Did Jesus Die on The Cross for The Just/Elect/Saved Whose Names Are Written in The Book of Life OR

[Rufus]

The Apostle Peter gives us great insight in his second Epistle, 10 Therefore, brothers, be all the more diligent to confirm your calling and election.

Peter shows us we are part of the process (Election) but it's our job to confirm being Elect.

All God's elect are products of his grace. However, as I proved the other day, the because the hearts of men are so utterly deceitful, there are many such exhortations in the scripture which serve as an acid test for the genuineness of the saints' faith. Spurious faith runs rampant in the Church (see my 5168). (And no one would know this better than Peter, would they!? After all, he "departed" from the faith for a very short season, didn't he? So, if anyone knew the difference genuine faith and the spurious kind, it would be him.)

So, Peter give his audience a spiritual checklist and exhorts them to take a spiritual inventory of themselves.

But before he gives the inventory checklist, he said this about God:

2 Peter 1:3-4
3 His divine power has given us everything we need for life and godliness through our knowledge of him who called us by his own glory and goodness. 4 Through these he has given us his very great and precious promises, so that through them you may participate in the divine nature and escape the corruption in the world caused by evil desires.
NIV

In other words, by his divine GRACE he has given us everything we need. And when was this grace given? It was predestined to be given to us in eternity. And I don't believe any of us were around in eternity to be part of the election process.

What follows next is the checklist:

2 Peter 1:5-9
5 For this very reason, make every effort to add to your faith goodness; and to goodness, knowledge; 6 and to knowledge, self-control; and to self-control, perseverance; and to perseverance, godliness; 7 and to godliness, brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness, love. 8 For if you possess these qualities in increasing measure, they will keep you from being ineffective and unproductive in your knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 But if anyone does not have them, he is nearsighted and blind, and has forgotten that he has been cleansed from his past sins.
NIV

In other words, IF God has actually given to us EVERYTHING we need for life and godliness...then our [new] hearts will move us, incline us, cause us to grow in faith by adding the qualities listed. But if anyone does not posssess those qualities, then he has every reason to believe his faith is spurious -- as phony as a $3. bill. (This is why growing/maturing in faith is so vitally important to the Christian life.)

And then the purpose to the checklist is the Blessed Assurance of God's Great Salvation:

2 Peter 1:10-11
10 Therefore, my brothers, be all the more eager to make your calling and election sure. For if you do these things, you will never fall, 11 and you will receive a rich welcome into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.
NIV

In summary, this spiritual inventory was given as a tool to warn us of the ever-present danger of self-deception.

 

[Rufus]

Big difference in the concept of predestination.

If one is predestined to be saved it also means those not saved were predestined to be eternally damned.
That in no way reveals a true Loving God.

And your point is??? The Cross of Christ does in fact demonstrte God's love toward this elect. But at the same time it also demonstrate's God justice!

So, with your concept of God, He must either condemn all mankind, as he has done with the fallen angels...or he must actually save all mankind which is a foreign concept in scripture...or he must give all fallen mankind the prerequisite power to resurrect themselves from their own spiritual tombs so that they can subsequently decide on their own to choose eternal life or eternal death?

 

[FollowerofShiloh]

All God's elect are products of his grace. However, as I proved the other day, the because the hearts of men are so utterly deceitful, there are many such exhortations in the scripture which serve as an acid test for the genuineness of the saints' faith. Spurious faith runs rampant in the Church (see my 5168). (And no one would know this better than Peter, would they!? After all, he "departed" from the faith for a very short season, didn't he? So, if anyone knew the difference genuine faith and the spurious kind, it would be him.)

So, Peter give his audience a spiritual checklist and exhorts them to take a spiritual inventory of themselves.

But before he gives the inventory checklist, he said this about God:

2 Peter 1:3-4
3 His divine power has given us everything we need for life and godliness through our knowledge of him who called us by his own glory and goodness. 4 Through these he has given us his very great and precious promises, so that through them you may participate in the divine nature and escape the corruption in the world caused by evil desires.
NIV

In other words, by his divine GRACE he has given us everything we need. And when was this grace given? It was predestined to be given to us in eternity. And I don't believe any of us were around in eternity to be part of the election process.

What follows next is the checklist:

2 Peter 1:5-9
5 For this very reason, make every effort to add to your faith goodness; and to goodness, knowledge; 6 and to knowledge, self-control; and to self-control, perseverance; and to perseverance, godliness; 7 and to godliness, brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness, love. 8 For if you possess these qualities in increasing measure, they will keep you from being ineffective and unproductive in your knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 But if anyone does not have them, he is nearsighted and blind, and has forgotten that he has been cleansed from his past sins.
NIV

In other words, IF God has actually given to us EVERYTHING we need for life and godliness...then our [new] hearts will move us, incline us, cause us to grow in faith by adding the qualities listed. But if anyone does not posssess those qualities, then he has every reason to believe his faith is spurious -- as phony as a $3. bill. (This is why growing/maturing in faith is so vitally important to the Christian life.)

And then the purpose to the checklist is the Blessed Assurance of God's Great Salvation:

2 Peter 1:10-11
10 Therefore, my brothers, be all the more eager to make your calling and election sure. For if you do these things, you will never fall, 11 and you will receive a rich welcome into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.
NIV

In summary, this spiritual inventory was given as a tool to warn us of the ever-present danger of self-deception.

The Apostle Peter gives us great insight in his second Epistle, 10 Therefore, brothers, be all the more diligent to confirm your calling and election.

Peter shows us we are part of the process (Election) but it's our job to confirm being Elect.

We still have responsibility.

 

[FollowerofShiloh]

And your point is??? The Cross of Christ does in fact demonstrte God's love toward this elect. But at the same time it also demonstrate's God justice!

So, with your concept of God, He must either condemn all mankind, as he has done with the fallen angels...or he must actually save all mankind which is a foreign concept in scripture...or he must give all fallen mankind the prerequisite power to resurrect themselves from their own spiritual tombs so that they can subsequently decide on their own to choose eternal life or eternal death?

It also shows that God did not predestine people to hell. Which means He died for them all. Also means everyone is called. But only a few will enter in.

 

[Rufus]

It also shows that God did not predestine people to hell. Which means He died for them all. Also means everyone is called. But only a few will enter in.

No, when God predestines the elect to eternal perdition, this demonstrates his justice. You certainly have a very lopsided view of who God is and what he is! You seem think that God is morally obligated to save all or to make his saving grace available to all. Yet, from the very beginning in the Garden after the Fall, he did no such thing!

Even in his love, he cannot love that which evil; for his love is moral in nature. This is why he cannot love sinners since their hearts ARE the wellsprings of evil, making them evil entities. I am ever so thankful that my God, who has revealed his holy character in scripture, is extremely trustworthy for the precise reason that he can only love that which is good. How could anyone logically ever trust any moral being who at once loves what is good and evil!? You must think God is as conflicted as you are.

 

[Rufus]

We still have responsibility.

And that we had since the day we were born. But responsibility does not imply ability to comply. Man lost that power when Adam sinned.

 

[PaulThomson]

The work that God has BEGUN, he will bring to completion. We did not begin the work, we do not sustain or maintain the work, nor do we complete it (Phil 1:6). All salvation is a gracious of gift of God. And his great and precious gift empowers his saints to be willing actors on HIS world stage. The Story of Redemptive History is God's Story -- it's his Play on his World Stage. And he not only wrote the script, but he's directing the play as well (Prov 16:9).

It's sad that you cannot believe the scriptures. You seem committed to twisting and perverting the scriptures by your carnal reasoning, which has become your ultimate authority in life.

But as for this "Calvinist", by God's grace I believe what is written.

So, you consider yourself to be just a puppet that God manipulates, and you have nothing thst you actually do yourself. God is making a sock-puppet tell Him that the sock-puppet loves Him and adores Him, and God thinks He is getting maximal glory from that behaviour of His own?

 

[BillyBob]

Luke 22:31-34
31 "Simon, Simon, Satan has asked to sift you as wheat. 32 But I have prayed for you, Simon, that your faith may not fail. And when you have turned back, strengthen your brothers."

Have you ever noticed that Christ often refers to Peter as Simon when He is speaking of the old man?

 

[Rufus]

So, you consider yourself to be just a puppet that God manipulates, and you have nothing thst you actually do yourself. God is making a sock-puppet tell Him that the sock-puppet loves Him and adores Him, and God thinks He is getting maximal glory from that behaviour of His own?

No, I consider myself as someone who has been raised from the dead by the power of God and for his glory. How else could I respond to such love and grace that saved a wretch like me and transformed me into his new creation by which I have been freed from the power of sin? Why would I want to return to my old life? And this isn't to say that I have never strayed; but he has always kept me close to his heart and has never let me stray far or for long.

So, yes, I do things for God by the power of his amazing grace. Your contempt for his grace tells me that you are a stranger to it. May it please Him to transform your heart one day.

 

[BillyBob]

Reformers present a "Loving God" who for His Own purpose and Sovereignty has personally sent most of His creation to an eternal hell.

Reformers do no such thing! We all come into this world as rebellious creatures. God is not under any obligation to save any of us at all. We should therefore be ever thankful that He saved us when others remain in a lost state!

 

[Rufus]

Have you ever noticed that Christ often refers to Peter as Simon when He is speaking of the old man?

Hah...an excellent observation! Even though Jesus himself renamed him, when Peter is about to stumble he calls him by the OLD name. I bet all God's saints will have new names in the restored creation.

 

[HealthAndHappiness]

for the Unjust/Nonelect/Unsaved whose names are not written in The Book of Life?

Revelation 21:27
There shall not enter into it any thing defiled, or that worketh abomination or maketh a lie, but they that are written in the book of life of the Lamb

Have you ever told a lie?

 

[PaulThomson]

No, I consider myself as someone who has been raised from the dead by the power of God and for his glory. How else could I respond to such love and grace that saved a wretch like me and transformed me into his new creation by which I have been freed from the power of sin? Why would I want to return to my old life? And this isn't to say that I have never strayed; but he has always kept me close to his heart and has never let me stray far or for long.

So, yes, I do things for God by the power of his amazing grace. Your contempt for his grace tells me that you are a stranger to it. May it please Him to transform your heart one day.

I don't have contempt for God's grace. I have problems with the parody of grace that you are presenting as if it were biblical.

What have you ever done whether good or evil, that you believe God did not decree it, did not empower you to do it, and did not put the desire into your heart to want to do it?

 

[obertarti]

Of course it can...for a season! It just will not continue in that denial.

And you misunderstand John's teaching. John did not teach the heresy of Perfectionism. Instead, he taught this:

1 John 3:9
9 No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God's seed remains in him; he cannot go on sinning, because he has been born of God.
NIV

And,

1 John 5:18
18 We know that anyone born of God does not continue to sin; the one who was born of God keeps him safe, and the evil one cannot harm him.
NIV

This last passage is a great companion to the Luke 22 passage I quoted earlier. Peter sinned by denying his Lord and Savior, right? But he very soon afterward repented of his sin. Did not Jesus in Luke 22 tell Peter "and WHEN you return"? Didn't Jesus tell Peter that he would pray for him? So...who kept Peter safe, according to the above quoted passage...if not Christ? Isn't Jesus greater than the evil one? Or can the evil one snatch any of God's sheep from the Good Shepherd's hands?

Peter not snatched but Jude yes

Why?

Perfectionism exist but in Christ where one should be baptised-immersed

New International Version
Whoever claims to live in him must live as Jesus did

If one can sin then he is not in Christ and his baptism/immersion/ into Christ not accomplished perfectly

Baptism into Christ has many steps

 

[obertarti]

Big difference in the concept of predestination.

If one is predestined to be saved it also means those not saved were predestined to be eternally damned.
That in no way reveals a true Loving God.

Predestined doesn't mean forced

Predestination had before previsión

 

[Burn1986]

for the Unjust/Nonelect/Unsaved whose names are not written in The Book of Life?

Revelation 21:27
There shall not enter into it any thing defiled, or that worketh abomination or maketh a lie, but they that are written in the book of life of the Lamb

So you’re a non-elect. It’s funny to have a non-elect talking about being non-elect. Lol

 

[Rufus]

I don't have contempt for God's grace. I have problems with the parody of grace that you are presenting as if it were biblical.

What have you ever done whether good or evil, that you believe God did not decree it, did not empower you to do it, and did not put the desire into your heart to want to do it?

As Shakespeare famously said:

All the world’s a stage,
And all the men and women merely players;
They have their exits and their entrances;
And one man in his time plays many parts...

We mere mortals are merely players on the world stage of God's Redemptive History. We neither wrote the script or are directing our own roles or the roles of anyone else. But we do willingly play our many parts -- whether as saints or sinners. No matter what role God has appointed for us, we're all in!

And the Holy Word of God bears this truth out! I don't have to rely on Shakespeare -- as brilliant as his philosophical insight was.

Job 23:13-14
13 "But He is unique and who can turn Him?
And what His soul desires, that He does.
14 "For He performs what is appointed for me,
And many such decrees are with Him.
NASB

And,

Job 12:11-25
11 "Does not the ear test words,As the palate tastes its food? 12 "Wisdom is with aged men, With long life is understanding. 13 "With Him are wisdom and might; To Him belong counsel and understanding. 14 "Behold, He tears down, and it cannot be rebuilt; He imprisons a man, and there can be no release. 15 "Behold, He restrains the waters, and they dry up; And He sends them out, and they inundate the earth. 16 "With Him are strength and sound wisdom, The misled and the misleader belong to Him. 17 "He makes counselors walk barefoot, And makes fools of judges. 18 "He loosens the bond of kings, And binds their loins with a girdle. 19 "He makes priests walk barefoot, And overthrows the secure ones. 20 "He deprives the trusted ones of speech, And takes away the discernment of the elders. 21 "He pours contempt on nobles, And loosens the belt of the strong. 22 "He reveals mysteries from the darkness,And brings the deep darkness into light. 23 "He makes the nations great, then destroys them; He enlarges the nations, then leads them away. 24 "He deprives of intelligence the chiefs of the earth's people, And makes them wander in a pathless waste. 25 "They grope in darkness with no light, And He makes them stagger like a drunken man.
NASB

And,

Ps 37:23
23 The steps of a man are established by the Lord;
And He delights in his way.
NASB

And,

Ps 110:3
3 Thy people will volunteer freely in the day of Thy power;
In holy array, from the womb of the dawn,
Thy youth are to Thee as the dew.
NASB

And,

Prov 16:1
6 The plans of the heart belong to man,
But the answer of the tongue is from the Lord.
NASB

And,

Prov 16:4
4 The Lord has made everything for its own purpose,
Even the wicked for the day of evil.
NASB

And,

Prov 16:9
9 The mind of man plans his way,
But the Lord directs his steps.
NASB

And,

Prov 19:21
21 Many are the plans in a man's heart,
But the counsel of the Lord, it will stand.
NASB

And,
Prov 16:33
33 The lot is cast into the lap,
But its every decision is from the Lord.
NASB

You see....there's no such thing as luck or chance or coincidence. These are but mere constructs of finite, carnal minds in their vain attempts to explain the incomprehensible, such as the thoughts and ways of God which are unlike ours (Isa 55:8-9).

And re Prov 16:1, 9; 19:21, did God consult with Job before he decided to test him by tossing his godly servant to the roaring lion to torment to see whether or not Job would remain faithful to God or curse him?

Or what about Abimelech in Gen 20 who had grand designs on Abraham's wife Sara, yet God did not let the pagan king touch her? Was the king just a puppet whose strings God pulled?

Or what about Balaam who was commissioned by the wicked Moabite king Balak to curse Israel (Num 22) even though God had already blessed them? But Balaam refused to go with Moabite princes that Balak had sent because God would not let him go. But finally God relented and permitted Balaam to return to Balak on the condition that Balaam obey God completely. But even so, God was "very angry" when he departed. But Balaam still could not curse Israel, for he could only speak what God commanded him! Balaam, too, was just another "puppet" on God's string?

Or what about the self-willed prophet Jonah who clearly had his own ideas on how to deal with the pagans in Nineveh? Who won that battle of the wills? Who wound up, after all, preaching the "gospel of repentance" to the Ninevites? I suppose Jonah was just another mindless puppet on a string?

You synergists speak of things you do not know. You try to reduce the Eternal God to the severe limitations of your carnal, finite minds. (Talk about a fool's errand!) You have no idea at all that God is at once Incomprehensible and Comprehensible. He is the former because He has kept many things hidden from us, so that we'll never understand him exhaustively; and yet he is also the latter because he has revealed many other things to us, which provides us with real and substantial understanding. Have you never read:

Deut 29:29
29 The secret things belong to the LORD our God, but the things revealed belong to us and to our children forever, that we may follow all the words of this law?
NIV

What God has kept secret and cannot be known by us and what He has revealed that he wants us to know and understand should inspire fear in our hearts of Him. For his saints, that would be a reverent, awe-struck fear; for sinners it should be the kind of fear that Jesus talked about in Lk 12:5.

Eccl 3:14
14 I know that everything God does will remain forever; there is nothing to add to it and there is nothing to take from it, for God has so worked that men should fear Him.
NASB

Yet sadly, I find so little of the fear of the Lord in the writings of most posters here. Instead, I find rampant idolatry; for many have created God in their own image.. It's no wonder Paul concluded God's indictment against mankind with:

Rom 3:18
18 "There is no fear of God before their eyes."
NIV

 

[Rufus]

Peter not snatched but Jude yes

Why?

Perfectionism exist but in Christ where one should be baptised-immersed

New International Version
Whoever claims to live in him must live as Jesus did

If one can sin then he is not in Christ and his baptism/immersion/ into Christ not accomplished perfectly

Baptism into Christ has many steps

I take it that you meant Judas? But Judas was never one of God's sheep. Jesus chose Judas as an disciple to fulfill prophecy.

Perfectionism is a heresy. There's not even a righteous man on this earth who never sins (Eccl 7:20). See also 1Jn 1:8-10.

 

[FollowerofShiloh]

No, when God predestines the elect to eternal perdition, this demonstrates his justice. You certainly have a very lopsided view of who God is and what he is! You seem think that God is morally obligated to save all or to make his saving grace available to all. Yet, from the very beginning in the Garden after the Fall, he did no such thing!

Even in his love, he cannot love that which evil; for his love is moral in nature. This is why he cannot love sinners since their hearts ARE the wellsprings of evil, making them evil entities. I am ever so thankful that my God, who has revealed his holy character in scripture, is extremely trustworthy for the precise reason that he can only love that which is good. How could anyone logically ever trust any moral being who at once loves what is good and evil!? You must think God is as conflicted as you are.

I don't think God is obligated to save those who are even faithful to Him. But He also cannot lie.

 

[FollowerofShiloh]

And that we had since the day we were born. But responsibility does not imply ability to comply. Man lost that power when Adam sinned.

Are you calling Peter a liar?

10 Therefore, brothers, be all the more diligent to confirm your calling and election.

Peter shows us we are part of the process (Election) but it's our job to confirm being Elect.