Can the nonelect ever be born-again? (2 Kings 22:27) With the elect thou wilt be elect: and with the perverse thou wilt be perverted.

[maxamir]

Did The disciples (all but Judas) look and believe?

What did peter say, You have the words of eternal life and we have come to KNOW you are the Christ?

Peter was not alive yet





Oh I believe it, I just do not distort it to mean something it was never intended to mean

In adam all die, even though in Christ shall all be made alive.

please read the Scriptures where Christ confirms that what Peter said had been given to him to say.

Mat 16:16 Simon Peter answered and said, "You are the Christ, the Son of the living God."
Mat 16:17 Jesus answered and said to him, "Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jonah, for flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but My Father who is in heaven.

Without Christ, all are spiritually dead and need to be born again to live and see the kingdom of God (John 3:3).

How can dead people bury the dead?

Mat_8:22 But Jesus said to him, "Follow Me, and let the dead bury their own dead."

 

[maxamir]

I am not. I am boasting in God who saved me..

I trusted completely in him 40 years ago. when will you?


And because they believed, they were born again. Because they trusted God and stopped trusting self.

once again you prove that you believe people and yourself are saved because of your belief rather than God's grace which grants the ability to believe.

Having a head knowledge of Scripture is not the same as having it in your heart.

 

[maxamir]

Yawn.

Chose this day who you will believe

Even Jesus said the people of Jerusalem were not willing..

Trust God or trust your doctrine.

If I was you I would walk away from doctrine and trust God.

thank you for proving that you do not yet know God because if you did you would adhere to His doctrine which is His teaching in Scripture. How can you trust God whom do you do not know if you do not submit to what He says about Himself in His Word?

 

[maxamir]

Looking to Christ IS FAITH. it is the defenition of true saving faith.. you look BECAUSE you have faith.. not to get it..

Stop looking at doctrine. it has you decieved..

Faith is not simply looking to Christ but embracing Him. Many saw Christ and believed in what they saw but did not believe on Him.

You are further confirming your deception by deriding the importance of doctrine which is mentioned 33 times in the New Testament, some of which are mentioned below for to take heed of.

Joh_7:16 Jesus answered them and said, "My doctrine is not Mine, but His who sent Me.
Joh_7:17 If anyone wills to do His will, he shall know concerning the doctrine, whether it is from God or whether I speak on My own authority.
1Ti_4:6 If you instruct the brethren in these things, you will be a good minister of Jesus Christ, nourished in the words of faith and of the good doctrine which you have carefully followed.
1Ti_4:13 Till I come, give attention to reading, to exhortation, to doctrine.
1Ti_4:16 Take heed to yourself and to the doctrine. Continue in them, for in doing this you will save both yourself and those who hear you.
2Ti_3:16 All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness,
2Ti_4:3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine, but according to their own desires, because they have itching ears, they will heap up for themselves teachers;
Tit_1:9 holding fast the faithful word as he has been taught, that he may be able, by sound doctrine, both to exhort and convict those who contradict.
Tit_2:1 But as for you, speak the things which are proper for sound doctrine:
2Jn_1:9 Whoever transgresses and does not abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have God. He who abides in the doctrine of Christ has both the Father and the Son.
2Jn_1:10 If anyone comes to you and does not bring this doctrine, do not receive him into your house nor greet him;

 

[Thunderrr-mental]

thank you for proving that you do not yet know God because if you did you would adhere to His doctrine which is His teaching in Scripture. How can you trust God whom do you do not know if you do not submit to what He says about Himself in His Word?

do you ever quit deciding who is saved

 

[maxamir]

do you ever quit deciding who is saved

I only judge according to Scripture and the fruit that is seen compared to it and not my own judgement. It is not for me to condemn anyone. My duty is to proclaim the truth of Scripture even if people hate its truth. Don't blame me if you feel condemned, I am the Postman and only deliver the letters, not write them.

It is better to be slapped with the truth than kissed with a lie!

Pro_9:8b Rebuke a wise man, and he will love you.

 

[Thunderrr-mental]

I only judge according to Scripture and the fruit that is seen compared to it and not my own judgement. It is not for me to condemn anyone. My duty is to proclaim the truth of Scripture even if people hate its truth. Don't blame me if you feel condemned, I am the Postman and only deliver the letters, not write them.

It is better to be slapped with the truth than kissed with a lie!

Pro_9:8b Rebuke a wise man, and he will love you.

honestly your so much of a hypocrite it's unreal

All you ever do is decide who is not of God here

Are you a Jew with a beaf or something.

All you ever do is attack Christian beliefs

 

[maxamir]

honestly your so much of a hypocrite it's unreal

All you ever do is decide who is not of God here

Are you a Jew with a beaf or something.

All you ever do is attack Christian beliefs

I only seek to bring to light what the Scriptures say and do not condemn anyone.

All Christians are called to judge righteously according to the Word of God and not their feelings or the way of the world around them.

Christ said to let your light shine before others but you somehow think that does not include among those who call themselves Christians who may have been deceived by false doctrine and are in need of loving exhortation and correction.

1Co 5:12 For what have I to do with judging those also who are outside? Do you not judge those who are inside?

 

[Thunderrr-mental]

I only seek to bring to light what the Scriptures say and do not condemn anyone.

All Christians are called to judge righteously according to the Word of God and not their feelings or the way of the world around them.

Christ said to let your light shine before others but you somehow think that does not include among those who call themselves Christians who may have been deceived by false doctrine and are in need of loving exhortation and correction.

1Co 5:12 For what have I to do with judging those also who are outside? Do you not judge those who are inside?

View attachment 263489

yes I think where you probably go wrong is not understanding that unless it's God who's Judging you don't have the authority
.

 

[Thunderrr-mental]

I only seek to bring to light what the Scriptures say and do not condemn anyone.

All Christians are called to judge righteously according to the Word of God and not their feelings or the way of the world around them.

Christ said to let your light shine before others but you somehow think that does not include among those who call themselves Christians who may have been deceived by false doctrine and are in need of loving exhortation and correction.

1Co 5:12 For what have I to do with judging those also who are outside? Do you not judge those who are inside?

View attachment 263489

Where does revalation 2:2 say Judge false Christians ?

What does righteous judgement mean, should it not mean with his judgement,

As in you seek his wisdom first

Or does it mean posting a revalation verse 2;2 that doesn't exist in this picture

I take it your judgement was not sound here ?.

 

[MikeIsraelite72]

i originally wanted to reply regarding the usage of “born again” which is a mistranslation, the greek ἄνωθεν anothen “from above.” The word is formed from ἄνω “above” + -θεν, a suffix denoting origin of motion from a locality, hence “from above.”

this concept is why Jesus challenged nicodemus’ understanding of Gods word being a high priest but he affirmed that we must be born of the water, our physical birthing, but also of the Spirit and this has its origin with the father as he knows us while in the womb.

Psalm 22:10
“I was cast upon thee from the womb: thou art my God from my mother's belly.”

Galatians 1:15
“But when it pleased God, who separated me from my mother's womb, and called me by his grace”

Ephesians 1:4,5
“4According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: 5Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will“

Romans 8:29,30
“ 29For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. 30Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.”

Romans 9:3-5
“For I could wish that myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh: 4Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises; 5Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came”

Not everybody has an origin with the father but from the very beginning it is all about HIS choosing and his election, although those he chose could not honor the covenant, in His sovereign power and foreknowledge was Christ, “the lamb slain before the foundation of the world” to redeem HIS people, both the house of israel and the house of judah of whom God kept his promises to abraham that his seed, through Jacob, would become many nations and God by His grace and mercy will bring his people to glory as is prophecied

. As christians we should be looking through the word in order to find who the people of God are today, those that he has established the houses of israel and judah. the house of Esau are the sworn enemies of Gods people throughout every generation until the last, they are the tares among the wheat whom Jesus identified in the parable of the wheat and tares, these are NOT his sheep and soo through every generation they will NOT hear his voice.

i didn’t want to go way off topic because there is soo much scripture that testifies of this epic struggle between Jacob and Esau, it is the very heart of the second coming of our King and it goes all the way back to Cain which both Jesus declared and Jude spoke of the same. Our God has a long resume of his interactions with his people and 99% of the 501C churches don’t even make mention or acknowledge the will of our God and His plan for His people. I get soo excited and passionate discussing the word of God with my brethren but many do not want to hear it. They would rather cling to the doctrine of men that hinge on cherry picked verses interpreted completely out of context historically and factually. I lost my marriage to the doctrine of men and my familial relationships have been very strained all because they don’t read their bible!

I hope that i can find a kindred spirit and i would like elaborate scripturally on these topics if anybody is interested. May the peace of Jesus rest on your shoulders…

 

[Thunderrr-mental]

i originally wanted to reply regarding the usage of “born again” which is a mistranslation, the greek ἄνωθεν anothen “from above.” The word is formed from ἄνω “above” + -θεν, a suffix denoting origin of motion from a locality, hence “from above.”

this concept is why Jesus challenged nicodemus’ understanding of Gods word being a high priest but he affirmed that we must be born of the water, our physical birthing, but also of the Spirit and this has its origin with the father as he knows us while in the womb.

Psalm 22:10
“I was cast upon thee from the womb: thou art my God from my mother's belly.”

Galatians 1:15
“But when it pleased God, who separated me from my mother's womb, and called me by his grace”

Ephesians 1:4,5
“4According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: 5Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will“

Romans 8:29,30
“ 29For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. 30Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.”

Romans 9:3-5
“For I could wish that myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh: 4Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises; 5Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came”

Not everybody has an origin with the father but from the very beginning it is all about HIS choosing and his election, although those he chose could not honor the covenant, in His sovereign power and foreknowledge was Christ, “the lamb slain before the foundation of the world” to redeem HIS people, both the house of israel and the house of judah of whom God kept his promises to abraham that his seed, through Jacob, would become many nations and God by His grace and mercy will bring his people to glory as is prophecied

. As christians we should be looking through the word in order to find who the people of God are today, those that he has established the houses of israel and judah. the house of Esau are the sworn enemies of Gods people throughout every generation until the last, they are the tares among the wheat whom Jesus identified in the parable of the wheat and tares, these are NOT his sheep and soo through every generation they will NOT hear his voice.

i didn’t want to go way off topic because there is soo much scripture that testifies of this epic struggle between Jacob and Esau, it is the very heart of the second coming of our King and it goes all the way back to Cain which both Jesus declared and Jude spoke of the same. Our God has a long resume of his interactions with his people and 99% of the 501C churches don’t even make mention or acknowledge the will of our God and His plan for His people. I get soo excited and passionate discussing the word of God with my brethren but many do not want to hear it. They would rather cling to the doctrine of men that hinge on cherry picked verses interpreted completely out of context historically and factually. I lost my marriage to the doctrine of men and my familial relationships have been very strained all because they don’t read their bible!

I hope that i can find a kindred spirit and i would like elaborate scripturally on these topics if anybody is interested. May the peace of Jesus rest on your shoulders…

I think you've probably missed the blessing of Esau's
.
Also being born of water and spirit is the same thing



And as for Ishmael, I have heard you: I will surely bless him; I will make him fruitful and will greatly increase his numbers. He will be the father of twelve rulers, and I will make him into a great nation.

39 Isaac his father answered him,
“Behold, your dwelling will be of the fatness of the earth,
and of the dew of the sky from above.


Genesis 36 verses 6 - 9

6 Esau took his wives, his sons, his daughters, and all the members of his household, with his livestock, all his animals, and all his possessions, which he had gathered in the land of Canaan, and went into a land away from his brother Jacob. 7 For their substance was too great for them to dwell together, and the land of their travels couldn’t bear them because of their livestock. 8 Esau lived in the hill country of Seir. Esau is Edom.
9 This is the history of the generations of Esau the father of the Edomites in the hill country of Seir:

Deuteronomy 2 verse 5

5 Don’t contend with them; for I will not give you any of their land, no, not so much as for the sole of the foot to tread on, because I have given Mount Seir to Esau for a possession.

I gave to Isaac Jacob and Esau: and I gave to Esau Mount Seir, to possess it. Jacob and his children went down into Egypt.

 

[Thunderrr-mental]

i originally wanted to reply regarding the usage of “born again” which is a mistranslation, the greek ἄνωθεν anothen “from above.” The word is formed from ἄνω “above” + -θεν, a suffix denoting origin of motion from a locality, hence “from above.”

this concept is why Jesus challenged nicodemus’ understanding of Gods word being a high priest but he affirmed that we must be born of the water, our physical birthing, but also of the Spirit and this has its origin with the father as he knows us while in the womb.

Psalm 22:10
“I was cast upon thee from the womb: thou art my God from my mother's belly.”

Galatians 1:15
“But when it pleased God, who separated me from my mother's womb, and called me by his grace”

Ephesians 1:4,5
“4According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: 5Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will“

Romans 8:29,30
“ 29For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. 30Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.”

Romans 9:3-5
“For I could wish that myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh: 4Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises; 5Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came”

Not everybody has an origin with the father but from the very beginning it is all about HIS choosing and his election, although those he chose could not honor the covenant, in His sovereign power and foreknowledge was Christ, “the lamb slain before the foundation of the world” to redeem HIS people, both the house of israel and the house of judah of whom God kept his promises to abraham that his seed, through Jacob, would become many nations and God by His grace and mercy will bring his people to glory as is prophecied

. As christians we should be looking through the word in order to find who the people of God are today, those that he has established the houses of israel and judah. the house of Esau are the sworn enemies of Gods people throughout every generation until the last, they are the tares among the wheat whom Jesus identified in the parable of the wheat and tares, these are NOT his sheep and soo through every generation they will NOT hear his voice.

i didn’t want to go way off topic because there is soo much scripture that testifies of this epic struggle between Jacob and Esau, it is the very heart of the second coming of our King and it goes all the way back to Cain which both Jesus declared and Jude spoke of the same. Our God has a long resume of his interactions with his people and 99% of the 501C churches don’t even make mention or acknowledge the will of our God and His plan for His people. I get soo excited and passionate discussing the word of God with my brethren but many do not want to hear it. They would rather cling to the doctrine of men that hinge on cherry picked verses interpreted completely out of context historically and factually. I lost my marriage to the doctrine of men and my familial relationships have been very strained all because they don’t read their bible!

I hope that i can find a kindred spirit and i would like elaborate scripturally on these topics if anybody is interested. May the peace of Jesus rest on your shoulders…

I think you've probably missed the blessing of Esau's
.
Also being born of water and spirit is the same thing



And as for Ishmael, I have heard you: I will surely bless him; I will make him fruitful and will greatly increase his numbers. He will be the father of twelve rulers, and I will make him into a great nation.

39 Isaac his father answered him,
“Behold, your dwelling will be of the fatness of the earth,
and of the dew of the sky from above.


Genesis 36 verses 6 - 9

6 Esau took his wives, his sons, his daughters, and all the members of his household, with his livestock, all his animals, and all his possessions, which he had gathered in the land of Canaan, and went into a land away from his brother Jacob. 7 For their substance was too great for them to dwell together, and the land of their travels couldn’t bear them because of their livestock. 8 Esau lived in the hill country of Seir. Esau is Edom.
9 This is the history of the generations of Esau the father of the Edomites in the hill country of Seir:

Deuteronomy 2 verse 5

5 Don’t contend with them; for I will not give you any of their land, no, not so much as for the sole of the foot to tread on, because I have given Mount Seir to Esau for a possession.

I gave to Isaac Jacob and Esau: and I gave to Esau Mount Seir, to possess it. Jacob and his children went down into Egypt.

 

[rogerg]

his people

So, just to be clear, MikeIsraeliete72, when you say, "his people", do you have in mind earthly Israel or spiritual,
heavenly Israel?

 

[MikeIsraelite72]

I think you've probably missed the blessing of Esau's
.
Also being born of water and spirit is the same thing



And as for Ishmael, I have heard you: I will surely bless him; I will make him fruitful and will greatly increase his numbers. He will be the father of twelve rulers, and I will make him into a great nation.

39 Isaac his father answered him,
“Behold, your dwelling will be of the fatness of the earth,
and of the dew of the sky from above.


Genesis 36 verses 6 - 9

6 Esau took his wives, his sons, his daughters, and all the members of his household, with his livestock, all his animals, and all his possessions, which he had gathered in the land of Canaan, and went into a land away from his brother Jacob. 7 For their substance was too great for them to dwell together, and the land of their travels couldn’t bear them because of their livestock. 8 Esau lived in the hill country of Seir. Esau is Edom.
9 This is the history of the generations of Esau the father of the Edomites in the hill country of Seir:

Deuteronomy 2 verse 5

5 Don’t contend with them; for I will not give you any of their land, no, not so much as for the sole of the foot to tread on, because I have given Mount Seir to Esau for a possession.

I gave to Isaac Jacob and Esau: and I gave to Esau Mount Seir, to possess it. Jacob and his children went down into Egypt.

I think you've probably missed the blessing of Esau's
.
Also being born of water and spirit is the same thing



And as for Ishmael, I have heard you: I will surely bless him; I will make him fruitful and will greatly increase his numbers. He will be the father of twelve rulers, and I will make him into a great nation.

39 Isaac his father answered him,
“Behold, your dwelling will be of the fatness of the earth,
and of the dew of the sky from above.


Genesis 36 verses 6 - 9

6 Esau took his wives, his sons, his daughters, and all the members of his household, with his livestock, all his animals, and all his possessions, which he had gathered in the land of Canaan, and went into a land away from his brother Jacob. 7 For their substance was too great for them to dwell together, and the land of their travels couldn’t bear them because of their livestock. 8 Esau lived in the hill country of Seir. Esau is Edom.
9 This is the history of the generations of Esau the father of the Edomites in the hill country of Seir:

Deuteronomy 2 verse 5

5 Don’t contend with them; for I will not give you any of their land, no, not so much as for the sole of the foot to tread on, because I have given Mount Seir to Esau for a possession.

I gave to Isaac Jacob and Esau: and I gave to Esau Mount Seir, to possess it. Jacob and his children went down into Egypt.

i don’t deny that ishmael as well as esau were given blessing as well but their destinies differ from Jacob, the seed that sprang from Jacob are the children of promise, these are those that God “elected” and these are those that are spoken of by all the prophets, those that came from the seed of Jacob are the only ones given any covenant and also the only ones known by God.

JER. 31:31-34
“Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: 32Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD: 33But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people. 34And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.”

AMOS 3:1-3
“1Hear this word that the LORD hath spoken against you, O children of Israel, against the whole family which I brought up from the land of Egypt, saying,
2You only have I known of all the families of the earth: therefore I will punish you for all your iniquities.
3Can two walk together, except they be agreed?”

Esau sold his birthright and more importantly mingle his seed committing formation with the strange wives he took of the Hittites who were Canaanites essentially of mixed seed and by doing this Esau changed his destiny and although he was repentant, God did not hear his voice. When the Israelites marched through Mt Seir they were commanded to let them alone cuz God did give that land as am inheritance to Esau but only on account of keeping his promise to Abraham. The Isrselites were being taken by God to their inheritance, the land of Canaan.

Hebrews 12:16,17
“Lest there be any fornicator, or profane person, as Esau, who for one morsel of meat sold his birthright. 17For ye know how that afterward, when he would have inherited the blessing, he was rejected: for he found no place of repentance, though he sought it carefully with tears.”

Romans 9:6-13
“Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel: 7Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called. 8That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed. 9For this is the word of promise, At this time will I come, and Sara shall have a son. 10And not only this; but when Rebecca also had conceived by one, even by our father Isaac; 11(For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth 12It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger. 13As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.

We either have origin with the Father or we don’t but regardless of that fact we all have a destiny and it has all been decided by the foreknowledge of God. Esau was hated while still in the womb because God knows the end from the beginning and he knew the evil of Esau and his seed before any evil was committed but he loved Jacob, Although Jacob would break his covenant and God would cast him off, Jesus Christ was had already been slain before the foundation of the world and He would be the redeemer of his brethren and God will bring the children of Israel to glory as described in prophecy when He comes again to destroy Esaus offspring forever and restore the kingdom to the children of Israel, all of this being by the will of the Father, not the will of men. That is what makes it so beautiful and awesome.

Obidiah 1 is the primary reference i would use and i encourage everybody to read it however i can offer much more scripture from Revelation and Isaiah as well but i will leave it here unless anybody would like to discuss this further. Praise YHWH, the Holy One of Israel🙏🙏🙏

 

[Thunderrr-mental]

i don’t deny that ishmael as well as esau were given blessing as well but their destinies differ from Jacob, the seed that sprang from Jacob are the children of promise, these are those that God “elected” and these are those that are spoken of by all the prophets, those that came from the seed of Jacob are the only ones given any covenant and also the only ones known by God.

JER. 31:31-34
“Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: 32Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD: 33But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people. 34And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.”

AMOS 3:1-3
“1Hear this word that the LORD hath spoken against you, O children of Israel, against the whole family which I brought up from the land of Egypt, saying,
2You only have I known of all the families of the earth: therefore I will punish you for all your iniquities.
3Can two walk together, except they be agreed?”

Esau sold his birthright and more importantly mingle his seed committing formation with the strange wives he took of the Hittites who were Canaanites essentially of mixed seed and by doing this Esau changed his destiny and although he was repentant, God did not hear his voice. When the Israelites marched through Mt Seir they were commanded to let them alone cuz God did give that land as am inheritance to Esau but only on account of keeping his promise to Abraham. The Isrselites were being taken by God to their inheritance, the land of Canaan.

Hebrews 12:16,17
“Lest there be any fornicator, or profane person, as Esau, who for one morsel of meat sold his birthright. 17For ye know how that afterward, when he would have inherited the blessing, he was rejected: for he found no place of repentance, though he sought it carefully with tears.”

Romans 9:6-13
“Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel: 7Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called. 8That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed. 9For this is the word of promise, At this time will I come, and Sara shall have a son. 10And not only this; but when Rebecca also had conceived by one, even by our father Isaac; 11(For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth12It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger. 13As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.

We either have origin with the Father or we don’t but regardless of that fact we all have a destiny and it has all been decided by the foreknowledge of God. Esau was hated while still in the womb because God knows the end from the beginning and he knew the evil of Esau and his seed before any evil was committed but he loved Jacob, Although Jacob would break his covenant and God would cast him off, Jesus Christ was had already been slain before the foundation of the world and He would be the redeemer of his brethren and God will bring the children of Israel to glory as described in prophecy when He comes again to destroy Esaus offspring forever and restore the kingdom to the children of Israel, all of this being by the will of the Father, not the will of men. That is what makes it so beautiful and awesome.

Obidiah 1 is the primary reference i would use and i encourage everybody to read it however i can offer much more scripture from Revelation and Isaiah as well but i will leave it here unless anybody would like to discuss this further. Praise YHWH, the Holy One of Israel🙏🙏🙏

yes you denied Esau blessing because you decide he was evil, all Destinies start of in the book of life

As in born of water and spirit

But the spirit needs to be reborn

Get it ?

I gave to Isaac Jacob and Esau: and I gave to Esau Mount Seir, to possess it. Jacob and his children went down into Egypt.

 

[MikeIsraelite72]

So, just to be clear, MikeIsraeliete72, when you say, "his people", do you have in mind earthly Israel or spiritual,
heavenly Israel?

The same “people” described as his sheep and his elect all throughout the prophets are the same people in the new testament, their is no spiritual seed or spiritual Israel. the ministry of Jesus and those of his disciples was to tell the scattered israelites, the offspring of the 12 tribes of israel, that they have been redeemed and it is a call to repentance and to return to their God as prophecied by Isaiah and Ezekiel.

Acts 26:6,7
“And now I stand and am judged for the hope of the promise made of God unto our fathers: 7Unto which promise our twelve tribes, instantly serving God day and night, hope to come. For which hope's sake, king Agrippa, I am accused of the Jews. 8Why should it be thought a thing incredible with you, that God should raise the dead?”

Romans 9:1-5
“ I say the truth in Christ, I lie not, my conscience also bearing me witness in the Holy Ghost, 2That I have great heaviness and continual sorrow in my heart. 3For I could wish that myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh: 4Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises; 5Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen

Pauls ministry was clear and he stated it continually, he makes a clear distinction between the 12 tribes of Jacob and the Jews who were Edomites, of Esau. He was to go to the many nations where God had scattered the Israelites and deliver the “good news” of the gospel. He makes it clear that whether it be an uncircumcised Greek or a circumcised Judean, that they have been redeemed through the blood of Christ. The rituals of the levitical law has been fulfilled in Christ He being the one and only high priest.

The is no prophecy of any covenant to be made with anybody else other than the house of Israel and the house of Judah. Old and new covenants were made with the same people. Saying anything else is reading the scripture out of context historically and factually, the seed of jacob would become many nations as promised by God, not that many nations would become the seed. That is the doctrine of spiritual Israel and that is not in agreement with the covanent made with abraham. we can’t just write whoever we want into the covenant.

The NT ministry was exclusively to gather the 12 tribes back to their God and all the disciples confirm this.

James 1:1
“1James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad, greeting.”

Matthew 1:21
“1And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.”

Matthew 2:5,6
“And they said unto him, In Bethlehem of Judaea: for thus it is written by the prophet,
6And thou Bethlehem, in the land of Juda, art not the least among the princes of Juda: for out of thee shall come a Governor, that shall rule my people Israel.”

Here is Paul addressing the assembly in Corinth, he makes it absolutely clear that these greeks are of the dispersed Israelites.

1 Corinthians 10:1-4
“Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea; 2And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea; 3And did all eat the same spiritual meat; 4And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ. 5But with many of them God was not well pleased: for they were overthrown in the wilderness.”

Im going to stop here cuz if i don’t ill end up citing way too much scripture for one post, if anybody wants to continue the discussion i’d love to exchange ideas, it should be noted that it was common knowledge at the time of Jesus where the scattered Israelites were located and it is attested to by the jewish historian Josephus snd also the Greek histotian Strabo, consider also that many scattered Israelites held onto their identity and would travel to jerusalem once every year to show themselves before God. i wanted to make that clear because at no time are Jesus’ sheep lost, they can always be found in every generation as is the will of God. Praise YHWH peace be with all my brethren 🙏

 

[rogerg]

The same “people” described as his sheep and his elect all throughout the prophets are the same people in the new testament, their is no spiritual seed or spiritual Israel. the ministry of Jesus and those of his disciples was to tell the scattered israelites, the offspring of the 12 tribes of israel, that they have been redeemed and it is a call to repentance and to return to their God as prophecied by Isaiah and Ezekiel.

Disagree. God divorced the earthly nation of Israel because of their spiritual fornication. Once divorced, earthly Israel's relationship
with Him, to include the earthly Jews (just because they are earthly Jews), ended.

[Jer 3:7-8 KJV]
7 And I said after she had done all these [things], Turn thou unto me. But she returned not. And her treacherous sister Judah saw [it].
8 And I saw, when for all the causes whereby backsliding Israel committed adultery I had put her away, and given her a bill of divorce; yet her treacherous sister Judah feared not, but went and played the harlot also.

[Col 3:10-12 KJV]
10 And have put on the new [man], which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him:
11 Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond [nor] free: but Christ [is] all, and in all.
12 Put on therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, bowels of mercies, kindness, humbleness of mind, meekness, longsuffering;

[Gal 6:14-16 KJV]
14 But God forbid that I should glory, save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world is crucified unto me, and I unto the world.
15 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature.
16 And as many as walk according to this rule, peace [be] on them, and mercy, and upon the Israel of God.

[Rev 21:1-3 KJV]
1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God [is] with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, [and be] their God.

 

[MikeIsraelite72]

yes you denied Esau blessing because you decide he was evil, all Destinies start of in the book of life

As in born of water and spirit

But the spirit needs to be reborn

Get it ?

I gave to Isaac Jacob and Esau: and I gave to Esau Mount Seir, to possess it. Jacob and his children went down into Egypt.

there is no “born again”, it is “born from above” and not everybody on this earth is “born from above” you ignored the scripture i cited that it was understood between the disciples that esau and his offspring were hated from the womb, you ignored that although esau saught repentence in tears he found it not. you ignore the words of Jesus himself when he declared that they do not hear his words because they are not his sheep! do you ever wonder how a people can hate jesus christ from generation to generation? jesus told them although they were the seed of abraham they do not do the works of abraham, they do the works of their father the devil. GET IT!???

if you aren’t going to acknowledge the scripture that is cited and you just want to respond emotionally then im not going to waste my time, there are people struggling in darkness but thirsty for the truth of God and they deserve edification through Gods word soo that it stands on its own disregarding your emotions.

“born again” is a mistranslation and was never taught by christ or his disciples. jesus scolded nicodemus for asking a stupid question about a 2nd birth when being a teacher of scripture he should have already understood what jesus was talking about.

“born from above” being the words Jesus spoke and held up by old and new testament scripture is the topic we are discussing. if you are going to respond using words Jesus NEVER spoke nor taught then don’t waste everybody else’s time who is trying to learn. I bind the spirit of confusion in the name of jesus and i bind the anti-christ spirit that attempts to contend with the word of God!
Praise YHWH

 

[Thunderrr-mental]

there is no “born again”, it is “born from above” and not everybody on this earth is “born from above” you ignored the scripture i cited that it was understood between the disciples that esau and his offspring were hated from the womb, you ignored that although esau saught repentence in tears he found it not. you ignore the words of Jesus himself when he declared that they do not hear his words because they are not his sheep! do you ever wonder how a people can hate jesus christ from generation to generation? jesus told them although they were the seed of abraham they do not do the works of abraham, they do the works of their father the devil. GET IT!???

if you aren’t going to acknowledge the scripture that is cited and you just want to respond emotionally then im not going to waste my time, there are people struggling in darkness but thirsty for the truth of God and they deserve edification through Gods word soo that it stands on its own disregarding your emotions.

“born again” is a mistranslation and was never taught by christ or his disciples. jesus scolded nicodemus for asking a stupid question about a 2nd birth when being a teacher of scripture he should have already understood what jesus was talking about.

“born from above” being the words Jesus spoke and held up by old and new testament scripture is the topic we are discussing. if you are going to respond using words Jesus NEVER spoke nor taught then don’t waste everybody else’s time who is trying to learn. I bind the spirit of confusion in the name of jesus and i bind the anti-christ spirit that attempts to contend with the word of God!
Praise YHWH

I never ignored anything ..

Do you believe all life is in the book of life to begin with