The Law Poses Two Questions...

[Cameron143]

“The verse is saying they will have eternal life, but not that it is conditioned upon deeds, because that would contradict a whole raft of other scriptures.”

“But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God; Who will render to every man according to his deeds: to them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life: but unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile; but glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile: for there is no respect of persons with God.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭2:5-11‬ ‭KJV‬‬

So we simply reject what it says

“God; Who will render to every man according to his deeds: to them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life: “

“but unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil,”

and your reasoning is it disagrees with other scripture ?

“Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, and shall come forth;

they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life;

and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.”
‭‭John‬ ‭5:28-29‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.”
‭‭2 Corinthians‬ ‭5:10‬ ‭

“And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭20:12-13‬ ‭KJV‬‬

you know what’s missing ? Any scripture explaining any other different judgemet it’s always been the same

“Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man. For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil.”
‭‭Ecclesiastes‬ ‭12:13-14‬ ‭KJV‬‬

I know we want to pretend that it doesn’t matter what we do , but in the end we need to repent and believe the truth if we don’t we’re going to perish like the lord has said

What is this raft of scriptures, and, more importantly, where can I get one?

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

One who returns to his own vomit isn't a believer. Those that die in their sins are not saved. So yes, they are separated from God, and have always been. I'm referring to believers.

Amen

A dog returns to his vomit because well. He is still a dog

If he was saved, he would be made a new creature

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

What do you do with scripture like this that repeats throughout the Bible’s New Testament ?

paul is writing this to the church at rome

“But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God; Who will render to every man according to his deeds: to them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:


but unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;

but glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile: for there is no respect of persons with God.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭2:5-11‬ ‭KJV‬‬

are we meant to ignore that and just say it’s not true and we’re saved ? I’ve talked with many who hold your view there but I’ve never gotten an answer about if we’re supposed to accept what Jesus and his apostles taught the church about thier judgement .

what are believers to do with the plain scriptires telling us how to be saved and how to not be damned ?

What do I do?

I interpret them correctly.

They are not prescriptuve. they are descriptive.

There is only one way to be saved, and one way to be damned.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

What is this raft of scriptures, and, more importantly, where can I get one?

You already have a Bible lol that’s the raft we float on haha and you can get the exact same raft just by studying what it teaches about eternal judgement and our deeds and then asking God if it’s true and to teach it to you


“Pilate therefore said unto him, Art thou a king then? Jesus answered, Thou sayest that I am a king. To this end was I born, and for this cause came I into the world, that I should bear witness unto the truth. Every one that is of the truth heareth my voice.”
‭‭John‬ ‭18:37‬ ‭KJV‬‬

This is how

“Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed; and ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.”
‭‭John‬ ‭8:31-32‬ ‭KJV‬‬

 

[wattie]

What do I do?

I interpret them correctly.

They are not prescriptuve. they are descriptive.

There is only one way to be saved, and one way to be damned.

Ya as I said to Pilgrimshope, the reverse of scriptures such as be baptized for the remission of sins isn't true, because it would contradict other scriptures.

 

[wattie]

“The verse is saying they will have eternal life, but not that it is conditioned upon deeds, because that would contradict a whole raft of other scriptures.”

“But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God; Who will render to every man according to his deeds: to them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life: but unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile; but glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile: for there is no respect of persons with God.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭2:5-11‬ ‭KJV‬‬

So we simply reject what it says

“God; Who will render to every man according to his deeds: to them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life: “

“but unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil,”

and your reasoning is it disagrees with other scripture ?

“Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, and shall come forth;

they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life;

and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.”
‭‭John‬ ‭5:28-29‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.”
‭‭2 Corinthians‬ ‭5:10‬ ‭

“And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭20:12-13‬ ‭KJV‬‬

you know what’s missing ? Any scripture explaining any other different judgemet it’s always been the same

“Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man. For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil.”
‭‭Ecclesiastes‬ ‭12:13-14‬ ‭KJV‬‬

I know we want to pretend that it doesn’t matter what we do , but in the end we need to repent and believe the truth if we don’t we’re going to perish like the lord has said

Just compare these verses with Romans 5 and 10 and the book of John.

Justification and sanctification become separated.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

What is this raft of scriptures, and, more importantly, where can I get one?

Sincerely brother so you know why you find this in nearly all of Paul’s letters ? He speak eloquently of grace and salvation and inheritance and a free gift that’s been handed to us in the church

and then he speaks things like this in the latter parts of his letters to the churches it’s in almost all of them

“This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh. For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would. But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law. Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭5:16-21‬ ‭KJV‬‬

do you know why Paul always adds severe warnings to the same people he’s telling about grace and salvation ?

“Be ye therefore followers of God, as dear children; and walk in love, as Christ also hath loved us, and hath given himself for us an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweetsmelling savour. But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints; neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks. For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.

Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience. Be not ye therefore partakers with them.”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭5:1-7‬ ‭KJV‬‬

do you realize why that type of instructions to the chrich on how to now live always over balanced with this in his letters ?

“For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭2:8‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Guys like me seem like we dont get it but this is the message of Gods grace . This woman was condemned to death by the law Jesus turns the law against her accusers and saves her when they realize they too are sinners but look at his message

“When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee? She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee:

go, and sin no more.”
‭‭John‬ ‭8:10-11‬ ‭

the last sentance is part of the message also repentance . There’s a reason Jesus , Peter , Paul John all Preached believing in Jesus and being saved by him, but also all preached about repentance and eternal judgement accountablitiy in Christ ect

“I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭5:32‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish. ….I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭13:3, 5‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“and said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day: and that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭24:46-47‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent: because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭17:30-31‬ ‭

Old codgers like me seem Grumpy and we just won’t accept “ saved by grace “ but I think it’s because the more of the message we are able to hear over time decades and life experiences ect ……the more important and real and dire that alarm going off becomes to us personally

I think the closer I come to this day when I give account of my own deeds the more important subjects like that become because of we don’t hear those things ( and in modern churches we truly don’t everyone wants a feel good message so a lot gets left out ) but when we don’t hear those things in the scattered body of Christ no one thinks it and no one knows what’s coming

but it’s coming regardless

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Ya as I said to Pilgrimshope, the reverse of scriptures such as be baptized for the remission of sins isn't true, because it would contradict other scriptures.

It’s all a message one scripture doesn’t contradict another . That’s me letter written by Paul the apostle to the church at rome filled with doctrine and of course the truth about eternal judgement and why we aren’t to judge one another because we all have to do what Paul repeatedly returns to in the book of Roman’s

“But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ. For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, And every tongue shall confess to God. So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God. Let us not therefore judge one another any more: but judge this rather, that no man put a stumblingblock or an occasion to fall in his brother's way.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭14:10-13‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Or the letter he wrote to the church at Corinth

“For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.”
‭‭2 Corinthians‬ ‭5:10‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Is Paul just lying to them probably ?
reverse psychology lol

“Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure. Do all things without murmurings and disputings: that ye may be blameless and harmless, the sons of God, without rebuke, in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation, among whom ye shine as lights in the world;”
‭‭Philippians‬ ‭2:12-15‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Is all rhat not true because of John 3:16 ? I’m really not following your logic

 

[Cameron143]

You already have a Bible lol that’s the raft we float on haha and you can get the exact same raft just by studying what it teaches about eternal judgement and our deeds and then asking God if it’s true and to teach it to you


“Pilate therefore said unto him, Art thou a king then? Jesus answered, Thou sayest that I am a king. To this end was I born, and for this cause came I into the world, that I should bear witness unto the truth. Every one that is of the truth heareth my voice.”
‭‭John‬ ‭18:37‬ ‭KJV‬‬

This is how

“Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed; and ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.”
‭‭John‬ ‭8:31-32‬ ‭KJV‬‬

You must be reading out of the HFV...the Huckleberry Finn Version.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Just compare these verses with Romans 5 and 10 and the book of John.

Justification and sanctification become separated.

Yeah but why ignore all the chinks of letters wrotten explaining it all lol why not just accept what’s being taught ?

what do you think Roman’s is ? It’s just a letter that the apostle Paul wrote to believers in rome because he couldn’t come in Person yet he wanted to preview some of his understanding of things to them . They are letters

We don’t take a letter and then take each sentance out of context to disprove what’s being said in all the sentences lol that would never make sense they aren’t but letters that an apostle of Jesus wrote to a group of believers that’s what Paul’s epistles are but for a couple personal letters included

they ere Meant to be read like A letter that’s conveying understanding to believers about the gospel they all believed already and formed a church in rome. He says all of this in the letter

It’s a complete message from God through Paul an apostle concerning the Lords gospel. It touches on most of these basic doctrines we should all know because they are foundational and not of the mysterious or complex matters

“Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works,

and of faith toward God,

of the doctrine of baptisms,

and of laying on of hands,

and of resurrection of the dead,

and of eternal judgment.

And this will we do, if God permit.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭6:1-3‬ ‭KJV‬‬

The doctrine is what’s actually written about those subject …eternal judgement. Is always taught the same by Jesus , Paul , Peter , Matthew the ot prophets ect everyone has always taught the same coming judgement for mankind

We have time to repent before we get there and have our sins remitted through baptism , and after that we have Christs doctrine to follow regarding forgivness and eternal life

 

[Cameron143]

Sincerely brother so you know why you find this in nearly all of Paul’s letters ? He speak eloquently of grace and salvation and inheritance and a free gift that’s been handed to us in the church

and then he speaks things like this in the latter parts of his letters to the churches it’s in almost all of them

“This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh. For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would. But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law. Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭5:16-21‬ ‭KJV‬‬

do you know why Paul always adds severe warnings to the same people he’s telling about grace and salvation ?

“Be ye therefore followers of God, as dear children; and walk in love, as Christ also hath loved us, and hath given himself for us an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweetsmelling savour. But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints; neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks. For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.

Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience. Be not ye therefore partakers with them.”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭5:1-7‬ ‭KJV‬‬

do you realize why that type of instructions to the chrich on how to now live always over balanced with this in his letters ?

“For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭2:8‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Guys like me seem like we dont get it but this is the message of Gods grace . This woman was condemned to death by the law Jesus turns the law against her accusers and saves her when they realize they too are sinners but look at his message

“When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee? She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee:

go, and sin no more.”
‭‭John‬ ‭8:10-11‬ ‭

the last sentance is part of the message also repentance . There’s a reason Jesus , Peter , Paul John all Preached believing in Jesus and being saved by him, but also all preached about repentance and eternal judgement accountablitiy in Christ ect

“I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭5:32‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish. ….I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭13:3, 5‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“and said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day: and that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭24:46-47‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent: because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭17:30-31‬ ‭

Old codgers like me seem Grumpy and we just won’t accept “ saved by grace “ but I think it’s because the more of the message we are able to hear over time decades and life experiences ect ……the more important and real and dire that alarm going off becomes to us personally

I think the closer I come to this day when I give account of my own deeds the more important subjects like that become because of we don’t hear those things ( and in modern churches we truly don’t everyone wants a feel good message so a lot gets left out ) but when we don’t hear those things in the scattered body of Christ no one thinks it and no one knows what’s coming

but it’s coming regardless

The reason Paul speaks that way is because he is generally teaching doctrine in the first half of the epistles, and then teaching them how the doctrine works out practically in their lives in the 2nd half.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

You must be reading out of the HFV...the Huckleberry Finn Version.

I guess so doesnt seem like many modern Christian’s agree with what mine says in it even if it’s repeated by Jesus and his apostles but it’s always kept me afloat on my river I reckon the currents will take me n Tom up the Mississipp towards yonder lands a home

If there’s a waterfall it’s too late I’m commited

 

[Pilgrimshope]

The reason Paul speaks that way is because he is generally teaching doctrine in the first half of the epistles, and then teaching them how the doctrine works out practically in their lives in the 2nd half.

Do you believe this brother ?

“For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad. Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men;

but we are made manifest unto God; and I trust also are made manifest in your consciences.”
‭‭2 Corinthians‬ ‭5:10-11‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Paul says it repeatedly in his letters written to the churches particularly here in perfect detail

“. Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance? But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God; Who will render to every man according to his deeds: to them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:

but unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile; but glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile: for there is no respect of persons with God.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭2:1, 4-11‬ ‭

Still later he’s addressing it

“But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.

For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, And every tongue shall confess to God.( we can do it now or later )

So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God. Let us not therefore judge one another any more: but judge this rather, that no man put a stumblingblock or an occasion to fall in his brother's way.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭14:10-13‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Everything that Paul wrote was to bring people to repentance and obedience to Christ and the gospel because of the truth.

“For I will not dare to speak of any of those things which Christ hath not wrought by me, to make the Gentiles obedient, by word and deed,”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭15:18‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Because thier words and deeds matter essentially regarding thier salvation

 

[Pilgrimshope]

The reason Paul speaks that way is because he is generally teaching doctrine in the first half of the epistles, and then teaching them how the doctrine works out practically in their lives in the 2nd half.

doctrine is what Jesus taught in the gospel he was sent to earth to preach and we’re told to believe and be saved . Paul is giving revelation into what he had taught because beforehand tbey couldnt understand him not having the holt ghost yet

this is our doctrine

“Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭24:35‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭13:8‬ ‭KJV‬‬

 

[Cameron143]

Do you believe this brother ?

“For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad. Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men;

but we are made manifest unto God; and I trust also are made manifest in your consciences.”
‭‭2 Corinthians‬ ‭5:10-11‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Paul says it repeatedly in his letters written to the churches particularly here in perfect detail

“. Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance? But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God; Who will render to every man according to his deeds: to them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:

but unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile; but glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile: for there is no respect of persons with God.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭2:1, 4-11‬ ‭

Still later he’s addressing it

“But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.

For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, And every tongue shall confess to God.( we can do it now or later )

So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God. Let us not therefore judge one another any more: but judge this rather, that no man put a stumblingblock or an occasion to fall in his brother's way.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭14:10-13‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Everything that Paul wrote was to bring people to repentance and obedience to Christ and the gospel because of the truth.

“For I will not dare to speak of any of those things which Christ hath not wrought by me, to make the Gentiles obedient, by word and deed,”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭15:18‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Because thier words and deeds matter essentially regarding thier salvation

Sure. But the words and deeds are a reflection of who Christ has made them. A new creation doesn't speak and do as an old creation.
Now I do believe we are all given gifts and talents and are expected to improve what the LORD has entrusted us with. But this is what believers will be judged on. We will not give an accounting of our sins. Jesus already did that and there is therefore no condemnation for those in Christ.

 

[Dino246]

The Jews are not bound by the Mosaic Law today.

Israel is a democratic society with an elected government.

God does not legislate law in Israel the elected Government generates the law.

They have much the same legal code as every other country on earth.

Don’t confuse modern secular Israel with ‘the Jews’.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Sure. But the words and deeds are a reflection of who Christ has made them. A new creation doesn't speak and do as an old creation.
Now I do believe we are all given gifts and talents and are expected to improve what the LORD has entrusted us with. But this is what believers will be judged on. We will not give an accounting of our sins. Jesus already did that and there is therefore no condemnation for those in Christ.

Yeah brother

“But the words and deeds are a reflection of who Christ has made them. A new creation doesn't speak and do as an old creation”

what does this actually mean ?

“Now I do believe we are all given gifts and talents and are expected to improve what the LORD has entrusted us with. “

you mean spiritual gifts for the body ? Or are you referring to the parable of the talents ? That’s a measure of money in the parable but it’s not about money or judgement day ….

“But this is what believers will be judged on.” We will not give an accounting of our sins. Jesus already did that and there is therefore no condemnation for those in Christ”

So not this

“Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.

For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil.”
‭‭Ecclesiastes‬ ‭12:13-14‬ ‭

“For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.”
‭‭2 Corinthians‬ ‭5:10‬ ‭KJV‬

“Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance?

But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God;

Who will render to every man according to his deeds: to them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life: but unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile; but glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile: for there is no respect of persons with God.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭2:4-11‬ ‭KJV‬‬

And this part which believers of the gospel know

“Be ye therefore merciful, as your Father also is merciful. Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven: give, and it shall be given unto you; good measure, pressed down, and shaken together, and running over, shall be given into your bosom. For with the same measure that ye mete withal it shall be measured to you again.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭6:36-38‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Does his judgement about that stand still ?

“For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you:

but if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭6:14-15‬ ‭KJV‬‬

you see the conundrum when we conclude there’s no condition ? Then we’re forced to reject everything we learn that he said about everything really lol

if I’m saying I’m already forgiven doesn’t matter …..I then can reject what the lord taught me about forgivness receiving and also giving it and argue against what the lord actually taught believers to believe about forgivness

but if I’m humble I can easily understand “ this is the son of God teaching believers in him about forgivness which he was going to die to purchase for them …it’s my lord and savior teaching me about forgivness in a very straight forward simple way

We’re supposed to let the lord change our minds by accepting his word that’s how he effectively changes us …..


“For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son:”
‭
…“Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.”
‭‭John‬ ‭5:24‬ ‭

“He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak. And I know that his commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak.”
‭‭John‬ ‭12:48-50‬ ‭KJV‬‬

our sins are forgiven by him now we have to stop serving the devils Will which is sin. And when we do sin we need to repent and confess like he taught

 

[wattie]

Yeah but why ignore all the chinks of letters wrotten explaining it all lol why not just accept what’s being taught ?

what do you think Roman’s is ? It’s just a letter that the apostle Paul wrote to believers in rome because he couldn’t come in Person yet he wanted to preview some of his understanding of things to them . They are letters

We don’t take a letter and then take each sentance out of context to disprove what’s being said in all the sentences lol that would never make sense they aren’t but letters that an apostle of Jesus wrote to a group of believers that’s what Paul’s epistles are but for a couple personal letters included

they ere Meant to be read like A letter that’s conveying understanding to believers about the gospel they all believed already and formed a church in rome. He says all of this in the letter

It’s a complete message from God through Paul an apostle concerning the Lords gospel. It touches on most of these basic doctrines we should all know because they are foundational and not of the mysterious or complex matters

“Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works,

and of faith toward God,

of the doctrine of baptisms,

and of laying on of hands,

and of resurrection of the dead,

and of eternal judgment.

And this will we do, if God permit.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭6:1-3‬ ‭KJV‬‬

The doctrine is what’s actually written about those subject …eternal judgement. Is always taught the same by Jesus , Paul , Peter , Matthew the ot prophets ect everyone has always taught the same coming judgement for mankind

We have time to repent before we get there and have our sins remitted through baptism , and after that we have Christs doctrine to follow regarding forgivness and eternal life

There are different judgments. One is for the lost.. one for the saved.. one for the saved and faithful.

Lost-- obviously hell. Saved-- a place in heaven... saved and faithful-- in heaven and with more rewards.

The Hebrews 6 verses are about going on to maturity.. leaving the basic doctrines. Perfecting our faith. But the 'falling away' isn't 'lose eternal life'. If it was... a believer now who does fall away.. could never get salvation back again if you interpret the scripture this way.

So yah.. we don't take scripture out of context. That lead up to Hebrews 6 .. in Hebrews is of believers going on to maturity.. so Hebrews 6 is also. Hebrew believers who are being admonished to leave the OT ways and follow after Jesus under the New Testament system of faith.

Not that they are going to lose salvation if they don't.. but will incur earthly wrath discipline. This wrath is often used with fire imagery.. but that doesn't make it being sent to hell. It's earthly, current judgment.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Sure. But the words and deeds are a reflection of who Christ has made them. A new creation doesn't speak and do as an old creation.
Now I do believe we are all given gifts and talents and are expected to improve what the LORD has entrusted us with. But this is what believers will be judged on. We will not give an accounting of our sins. Jesus already did that and there is therefore no condemnation for those in Christ.

“Jesus already did that and there is therefore no condemnation for those in Christ.”

keep reading that scripture

“There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

..Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.

For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die:

but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭8:1, 12-13‬ ‭KJV‬‬

 

[Pilgrimshope]

There are different judgments. One is for the lost.. one for the saved.. one for the saved and faithful.

Lost-- obviously hell. Saved-- a place in heaven... saved and faithful-- in heaven and with more rewards.

The Hebrews 6 verses are about going on to maturity.. leaving the basic doctrines. Perfecting our faith. But the 'falling away' isn't 'lose eternal life'. If it was... a believer now who does fall away.. could never get salvation back again if you interpret the scripture this way.

So yah.. we don't take scripture out of context. That lead up to Hebrews 6 .. in Hebrews is of believers going on to maturity.. so Hebrews 6 is also. Hebrew believers who are being admonished to leave the OT ways and follow after Jesus under the New Testament system of faith.

Not that they are going to lose salvation if they don't.. but will incur earthly wrath discipline. This wrath is often used with fire imagery.. but that doesn't make it being sent to hell. It's earthly, current judgment.

Wow I don’t think I’ve read those scriptures anyways thanks for the time God bless