise that he hath promised us, [even] eternal life.
[Jhn 17:3 KJV]
3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
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Yes, when they all have the same basis. Unfortunately, I have other things to do besides spending all day going through your mass of verses, trying to figure out how each relates to the other, replying to each one - and then trying to tie them all together. Instead, I tried to get a feel for what you were driving at, which at its core, is the doing, or not the doing, of stuff to be saved or to remain saved, and I addressed that perspective as a whole. I showed that Christ alone is the Saviour, and therefore, the answer to sin no matter which ones are in view, nor how many there are, nor how they were committed. Do you think there is an answer to sin better than of, or besides, Christ, as-in by our own works or our actions? I guess the significance that the answer is Christ alone was lost on you.
If it wasn't, you would have simply said thank you. Do you grade replies by their volume rather than by what they say?
Geesh - you're pretty demanding for being the one who is asking all of the questions.
If it wasn't, you would have simply said thank you. Do you grade replies by their volume rather than by what they say?
Geesh - you're pretty demanding for being the one who is asking all of the questions.
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Demanding because i expect you in a conversation to actually adress what I responded to you with quotes from Paul’s letters explaining what I’m saying ? Rather than ignore it all and pluck a bunch of verses out of context ?
If this seems demanding to you we aren’t going to be able to have a conversation I’m still waiting for you to adress ll those things paup the apostle said instead of just telling me it’s not true and explaining things yourself
If this seems demanding to you we aren’t going to be able to have a conversation I’m still waiting for you to adress ll those things paup the apostle said instead of just telling me it’s not true and explaining things yourself
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