The 'ELECT' vs 'Free-Choice'

[awelight]

Only to you and the Reformed. But Jesus was the only one who existed before the world was created. And He was chosen to be Savior at that time.

Don't believe the literal words of Scripture. That's on you not me. The sentence clearly says what the sentence says.

As too your point... God is Eternal. Every thought and action of God has been - is - and shall ever be in His mind. There was never a time when He did not know everyone and everything.

 

[FollowerofShiloh]

Again that's not giving me a choice that's throwing a hammer 🙂

Where did your choice come from

You're missing the point. It doesn't matter where any choice comes from. It only matter what choice you choose. And choosing is the free will part.

 

[Niki7]

But they in a sense become elect. Not like, say, Paul.

so now you have folks becoming like God and electing themself...but just in a sense of course

keep talkin' it's really getting interesting now

 

[listenyoumustAll]

Jesus is speaking to His Disciples in John 15.

Yes but every word of God is not cased in time . its man that's limited to time . . those words were spoken by the Jesus for all his believers

 

[FollowerofShiloh]

Don't believe the literal words of Scripture. That's on you not me. The sentence clearly says what the sentence says.

As too your point... God is Eternal. Every thought and action of God has been - is - and shall ever be in His mind. There was never a time when He did not know everyone and everything.

That is the literal words in Scripture.

...us in Him.
Who is in Him?
Jesus.

Jesus is who is predestined to be Savior, not us.

 

[Thunderrr-mental]

You're missing the point. It doesn't matter where any choice comes from. It only matter what choice you choose. And choosing is the free will part.

ok


And if you faithfully obey the voice of the Lord your God, being careful to do all his commandments that I command you today, the Lord your God will set you high above all the nations of the earth.

Who's choice is this and who hears the voice of the lord ?

Is it just one person

 

[2ndTimeIsTheCharm]

You said: It's all according to our free will and our level of willingness.

That is so wrong in so many ways but I doubt you really care to know why. Simply though - to put it the way you said it, would make it a "work" and not "Grace". Your "choice" and "willingness" shares in God's Glory. Yet, God deserves ALL the Glory. What would that look like in Salvation?

You're right, I don't care what you have to say, lol! You see things from a carnal POV.

It's not work if one submits to the Holy Spirit. Our calling can be accomplished only through the Holy Spirit and when it's done in God's will and His power and might, then it's not in our own flesh and therefore not our work. We just have to be willing to be available to God. Otherwise, God will find someone else who is willing.


🥧

 

[selahsays]

You added the last part after I posted, so I'll reply now.

Acts 9:10 In Damascus there was a disciple named Ananias. The Lord called to him in a vision, “Ananias!”

“Yes, Lord,” he answered.

11 The Lord told him, “Go to the house of Judas on Straight Street and ask for a man from Tarsus named Saul, for he is praying. 12 In a vision he has seen a man named Ananias come and place his hands on him to restore his sight.”

13 “Lord,” Ananias answered, “I have heard many reports about this man and all the harm he has done to your holy people in Jerusalem. 14 And he has come here with authority from the chief priests to arrest all who call on your name.”

15 But the Lord said to Ananias, “Go! This man is my chosen instrument to proclaim my name to the Gentiles and their kings and to the people of Israel. 16 I will show him how much he must suffer for my name.”

This doesn't show that Paull didn't have a choice. God chose Paul because Paul was willing, and God knew to the degree that Paul was willing to go for Him - enough to suffer very much for Him, even execution.


Remember that you are post-trib. We both know that many will fall away from God and that if we remain loyal that we could very likely be persecuted by the world and executed by the antichrist's authority. But hadn't you already made up your mind that you wouldn't want to be one of the apostate and instead choose to suffer and/or die for God rather than succumb to the antichrist and his mark of the beast?

We have the free will and we choose to follow and serve God. We are therefore also the elect (just not a fancy calling).


🥧

You don’t believe in the biblical election. Okay.

 

[FollowerofShiloh]

Yes but every word of God is not cased in time . its man that's limited to time . . those words were spoken by the Jesus for all his believers

Jesus hand picked His Disciples. You were not hand picked how Jesus is describing. So this is specifically about Jesus telling His Disciples what He did and why they are important for the Role they have been picked to do.

But I also agree we can glean from this. We were just not hand picked by Jesus like the chapter is indicating.

 

[Thunderrr-mental]

You can't use Adam in this example you are trying to make. He had free agency because he had not fallen yet and therefore mankind has not fallen yet.

really who's using Adam

Adam was every man at that time was he not 🙂

 

[awelight]

That is the literal words in Scripture.

...us in Him.
Who is in Him?
Jesus.

Jesus is who is predestined to be Savior, not us.

Wow dude, you have completely lost me. The first chapter of Ephesians is talking about Christ and believers. You really need to go back and read the entire chapter again.

 

[selahsays]

so now you have folks becoming like God and electing themself...but just in a sense of course

keep talkin' it's really getting interesting now

Why are you so angry? Anyone who comes to Christ is Elect.

 

[2ndTimeIsTheCharm]

You don’t believe in the biblical election. Okay.

You're just making false accusations to try to save face. Why do that and make things worse for yourselff? Anyone who comes to the Lord and gets saved IS the elect.


🥧

 

[Thunderrr-mental]

Jesus hand picked His Disciples. You were not hand picked how Jesus is describing. So this is specifically about Jesus telling His Disciples what He did and why they are important for the Role they have been picked to do.

But I also agree we can glean from this. We were just not hand picked by Jesus like the chapter is indicating.

oh is there any chance the same character in God was not here when he picked them. Did they have a choice to be picked

The Call of Jeremiah
4 The word of the Lord came to me, saying,
5 “Before I formed you in the womb I knew[a] you,
before you were born I set you apart;
I appointed you as a prophet to the nations.”

 

[FollowerofShiloh]

ok


And if you faithfully obey the voice of the Lord your God, being careful to do all his commandments that I command you today, the Lord your God will set you high above all the nations of the earth.

Who's choice is this and who hears the voice of the lord ?

Is it just one person

I will give you 10 dollars to go to the corner and back.
Even if you do it for the 10 dollars you still chose to do it.
That was free will.

 

[Cameron143]

Bible say's he was a donkey herder, a nobody, a Benjamite, and the people of Israel did not even know who Saul was until God sent Samuel to get him and present him to them.

All that is true. But God picked Saul on behalf of the people. The people were in open rebellion against God and God gave them the leadership they asked for. Had God chosen to put forth David at that time, the people would have rejected him. David was a puny lad and Saul stood a head over the other people. They looked upon appearance and not as God does. But God makes plain that the people are in rebellion and that getting a king would be a heavy yoke upon them.
It wasn't God's choice to institute a king, and had He chosen according to His manner, Saul would never have been considered.

 

[awelight]

really who's using Adam

Adam was every man at that time was he not 🙂

Adam is considered, in Theology, to be mankind's "Federal Head"

 

[FollowerofShiloh]

oh is there any chance the same character in God was not here when he picked them. Did they have a choice to be picked

The Call of Jeremiah
4 The word of the Lord came to me, saying,
5 “Before I formed you in the womb I knew[a] you,
before you were born I set you apart;
I appointed you as a prophet to the nations.”

God knows the End from the Beginning so He knows everyone to be born.

 

[Thunderrr-mental]

I will give you 10 dollars to go to the corner and back.
Even if you do it for the 10 dollars you still chose to do it.
That was free will.

your giving me a choice but where did that knowledge come from.

 

[FollowerofShiloh]

All that is true. But God picked Saul on behalf of the people. The people were in open rebellion against God and God gave them the leadership they asked for. Had God chosen to put forth David at that time, the people would have rejected him. David was a puny lad and Saul stood a head over the other people. They looked upon appearance and not as God does. But God makes plain that the people are in rebellion and that getting a king would be a heavy yoke upon them.
It wasn't God's choice to institute a king, and had He chosen according to His manner, Saul would never have been considered.

Definitely agree the people were in rebellion and God fixed them up lol