Salvation is a Free Gift.

[Pilgrimshope]

Yes, and a spiritually dead person cannot spiritually "heareth". Notice that only by Jesus "speak(ing)" specifically to someone are
they able to hear His words. He does not speak those words to everyone.

[Jhn 10:27 KJV] 27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

whats “ spiritually dead “ ?

“Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.”
‭‭Ezekiel‬ ‭18:4‬ ‭KJV‬‬


“Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.”
‭‭John‬ ‭5:24‬ ‭KJV‬‬

were all on death row while we’re on earth because our flesh is corrupt we’re bound to death by sin so we need the gospel …..to give us the promise of eternal life through repentance and remission of those sins which brought death in Christ Jesus by his sacrifice

“Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.”
‭‭John‬ ‭5:25‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish,

but have everlasting life.”
‭‭John‬ ‭3:16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

We have to hear the message and accept it before we can believe

“How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard?( can’t believe something we haven’t heard about ) ….So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭10:14, 17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

We’re all going to be judged by our deeds and die for sure because we’ve all sinned the gospel is given to save us from that impending fate death hangs over every mortal man evidenced by the frailty and infirmities of our temporary body of flesh not the death of our spirit

 

[Magenta]

@Magenta

Who is the “ye” in verse 13?

None of those verses say that any person who is not chosen/elect can choose to believe and thereby be saved. In fact they specifically speak to being chosen and predestined. So I am not sure what you are trying to prove. That should not be misconstrued to mean I do not understand the gospel. It means I don't understand how you fail to see how you have contradicted yourself. Even so, I can accept that you are sticking to your story. I do not have any ill will toward you.

 

[selahsays]

@Magenta

Snippet from a Spurgeon sermon.

But there are some who say, "It is hard for God to choose some and leave others." Now, I will ask you one question. Is there any of you here this morning who wishes to be holy, who wishes to be regenerate, to leave off sin and walk in holiness? "Yes, there is," says some one, "I do." Then God has elected you. But another says, "No; I don't want to be holy; I don't want to give up my lusts and my vices." Why should you grumble, then, that God has not elected you to it? For if you were elected you would not like it, according to your own confession. If God this morning had chosen you to holiness, you say you would not care for it. Do you not acknowledge that you prefer drunkenness to sobriety, dishonesty to honesty? You love this world's pleasures better than religion; then why should you grumble that God has not chosen you to religion? If you love religion, he has chosen you to it. If you desire it, he has chosen you to it. If you do not, what right have you to say that God ought to have given you what you do not wish for? Supposing I had in my hand something which you do not value, and I said I shall give it to such-and-such a person, you would have no right to grumble that I did not give to you. You could not be so foolish as to grumble that the other has got what you do not care about. According to your own confession, many of you do not want religion, do not want a new heart and a right spirit, do not want the forgiveness of sins, do not want sanctification; you do not want to be elected to these things: then why should you grumble? You count these things but as husks, and why should you complain of God who has given them to those whom he has chosen? If you believe them to be good and desire them, they are there for thee. God gives liberally to all those who desire; and first of all, he makes them desire, otherwise they never would. If you love these things, he has elected you to them, and you may have them; but if you do not, who are you that you should find fault with God, when it is your own desperate will that keeps you from loving these things—your own simple self that makes you hate them? Suppose a man in the street should say, "What a shame it is I cannot have a seat in the chapel to hear what this man has to say." And suppose he says, "I hate the preacher; I can't bear his doctrine; but still it's a shame I have not a seat." Would you expect a man to say so? No: you would at once say, "That man does not care for it. Why should he trouble himself about other people having what they value and he despises?" You do not like holiness, you do not like righteousness; if God has elected me to these things, has he hurt you by it? "Ah! but," say some, "I thought it meant that God elected some to heaven and some to hell." That is a very different matter from the gospel doctrine. He has elected men to holiness and to righteousness and through that to heaven. You must not say that he has elected them simply to heaven, and others only to hell. He has elected you to holiness, if you love holiness. If any of you love to be saved by Jesus Christ, Jesus Christ elected you to be saved. If any of you desire to have salvation, you are elected to have it, if you desire it sincerely and earnestly. But, if you don't desire it, why on earth should you be so preposterously foolish as to grumble because God gives that which you do not like to other people?

 

[selahsays]

None of those verses say that any person who is not chosen/elect can choose to believe and thereby be saved. In fact they specifically speak to being chosen and predestined. So I am not sure what you are trying to prove. That should not be misconstrued to mean I do not understand the gospel. It means I don't understand how you fail to see how you have contradicted yourself. Even so, I can accept that you are sticking to your story. I do not have any ill will toward you.

So who are the “ye” in Ephesians 1:13 @Magenta ? They are not the Elect; they are the free will folks. They are hearing the Gospel for the first time!

 

[FollowerofShiloh]

He saved me. What's your point?

Paul confirms Peter telling us to confirm our Election/Salvation.

Peter says to confirm it and Paul tells us to...
12 with fear and trembling work out your own salvation

And you claim God basically forced you to believe which in NO way matches what Peter and Paul claim.

 

[cv5]

Abel: good choices.....saved.
Cain: bad choices......not saved.

Dead easy.

 

[Magenta]

So who are the “ye” in Ephesians 1:13 @Magenta ? They are not the Elect; they are the free will folks. They are hearing the Gospel for the first time!

Part of your contention was that anyone who believes is/was elected. You are still contradicting yourself! @Eli1 made me hungry but now I must tend to work matters now that lunch is done...

 

[FollowerofShiloh]

Is that a yes or no?

How do you define the Trinity?

 

[selahsays]

Part of your contention was that anyone who believes is/was elected. You are still contradicting yourself!

Why can’t you understand? I give up.

 

[rogerg]

Paul confirms Peter telling us to confirm our Election/Salvation.

Peter says to confirm it and Paul tells us to...
12 with fear and trembling work out your own salvation

And you claim God basically forced you to believe which in way matches what Peter and Paul claim.

[Phl 2:13 KJV] 13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of [his] good pleasure.

Christ's faith is imputed unto those whom God saves. It works the same for all of those saved.

[Rom 4:9 KJV]
9 [Cometh] this blessedness then upon the circumcision [only], or upon the uncircumcision also? for we say that faith was reckoned to Abraham for righteousness.

[Gal 2:16 KJV]
16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

 

[rogerg]

How do you define the Trinity?

I don't. But this much I do know - that there is but one God.

 

[FollowerofShiloh]

[Phl 2:13 KJV] 13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of [his] good pleasure.

Christ's faith is imputed unto those whom God saves. It works the same for all of those saved.

[Rom 4:9 KJV]
9 [Cometh] this blessedness then upon the circumcision [only], or upon the uncircumcision also? for we say that faith was reckoned to Abraham for righteousness.

[Gal 2:16 KJV]
16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

Look at Galatians that you quote.

we believe that we might be justified.
That is what Paul is saying by working out your salvation.

Thanks for confirming my verses

 

[FollowerofShiloh]

I don't. But this much I do know - that there is but one God.

I see now why your answers are the way they are.

That would mean you believe : Jesus isn't making a choice to obey because He is the One God and He has to do it for salvation. So salvation would be the same.

 

[rogerg]

Look at Galatians that you quote.

we believe that we might be justified.
That is what Paul is saying by working out your salvation.

Thanks for confirming my verses

No, Paul is saying that for those saved, God moves them in order for them to gain understanding of their salvation.

 

[rogerg]

I see now why your answers are the way they are.

That would mean you believe : Jesus isn't making a choice to obey because He is the One God and He has to do it for salvation. So salvation would be the same.

What does this have to do with anything? You are going off into a rabbit hole and are trying to get me follow you into it.
Come back when you have something actually meaningful to discuss and which is somewhat close to the thread's topic.

 

[cv5]

I see now why your answers are the way they are.

That would mean you believe : Jesus isn't making a choice to obey because He is the One God and He has to do it for salvation. So salvation would be the same.

Jesus is DEFINITELY making a choice to obey.
The Trinity (all of them) have perfect free will. Yes.

The thing is.....they always agree perfectly, they all have the same will, and they all always make THE RIGHT CHOICES.

Jesus' doing the Fathers will is the RIGHT choice. And God ALWAYS makes the RIGHT/RIGHTEOUS choices.

Us fallen sinners? Not so much. But we DO make the ONE right choice......Christ.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

1 Corinthians 2:14 has NOTHING to do with HEARING the Gospel preached.

But it does have EVERYTHING to do with why you keep using it WRONGFULLY!

Is the gospel that you preach a spiritual gospel? If so, no one that has not been born spiritually cannot understand you.

 

[FollowerofShiloh]

No, Paul is saying that for those saved, God moves them in order for them to gain understanding of their salvation.

I can agree with that

But you still believe you were forced to be saved?

 

[FollowerofShiloh]

What does this have to do with anything? You are going off into a rabbit hole and are trying to get me follow you into it.
Come back when you have something actually meaningful to discuss and which is somewhat close to the thread's topic.

Actually, it was you who provided the Scripture of Jesus telling us He is obeying the Will of the Father.
And I am saying He is doing it by Choice not because He is forced to do it.

 

[FollowerofShiloh]

Jesus is DEFINITELY making a choice to obey.
The Trinity (all of them) have perfect free will. Yes.

The thing is.....they always agree perfectly, they all have the same will, and they all always make THE RIGHT CHOICES.

Jesus' doing the Fathers will is the RIGHT choice. And God ALWAYS makes the RIGHT/RIGHTEOUS choices.

Us fallen sinners? Not so much. But we DO make the ONE right choice......Christ.

Well the way Roger expressed his thoughts toward the trinity by signifying One God it kinf od directed me to fish more about what he was claiming there.