Did Jesus Have an Advantage over Pre-Fall Adam During the Incarnation?

[sawdust]

That is a lie. A big one.

Frankly your position has already been relegated to the trash bin.

No, I went back through your posts to me to make sure I wasn't remembering incorrectly and you have not quoted one single verse to counter "the Son can do nothing on His own".

Which position is that? That the Lord Jesus Christ is both fully God and fully man eternally or that during the Incarnation He stated He could do nothing of Himself?

 

[PaulThomson]

Destroy this temple and in three days I will raise it up.

??

Does the context say the "temple" was Jesus soul? or His body? Who does scripture say took Jesus' soul/life from hades and put it back into His body? Who does scripture say raised up Jesus' body/temple from the stone slab it was lying on?

 

[PaulThomson]

we may be trying to oversimplify something that's beyond our comprehension; He also is the Spirit, and He also is the Father - the equivalence never ceases even while the distinction is always present too.

with reference to Galatians 2:20, it is not the same for Christ. we say we no longer live, but Christ in us, because we have sinful natures that must be redeemed, through His death and resurrection. But Christ has no sinful nature to be put to death; He doesn't have a will that must be crucified. His nature and will is the nature and will of God, perfect. He cannot be tempted with sin: He was tested in every way and found pure.

You seem to be rejecting any distinction between the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit. If so, we are starting from quite different presuppositions.

 

[PaulThomson]

The supposed contradiction is that of your vivid imagination.

BTW.....conflict/paradox resolution occurs in higher dimensional space. You know.....where the Trinity resides?
You might want to look into that.

Your cognitive dissonance is obvious, in your refusal to address its source.

 

[PaulThomson]

sawdust said:
He denied Himself the right to act as God and instead relied on the power and authority of God the Father and Spirit for all that He said and did.

that position can't answer these questions:

why does He never once say "thus saith the LORD"?

why does He always say "Amen Amen I say unto you"?

No one on CC ever says "Thus saith the Lord...." unless quoting scripture. Many hear speak as though they are speaking the truth of god, without prefacing their view with "Thus says the Lord." Does that mean we are all acting as God when we say what we believe God thinks?

He doesn't always say "Amen, amen. I say to you."

 

[cv5]

Your cognitive dissonance is obvious, in your refusal to address its source.

Both of you are on ignore. Your word salads dressed with ignorance is turning my stomach.

 

[sawdust]

Both of you are on ignore. Your word salads dressed with ignorance is turning my stomach.

Thanks. Much appreciated.

 

[PaulThomson]

From whence did you conjure up this idea? Out of your own imagination?

It is simply one logical inference from the wording of the texts I cited.

 

[PaulThomson]

Both of you are on ignore. Your word salads dressed with ignorance is turning my stomach.

Cognitive dissonance turns the logic aimed at it into a word salad.

 

[Mem]

As a man, did Jesus have to earn His inheritance? or was He born with it? What reward did He receive for living a perfect life? And, did He leave HIs inheritance, as the Son of Man, to us? or His inheritance as the Son of God?

 

[Charlie_2024]

Was that an apology?

I have provided scripture showing the Son can do nothing on His own authority. You have provided nothing but your opinion.

But you're still denying what god said, because it doesn't fit into your false narrative. You just refuse to answer the charge, you half answered it but a half truth is a lie.

Was Jesus still God while He walked the earth, the answer must be yes or no. God hates lies, He said let your yes be yes and your no be no. Anything apart from these is of the Devil. You're trying to push half truths which God warned are of the Devil.

 

[PaulThomson]

But you're still denying what god said, because it doesn't fit into your false narrative. You just refuse to answer the charge, you half answered it but a half truth is a lie.

Was Jesus still God while He walked the earth, the answer must be yes or no. God hates lies, He said let your yes be yes and your no be no. Anything apart from these is of the Devil. You're trying to push half truths which God warned are of the Devil.

Jesus was God. But you are trying to dictate to God as to how he must exercise his deity to be a kind of God you will recognise as God. You are dictating that a God worthy of your worship must never give up His use of His own omnipotence and rely on someone else's power.

 

[PaulThomson]

As a man, did Jesus have to earn His inheritance? or was He born with it? What reward did He receive for living a perfect life? And, did He leave HIs inheritance, as the Son of Man, to us? or His inheritance as the Son of God?

As a man Jesus inherited custodianship of the earth. Unlike others before Him, he did not hand this dominion over to the devil by obeying the devil and enslaving Himself to the devil. Those in Him He restores to lordship over the planet and over all devils on the planet. The only weapon they can use against those in Christ is deceit, to convince us to obey them rather than God.

Si as a man Jesus did not have to earn the planet, but he had to keep ownership of it and not surrender ownership of it. His reward for living a perfect life is brothers and sisters: a family of God-lovers to share His inheritance with. He doesn't leave it to us. He shares it with us. His inheritance as the Son of God is all of creation: the heavens and the earth. It includes the glory He had with the Father that He had given up to dwell among men for 33 years. We don't get to have that individually in its fulness.

 

[sawdust]

But you're still denying what god said,

You are refusing to believe what Jesus said.

John 5:19
Jesus gave them this answer: “Very truly I tell you, the Son can do nothing by himself; he can do only what he sees his Father doing, because whatever the Father does the Son also does.

Was Jesus still God while He walked the earth, the answer must be yes or no

I have answered this many times already in the affirmative. Everyone one of the following posts have directly stated Jesus never stopped being God or intimated the same if read with understanding.

Post#321
Post#310
Post#266
Post#265
Post#260
Post#248 (agreeing with another's post)
Post#198
Post#191 (agreeing with another's post)
Post#183
Post#133
Post#91
Post#83
Post#81
Post#76
Post#62

Not all these posts have been directly to you but you have quoted some of my posts that were to others so I know you have read at least some of my other posts.

Is this not enough for you? Must you continue with your false accusations about what I believe?

 

[Charlie_2024]

Jesus was God. But you are trying to dictate to God as to how he must exercise his deity to be a kind of God you will recognise as God. You are dictating that a God worthy of your worship must never give up His use of His own omnipotence and rely on someone else's power.

I'm telling you what the documented facts about what God did and said, you can make whatever assumption you like but your feelings and opinions have no baring on reality.

 

[Charlie_2024]

You are refusing to believe what Jesus said.

John 5:19
Jesus gave them this answer: “Very truly I tell you, the Son can do nothing by himself; he can do only what he sees his Father doing, because whatever the Father does the Son also does.




I have answered this many times already in the affirmative. Everyone one of the following posts have directly stated Jesus never stopped being God or intimated the same if read with understanding.

Post#321
Post#310
Post#266
Post#265
Post#260
Post#248 (agreeing with another's post)
Post#198
Post#191 (agreeing with another's post)
Post#183
Post#133
Post#91
Post#83
Post#81
Post#76
Post#62

Not all these posts have been directly to you but you have quoted some of my posts that were to others so I know you have read at least some of my other posts.

Is this not enough for you? Must you continue with your false accusations about what I believe?

But you have misapplied John 5:19 Jesus was speaking in His capacity as a man to them. So there's no contradiction in what I said, He switched and changed His capacity to suit each different situation. He was both all the time but He switched between the two as He pleased.

I can't understand why you have a problem with that.

 

[cv5]

Was Jesus still God while He walked the earth, the answer must be yes or no.

Of course He was. Not only that, He was fully empowered IN HIMSELF to do whatever the Triune God desires and designed to do.
Jesus did not need to tap into or borrow or be gifted power from the other members of the Trinity to do anything. Ever.

Luk 5:20
And when he saw their faith, he said unto him, Man, thy sins are forgiven thee.
Luk 5:21
And the scribes and the Pharisees began to reason, saying, Who is this which speaketh blasphemies? Who can forgive sins, but God alone?
Luk 5:22
But when Jesus perceived their thoughts, he answering said unto them, What reason ye in your hearts?
Luk 5:23
Whether is easier, to say, Thy sins be forgiven thee; or to say, Rise up and walk?
Luk 5:24
But that ye may know that the Son of man hath power upon earth to forgive sins, (he said unto the sick of the palsy,) I say unto thee, Arise, and take up thy couch, and go into thine house.


Jeus is fully in control of the situation. As He always is.

Jhn 18:6
As soon then as he had said unto them, I AM ("he" is not in the text), they went backward, and fell to the ground.

 

[Thunderrr-mental]

I have discussed this a couple of times with others, never coming to any consensus. I thought I would open the discussion here. Some say because He is God, He did have an advantage, others have been unsure.

What say you?

.I say that the power of death lives in The life of Jesus, so therefore his life still lives in all men

This would be the advantage before the fall 😊

 

[cv5]

John 5:19
Jesus gave them this answer: “Very truly I tell you, the Son can do nothing by himself; he can do only what he sees his Father doing, because whatever the Father does the Son also does.

Which of course proves beyond a shadow of a doubt that Jesus is God Himself.

 

[notmyown]

This is the closest I have found to what I asked. But as Jesus did only what He saw the Father doing, and spoke only the words of One who sent Him, it's inconclusive for me.

i believe it to have been a trinitarian act, much like creation and salvation.

however, i'm not going to try to convince you of that.