Did Jesus Have an Advantage over Pre-Fall Adam During the Incarnation?
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Moses was a weak and frightened goat herding peasant, he couldn't even speak without stuttering. Let alone perform miracles.
The Bible didn't specify that the Holy Spirit indwelt Moses and empowered him to perform miracles. It doesn't matter which of the Holy Three worked those miracles through Moses, all three are equally God and all three work as One to do Gods will.
Which Jesus received the Holy Spirit, when He descended from heaven like a dove. It couldn't have been The Lord God Jehovah Jesus as He already was as One with the Holy Spirit. What John witnessed, was Jesus's nature as a man receiving the Holy Spirt. Remember, Jesus used to switch and change between the two natures depending on the situation.
The Bible didn't specify that the Holy Spirit indwelt Moses and empowered him to perform miracles. It doesn't matter which of the Holy Three worked those miracles through Moses, all three are equally God and all three work as One to do Gods will.
Which Jesus received the Holy Spirit, when He descended from heaven like a dove. It couldn't have been The Lord God Jehovah Jesus as He already was as One with the Holy Spirit. What John witnessed, was Jesus's nature as a man receiving the Holy Spirt. Remember, Jesus used to switch and change between the two natures depending on the situation.
No, you position is contradictory., If I remember correctly you stated that Jesus laid aside His Divinity during His earthly incarnation. That suggests that He acted as a man, during His time on the earth. My argument against that is, that men can't walk on water.
I believe He was fully man and fully God during the entire time He spent on the earth. But He didn't always use His divine power, as that would be cheating. He had to suffer as a man to feel the pain of paying the penalty to atone for the sins of the elect of God. He didn't suffer for those He purposed to leave in their condemned state.
I believe He was fully man and fully God during the entire time He spent on the earth. But He didn't always use His divine power, as that would be cheating. He had to suffer as a man to feel the pain of paying the penalty to atone for the sins of the elect of God. He didn't suffer for those He purposed to leave in their condemned state.
Yer, Nah. There's just a slight difference between Christs obedience to fulfill mission of atonement and the obedience those others showed.
They were given a temporal gift to perform miracles in order to prove that the God they serve is real and powerful. But Christ didn't need to receive that gift from an outside source, He already was the Almighty Lord God Jehovah the creator and sustainer of everything that exists.
They were given a temporal gift to perform miracles in order to prove that the God they serve is real and powerful. But Christ didn't need to receive that gift from an outside source, He already was the Almighty Lord God Jehovah the creator and sustainer of everything that exists.
Was Moses being God when he parted the Red Sea? Was Elijah being God when he raised the widow's son? Do you honestly think that if the only way a miracle can be performed, is if the person doing the performing has to be God?
It has been noted in many posts (and not just by me), that Jesus had been given all authority, He was given the Spirit without measure, He could do nothing on His own, He was one with the Father in whom the Father worked, He was like us in all respects except without sin.
It has been noted in many posts (and not just by me), that Jesus had been given all authority, He was given the Spirit without measure, He could do nothing on His own, He was one with the Father in whom the Father worked, He was like us in all respects except without sin.
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He can create an object so massive He cannot move it,
and He can also move it.
He could with a word, at any time, erase all of creation. the fact that He didn't doesn't mean He rendered Himself incapable of doing so.
my opinion is that Philippians 2 is being misrepresented by the kenosis position - consider the preface to the verses being so often cited here:
this is the context of the description of His having stopped to pitch His tent among us: as an example for us how we ought to live.
we aren't being instructed to rid ourselves of the capability to act, or to disown ourselves from our inherent virtues. we're being instructed to be meek.
and He can also move it.
He could with a word, at any time, erase all of creation. the fact that He didn't doesn't mean He rendered Himself incapable of doing so.
my opinion is that Philippians 2 is being misrepresented by the kenosis position - consider the preface to the verses being so often cited here:
Philippians 2:3-5
[Let] nothing [be done] through selfish ambition or conceit, but in lowliness of mind let each esteem others better than himself. Let each of you look out not only for his own interests, but also for the interests of others. Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus,
this is the context of the description of His having stopped to pitch His tent among us: as an example for us how we ought to live.
we aren't being instructed to rid ourselves of the capability to act, or to disown ourselves from our inherent virtues. we're being instructed to be meek.
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If you think that the incarnation stripped Jesus of all of His power, glory and authority.......think again. PLEASE think again.
And anybody reading this thread......don't fall for the heresy that Jesus was only a mere mortal man.
The First Coming is a phenomenon agreed upon by the Trinity in eternity past of course. But this has zero bearing on Jesus Godhood during his tabernacling with us then. Furthermore, God is One, and the Trinity are in perfect harmony as to how this was to occur.
Jhn 2:19
Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.
Jhn 10:18
No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I HAVE (Verb - Present Active Indicative - 1st Person Singular) power to lay it down, and I HAVE (Verb - Present Active Indicative - 1st Person Singular) power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.
Jesus HAD......THEN AND THERE (during His incarnation)......all the power to resurrect HIMSELF.
HIMSELF being infinite, eternal almighty God, YHVH, the I AM.
And anybody reading this thread......don't fall for the heresy that Jesus was only a mere mortal man.
The First Coming is a phenomenon agreed upon by the Trinity in eternity past of course. But this has zero bearing on Jesus Godhood during his tabernacling with us then. Furthermore, God is One, and the Trinity are in perfect harmony as to how this was to occur.
Jhn 2:19
Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.
Jhn 10:18
No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I HAVE (Verb - Present Active Indicative - 1st Person Singular) power to lay it down, and I HAVE (Verb - Present Active Indicative - 1st Person Singular) power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.
Jesus HAD......THEN AND THERE (during His incarnation)......all the power to resurrect HIMSELF.
HIMSELF being infinite, eternal almighty God, YHVH, the I AM.
Of course the Trinity does nothing as an individual. All is done with informed consent.
Which is what any reference to "doing nothing on His own", and "command of the Father" is all about.
Has nothing whatsoever to do with a stripping of Jesus' power, authority or Godhood, or some kind of junior lesser position.
On the contrary, His Oneness with the Trinity CONFIRMS His divine Godhood during the incarnation.
Which is what any reference to "doing nothing on His own", and "command of the Father" is all about.
Has nothing whatsoever to do with a stripping of Jesus' power, authority or Godhood, or some kind of junior lesser position.
On the contrary, His Oneness with the Trinity CONFIRMS His divine Godhood during the incarnation.
It depends on on how you see the walking on water scripture.
Then Peter got down out of the boat, walked on the water and came toward Jesus. 30 But when he saw the wind, he was afraid and, beginning to sink, cried out, “Lord, save me!”
So the question is here how did Peter walk on water was it in bodily form in the flesh or was it in spirit.
Then the question you have to ask is was the whole chain of events spiritual, had Jesus taken all the disciples spirits out of their bodies whilst they were sleeping in land,
Ie left the earthly bodies on land and took their spiritual body into the boat whilst they where sleeping
Then Peter got down out of the boat, walked on the water and came toward Jesus. 30 But when he saw the wind, he was afraid and, beginning to sink, cried out, “Lord, save me!”
So the question is here how did Peter walk on water was it in bodily form in the flesh or was it in spirit.
Then the question you have to ask is was the whole chain of events spiritual, had Jesus taken all the disciples spirits out of their bodies whilst they were sleeping in land,
Ie left the earthly bodies on land and took their spiritual body into the boat whilst they where sleeping
I'm beginning to get a little tired of repeating myself in this thread. Jesus never stopped being God at anytime nor did He lose, divest Himself or be stripped of all that it is to be God.
He denied Himself the right to act as God and instead relied on the power and authority of God the Father and Spirit for all that He said and did.
I can't say it any plainer.
He denied Himself the right to act as God and instead relied on the power and authority of God the Father and Spirit for all that He said and did.
I can't say it any plainer.
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