Salvation is a Free Gift.

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PaulThomson said:
Jesus said, "No one van come to me unless the Father draws Him." Judas came to Jesus and was part of His inner circle. How did he come to Jesus without the Father drawing Him?

So did scribes and pharisees come to Jesus to argue Matt. 15:1. How did they come to Jesus without being drawn by the Father.
Matt. 19:3 Phatrisees came to Jesus to test Him.
Matt 15:30 Crowds came to Jesus to be healed.

All were drawn to Him by the Father, according to Jesus.
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Show where Judas was drawn by the Father.
 
Eli1 said:
That's very true but we have to try and then 'shake the dust off our shoes' as the Lord says after we've tried.
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It's often a toss up, isn't it? Tell the truth and offend people, or stay quiet and let people believe lies.
 
FollowerofShiloh said:
God made Israel choose. God claims to be same when He made Israel choose like He is when we got saved. Why do you ignore what God has done and never changes but you think He changes on this?

You are claiming a God that changes when He says He never changes.
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Huh?
 
Cameron143 said:
I just realized your point. Just because it occurred simultaneously to salvation doesn't mean it must occur simultaneously to salvation in every case. In Acts Paul runs across some who were believers but who had not heard of the Holy Spirit. So he laid hands on them and they spoke in tongues. In other words, they experienced the baptism of the Spirit. But they had already believed. So belief isn't contingent upon a seal.
I believe there are many believers today who have not been sealed, or who even understand that this sealing is available.

As to your individual circumstance, I don't know one way or the other. I suspect your salvation was at the later date, and the earlier spiritual incursions were spiritual markers, but I'm not sure.
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You say belief isn't contingent upon the seal but the verse makes it plain that the seal is contingent upon belief.
 
FollowerofShiloh said:
It's a Gift that requires confirmation.
Which you REFUSE to do!

When you received the Holy Spirit you had to yield to God. That is telling God I accept Your Gift.

Did you yield to God or did He invade you against your will?
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It requires nothing from us. It is given in its fullness to us by His exceedingly great mercy and grace through Christ.
For those to whom it is given, they are but its beneficiaries and recipients. Nothing beyond it being given, is required nor permitted.

[1Pe 1:4 KJV] 4 To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you,
 
Cameron143 said:
I see. I think the circumcision of the heart is what is spoken of in Ezekiel 36:26 and is performed by the Holy Spirit as a part of the inner working of God in salvation. I personally attach it to salvation in time, so I believe it is being born from above.
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My apologies again for belaboring this and thank you for hashing it out with me ... what you are saying is that the heart circumcision happens at the time of belief, whereas I believe the heart circumcision is what allows us to come to believe.
 
Magenta said:
You say belief isn't contingent upon the seal but the verse makes it plain that the seal is contingent upon belief.
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Not necessarily. Belief must occur before the sign, but the sign isn't required to be present. That's why I gave the example in Acts 19. I believe many Christians live and die being saved but never sealed.
 
FollowerofShiloh said:
If God is co-equal then how can one make another do something?
It must be by choice.
So if God does things by choice why do you think His salvation is different?
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Wait - I just realized you said co-equal to God instead of Him just being God. Do you believe there is more than one God?
 
Magenta said:
My apologies again for belaboring this and thank you for hashing it out with me ... what you are saying is that the heart circumcision happens at the time of belief, whereas I believe the heart circumcision is what allows us to come to believe.
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No. I believe the circumcision precedes belief. I merely believe it is relatively close in time.
 
Foghorn said:
You guys keep dancing around our answers that we were not forced to believe. It’s pretty clear we don’t believe that. Salvation is not offered to anyone who decides they want to believe. If you insist it is, you have a whole Bible to look through to prove it. So, prove it.
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So you were not forced to accept salvation?
 
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rogerg said:
It requires nothing from us. It is given in its fullness to us by His exceedingly great mercy and grace through Christ.
For those to whom it is given, they are but its beneficiaries and recipients. Nothing beyond it being given, is required nor permitted.

[1Pe 1:4 KJV] 4 To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you,
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It requires you to accept it.

Did you accept the Gift of salvation or did God make you by force to be saved?
 
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Cameron143 said:
Not necessarily. Belief must occur before the sign, but the sign isn't required to be present. That's why I gave the example in Acts 19. I believe many Christians live and die being saved but never sealed.
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And yet as Christians they do believe and so they have been sealed.
 
Magenta said:
And yet as Christians they do believe and so they have been sealed.
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Sure. But if you go back to the original verse you shared, that particular sealing was experiential. So I would say they were baptized into the body of Christ, but not baptized with the Holy Spirit.
 
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