trinity is controversial?
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It's mainly an issue for two reasons: 1) The word "trinity" itself isn't found in scripture; 2) The idea of the "trinity" seems to have originated with Catholicism, so it's automatically suspect. I'm no fan of Catholicism but I have no problem with the trinity. Jesus Himself spoke of it in Matthew 28:19, "Go, therefore, and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit,"
Ah yes, good ole John 14:9. First things first, this verse NOT teaching that Jesus Christ is God the Father as some cults and others believe. God the Father has no separate manifestation from the Son. The Son is the only manifestation and revelation of the Father. What is known of the Father is revealed through the Son. To see the Son is to see the "essence" of the Father. This is brought out at (John 1:1,18; John 10:30,; 12:45; Colossians 1:15; Hebrews 1:3).
As a side note I especially love John 10:30, "I and the Father WE are one." If you read the context it is obvious that the Father and the Son are one in purpose, this is a given. Jesus had just said that the sheep are equally safe in His hand and in His Father's hand. The power of the Son is equal to that of the Father.
Jesus distinguishes the "I" from the "Father" and uses the plural verb "are" denoting "we are." Thus these words separate the PERSONS within the Godhead, but "one" asserts their unity of essence or nature as identical. At John 10:24 the Jews ask Jesus to tell them plainly who He was. This verse is plain. He does not say "I am the Christ," but "I and my Father are one"---God!
As a result of this the Jews accused Jesus of blasphemy and wanted to stone Him at John 10:33. Notice that at vs34-38 Jesus brings up Psalm 82:6. Why? Now think! If John 10:30 is strictly about "unity" why does Jesus being up the subject of "gods" at Psalm 82:6? Besides, one is not blaspheming for claiming to be one in unity. I'm going to stop here and leave this open as to why Jesus brought up the subject of "gods," any ideas?
IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
As a side note I especially love John 10:30, "I and the Father WE are one." If you read the context it is obvious that the Father and the Son are one in purpose, this is a given. Jesus had just said that the sheep are equally safe in His hand and in His Father's hand. The power of the Son is equal to that of the Father.
Jesus distinguishes the "I" from the "Father" and uses the plural verb "are" denoting "we are." Thus these words separate the PERSONS within the Godhead, but "one" asserts their unity of essence or nature as identical. At John 10:24 the Jews ask Jesus to tell them plainly who He was. This verse is plain. He does not say "I am the Christ," but "I and my Father are one"---God!
As a result of this the Jews accused Jesus of blasphemy and wanted to stone Him at John 10:33. Notice that at vs34-38 Jesus brings up Psalm 82:6. Why? Now think! If John 10:30 is strictly about "unity" why does Jesus being up the subject of "gods" at Psalm 82:6? Besides, one is not blaspheming for claiming to be one in unity. I'm going to stop here and leave this open as to why Jesus brought up the subject of "gods," any ideas?
IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
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Three aspects One person
“For in him ( singular person ) dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead ( father son holt ghost in the flesh )bodily.
And ye are complete in him, ( singular person him ) which is the head of all principality and power:”
Colossians 2:9-10 KJV
“For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.”
Colossians 2:9 KJV
“For in him ( singular person ) dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead ( father son holt ghost in the flesh )bodily.
And ye are complete in him, ( singular person him ) which is the head of all principality and power:”
Colossians 2:9-10 KJV
“For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.”
Colossians 2:9 KJV
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Yes the Old Testament calls Jesus the right hand of God , or the arm of the lord. In the ot he often looked into the earth upon mankind eventually all had become corrupt all of mankind eas corrupted before God
“The LORD looked down from heaven upon the children of men, To see if there were any that did understand, And seek God. They are all gone aside, they are all together become filthy: There is none that doeth good, no, not one.”
Psalm 14:2-3 KJV
“Yea, truth faileth; and he that departeth from evil maketh himself a prey: and the LORD saw it, and it displeased him that there was no judgment. And he saw that there was no man, and wondered that there was no intercessor: therefore his arm brought salvation unto him; and his righteousness, it sustained him. For he put on righteousness as a breastplate, and an helmet of salvation upon his head; and he put on the garments of vengeance for clothing, and was clad with zeal as a cloke.
So shall they fear the name of the LORD from the west, and his glory from the rising of the sun. When the enemy shall come in like a flood, the Spirit of the LORD shall lift up a standard against him. And the Redeemer shall come to Zion, and unto them that turn from transgression in Jacob, saith the LORD.”
Isaiah 59:15-17, 19-20
“The voice of rejoicing and salvation is in the tabernacles of the righteous: The right hand of the LORD doeth valiantly. The right hand of the LORD is exalted: The right hand of the LORD doeth valiantly.
I shall not die, but live, And declare the works of the LORD. The LORD hath chastened me sore: But he hath not given me over unto death.
Open to me the gates of righteousness: I will go into them, and I will praise the LORD: This gate of the LORD, Into which the righteous shall enter. I will praise thee: for thou hast heard me, And art become my salvation. The stone which the builders refused Is become the head stone of the corner. This is the LORD's doing; It is marvellous in our eyes.”
Psalm 118:15-23 KJV
what I’m saying is jesus is the right hand of God that’s why we see him return to heaven at the right hand of God like a man’s arm reaches forth it is the man it is one with him his arm is part of his body part of him an active part of him that reaches out but it’s him reaching forth with his arm into earth
“Who hath believed our report? and to whom is the arm of the LORD revealed?”
Isaiah 53:1 KJV
Notice how it is “ the son of man” at the right hand of God ? There has to be a holy man to intercede with God for sinners there wasn’t one on all creation so God became that holy man that high priest we needed now at zgods right hand we have the intercessor which is his right hand his arm the active part of him that teaches forth and acts works in the earth
“The LORD looked down from heaven upon the children of men, To see if there were any that did understand, And seek God. They are all gone aside, they are all together become filthy: There is none that doeth good, no, not one.”
Psalm 14:2-3 KJV
“Yea, truth faileth; and he that departeth from evil maketh himself a prey: and the LORD saw it, and it displeased him that there was no judgment. And he saw that there was no man, and wondered that there was no intercessor: therefore his arm brought salvation unto him; and his righteousness, it sustained him. For he put on righteousness as a breastplate, and an helmet of salvation upon his head; and he put on the garments of vengeance for clothing, and was clad with zeal as a cloke.
So shall they fear the name of the LORD from the west, and his glory from the rising of the sun. When the enemy shall come in like a flood, the Spirit of the LORD shall lift up a standard against him. And the Redeemer shall come to Zion, and unto them that turn from transgression in Jacob, saith the LORD.”
Isaiah 59:15-17, 19-20
“The voice of rejoicing and salvation is in the tabernacles of the righteous: The right hand of the LORD doeth valiantly. The right hand of the LORD is exalted: The right hand of the LORD doeth valiantly.
I shall not die, but live, And declare the works of the LORD. The LORD hath chastened me sore: But he hath not given me over unto death.
Open to me the gates of righteousness: I will go into them, and I will praise the LORD: This gate of the LORD, Into which the righteous shall enter. I will praise thee: for thou hast heard me, And art become my salvation. The stone which the builders refused Is become the head stone of the corner. This is the LORD's doing; It is marvellous in our eyes.”
Psalm 118:15-23 KJV
what I’m saying is jesus is the right hand of God that’s why we see him return to heaven at the right hand of God like a man’s arm reaches forth it is the man it is one with him his arm is part of his body part of him an active part of him that reaches out but it’s him reaching forth with his arm into earth
“Who hath believed our report? and to whom is the arm of the LORD revealed?”
Isaiah 53:1 KJV
Notice how it is “ the son of man” at the right hand of God ? There has to be a holy man to intercede with God for sinners there wasn’t one on all creation so God became that holy man that high priest we needed now at zgods right hand we have the intercessor which is his right hand his arm the active part of him that teaches forth and acts works in the earth
“In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. …And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.”
Genesis 1:1-3 KJV
theres one person or one being there right ?
We’re told that God created But we’re told of his spirit and that he spoke a word that created light .
Not three people but one God and his living spirit and his word of power
That’s really all I’m saying Jesus is who this is talking about
“And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, ( son ) justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.”
1 Timothy 3:16 KJV
God had never been born in the flesh as a man before that’s Jesus the same who created all things here by his word and spirit
“In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.”
Genesis 1:1 KJV
later after mankind was condemned by sin and death and became lost and needed a savior a perfect man to save them by intercession , God declared that he would be born as a man in the flesh and redeem mankind from sin and death . The gospel is that coming to pass
“Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.”
Isaiah 7:14 KJV
“And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins. Now all this was done, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying, Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, And they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.”
Matthew 1:21-23
“For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace. ( all of these in one person the son our Lord ) Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will perform this.”
Isaiah 9:6-7
“The Lord sent a word into Jacob, and it hath lighted upon Israel.”
Isaiah 9:8 KJV
and the word became flesh and dwelt among us
“The voice of him that crieth in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the LORD, make straight in the desert a highway for our God.
Every valley shall be exalted, and every mountain and hill shall be made low: and the crooked shall be made straight, and the rough places plain: and the glory of the LORD shall be revealed, and all flesh shall see it together: for the mouth of the LORD hath spoken it.
The voice said, Cry. And he said, What shall I cry? All flesh is grass, and all the goodliness thereof is as the flower of the field: the grass withereth, the flower fadeth: because the spirit of the LORD bloweth upon it: surely the people is grass. The grass withereth, the flower fadeth: but the word of our God shall stand for ever.”
Isaiah 40:3-8 KJV
“The beginning of the gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of God; The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, Make his paths straight. John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins. Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God, and saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.”
Mark 1:1, 3-4, 14-15
“being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever. For All flesh is as grass, And all the glory of man as the flower of grass. The grass withereth, and the flower thereof falleth away: But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you.”
1 Peter 1:23-25
The holy spirit also is the spirit of God , just as the son is God in the flesh and blood the Holy Ghost is the spirit of God that moved in the beginning
thats all I mean we can know God the Father in heaven because the son came to the earth and made himself known and also promises to send his spirit into our hearts that believe
The father son and holy ghost are one is all I’m saying and he has become our savior and intercessor because we needed an o intercessor and savior
Genesis 1:1-3 KJV
theres one person or one being there right ?
We’re told that God created But we’re told of his spirit and that he spoke a word that created light .
Not three people but one God and his living spirit and his word of power
That’s really all I’m saying Jesus is who this is talking about
“And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, ( son ) justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.”
1 Timothy 3:16 KJV
God had never been born in the flesh as a man before that’s Jesus the same who created all things here by his word and spirit
“In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.”
Genesis 1:1 KJV
later after mankind was condemned by sin and death and became lost and needed a savior a perfect man to save them by intercession , God declared that he would be born as a man in the flesh and redeem mankind from sin and death . The gospel is that coming to pass
“Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.”
Isaiah 7:14 KJV
“And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins. Now all this was done, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying, Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, And they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.”
Matthew 1:21-23
“For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace. ( all of these in one person the son our Lord ) Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will perform this.”
Isaiah 9:6-7
“The Lord sent a word into Jacob, and it hath lighted upon Israel.”
Isaiah 9:8 KJV
and the word became flesh and dwelt among us
“The voice of him that crieth in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the LORD, make straight in the desert a highway for our God.
Every valley shall be exalted, and every mountain and hill shall be made low: and the crooked shall be made straight, and the rough places plain: and the glory of the LORD shall be revealed, and all flesh shall see it together: for the mouth of the LORD hath spoken it.
The voice said, Cry. And he said, What shall I cry? All flesh is grass, and all the goodliness thereof is as the flower of the field: the grass withereth, the flower fadeth: because the spirit of the LORD bloweth upon it: surely the people is grass. The grass withereth, the flower fadeth: but the word of our God shall stand for ever.”
Isaiah 40:3-8 KJV
“The beginning of the gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of God; The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, Make his paths straight. John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins. Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God, and saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.”
Mark 1:1, 3-4, 14-15
“being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever. For All flesh is as grass, And all the glory of man as the flower of grass. The grass withereth, and the flower thereof falleth away: But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you.”
1 Peter 1:23-25
The holy spirit also is the spirit of God , just as the son is God in the flesh and blood the Holy Ghost is the spirit of God that moved in the beginning
thats all I mean we can know God the Father in heaven because the son came to the earth and made himself known and also promises to send his spirit into our hearts that believe
The father son and holy ghost are one is all I’m saying and he has become our savior and intercessor because we needed an o intercessor and savior
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Except when the Father and Son are in the same place and shown interacting like here:
Rev 5:6 And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth.
Rev 5:7 And he came and took the book out of the right hand of him that sat upon the throne.
Rev 5:6 And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth.
Rev 5:7 And he came and took the book out of the right hand of him that sat upon the throne.
God is a mystery His was and attributes are past finding out, so there's no point in trying to get our minds around the Trinity. Our minds are limited or finite, God ways are infinitely higher than ours. That's why we are commanded to simply trust and obey, when we come across the supernatural, impossible to understand doctrines.
I don't think anyone can honestly say they understand the Trinity, as all three Person of the Trinity are One God and equally God. They are in perfect union, while each has a different function.
Jesus said He is Jehovah God, He said He is in the Father and the Father is in Him. It's impossible to process all the attributes of the Triune God Head.
I don't think anyone can honestly say they understand the Trinity, as all three Person of the Trinity are One God and equally God. They are in perfect union, while each has a different function.
Jesus said He is Jehovah God, He said He is in the Father and the Father is in Him. It's impossible to process all the attributes of the Triune God Head.
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I appreciate your post but all I'm saying is the word, "aspects" is no substitute for the word "persons." At Genesis 1:1 we are introduced to "God." Then at vs2, "And the earth was formless and void, and darkness was over the surface of the deep; and the Spirit of God ( a person) was moving over the surface of the waters." An "aspect" was not moving over the waters, that's all I'm saying.
IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
And "persons" becomes more applicable when one goes to Genesis 2. There "God" (Elohim) becomes "the LORD God" (Yahweh Elohim). This denotes a personal relationship with Adam and Eve, since YHWH is the personal name of the LORD God Almighty. And in fact it was the pre-incarnate Christ who was in the Garden of Eden, because no man has seen God the Father at any time.
"Aspects" makes things ambiguous, and in fact leads to false doctrines about the triune Godhead.
"Aspects" makes things ambiguous, and in fact leads to false doctrines about the triune Godhead.
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matthew 3:16 & 17 speak of all 3 persons of the trinity as well as hebrews 9:14. you are wise to disbelieve in catholism. i was raised catholic & i knew something was wrong when i was 12 years old. i remember a thought in my mind at 12 years of age: "there's something wrong with this catholic religion, they tell you the same thing every year, they don't teach you anything".
when your saying persons it’s plural as of there are three people or persons . I don’t believe there are three people I believe God is one person
his Holy Spirit isn’t a different person is my point is your spirit a different person from you ?
Or is your body and spirit one person but two aspects of the one person ?
there’s one person one God one Lord
“Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD:”
Deuteronomy 6:4 KJV
“Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?”
1 Corinthians 3:16 KJV
“In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. ( not gods as in plural but God singular )
And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved ( not some other person moving but the spirit of the one God ) upon the face of the waters.”
Genesis 1:1-2 KJV
To simplify there are the three aspects of Jesus Christ our Lord the name is his name
“And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of
the Father,
and of the Son,
and of the Holy Ghost:
teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.”
Matthew 28:18-20
the father isn’t a name nor is the son a name nor is the holy spirit name but there is one name of the father son and Holy Ghost
“baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: “
“When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.”
Acts 19:5 KJV
“And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.”
Acts 10:48
“Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.”( the Holy Ghost isnt a name it’s Jesus spirit )
Acts 2:38
“And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.”
Galatians 4:6 KJV
“But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.”
Romans 8:9
This is all one spirit not several the Holy Ghost , the spirit of god , the spirit of gods son , spirit of Jesus Christ , ect my point is Jesus isnt a different person from God the father in heaven he is how we on earth can see and know God in heaven not another person Jesus the son is the fulness of God not a sperate person from him
“For in him ( singular ) dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.”( in his body is the fullness of God )
Colossians 2:9 KJV
what im saying is simple God is one person the holy spirit is his own living spirit Jesus the son is he himself in the flesh
look at you God made man in his image are you a different person from your spirit ? Or different person from your flesh and blood ? Or are those aspects of who you are as a complete person ?
That’s all my point is God isn’t three people he’s one person manifest n theee distinct manners for very distinct purposes to our redemption and salvation
and also “ three persons “ is your thought. just like this I’m explaining is only my thought
It’s not written anywhere as “three persons” or” three aspects of one person “ it’s just how two different people are trying to explain what they believe about it .
I believe God is one and has different aspects like man does we have a body and spirit e father and son are two manifestations or aspects of the same person is my belief and the Holy Ghost is his spirit in believers
“and was transfigured before them: and his face did shine as the sun, and his raiment was white as the light.”
Matthew 17:2
Same guy different glory father - son
his Holy Spirit isn’t a different person is my point is your spirit a different person from you ?
Or is your body and spirit one person but two aspects of the one person ?
there’s one person one God one Lord
“Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD:”
Deuteronomy 6:4 KJV
“Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?”
1 Corinthians 3:16 KJV
“In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. ( not gods as in plural but God singular )
And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved ( not some other person moving but the spirit of the one God ) upon the face of the waters.”
Genesis 1:1-2 KJV
To simplify there are the three aspects of Jesus Christ our Lord the name is his name
“And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of
the Father,
and of the Son,
and of the Holy Ghost:
teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.”
Matthew 28:18-20
the father isn’t a name nor is the son a name nor is the holy spirit name but there is one name of the father son and Holy Ghost
“baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: “
“When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.”
Acts 19:5 KJV
“And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.”
Acts 10:48
“Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.”( the Holy Ghost isnt a name it’s Jesus spirit )
Acts 2:38
“And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.”
Galatians 4:6 KJV
“But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.”
Romans 8:9
This is all one spirit not several the Holy Ghost , the spirit of god , the spirit of gods son , spirit of Jesus Christ , ect my point is Jesus isnt a different person from God the father in heaven he is how we on earth can see and know God in heaven not another person Jesus the son is the fulness of God not a sperate person from him
“For in him ( singular ) dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.”( in his body is the fullness of God )
Colossians 2:9 KJV
what im saying is simple God is one person the holy spirit is his own living spirit Jesus the son is he himself in the flesh
look at you God made man in his image are you a different person from your spirit ? Or different person from your flesh and blood ? Or are those aspects of who you are as a complete person ?
That’s all my point is God isn’t three people he’s one person manifest n theee distinct manners for very distinct purposes to our redemption and salvation
and also “ three persons “ is your thought. just like this I’m explaining is only my thought
It’s not written anywhere as “three persons” or” three aspects of one person “ it’s just how two different people are trying to explain what they believe about it .
I believe God is one and has different aspects like man does we have a body and spirit e father and son are two manifestations or aspects of the same person is my belief and the Holy Ghost is his spirit in believers
“and was transfigured before them: and his face did shine as the sun, and his raiment was white as the light.”
Matthew 17:2
Same guy different glory father - son