Do the non-elect have free-will?
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Thread Topic
Do the non-elect have free-will?
YES
God gave all of His human creation free will to choose ------our free will is limited to Choice -----He gave angels Free will to Choose ----Lucifer chose to rebel against God and took angels with him who also had free choice to stay or rebel against God --their choice was to follow Lucifer who had a name change to satan
The Elect are His Human Creation who make the choice to accept His free Gift of Salvation -----they die physically but Have eternal spiritual life -----
Those who make the choice not to accept His Salvation will reap 2 deaths -----physical death then Spiritual separation forever from God ----which is the second death -----and will end up in the lake of fire ---
NO
Anyone can read the Logos Word of God -----but they cannot grasp or understand the Spiritual meaning of God's word ----which is called the RHEMA Word ----the Spoken Word -----
there are 3 types of man in scripture ----
Read more: https://www.whatchristianswanttokno...l-man-spiritual-man-carnal-man/#ixzz8YMLHLkVP
The Natural Man: He is born into the human family and lives in his natural state without being a child of God (John 3:1-8; Galatians 3:26; 1 John 2:22-23; 1 John 3:9-10; 1 John 4:3; 1 John 1:7). He does not have the Holy Spirit of God in Him and lives his life driven by three human motivators: the lust of the flesh, lust of the eyes, and pride (1 John 2:15-17). He is unable to know, much less understand the deep things of God, because He does not have the Spirit of God in Him that gives Him Spiritual wisdom. Therefore, He considers Spiritually Godly things to be foolishness and rejects God and His Word, which results in His destruction and rejection by God from having eternal life with God (Romans 1:18-32; 1 Corinthians 2:11, 14; James 1:23-24; 1 Thessalonians 2:13-16; 1 Peter 2:9-17; Revelation 14:9-10).
The Carnal Man: He is one that is born again into God’s family, but lives and behaves as a man in a natural state living according to his carnal or fleshly desires. Instead of following the leading of the Holy Spirit, he chooses to allow the lust of the eyes, lust of the flesh, and pride tempt him, which produces ungodly works and the inability to grow in Spiritual maturity and discernment (Romans 7:14-25; 1 Corinthians 3:1-14). Only by immersing himself in the Word of God and putting off the works of the flesh can he abstain from his fleshly lusts and live a life that is pleasing to God and serves as a glorification of God before unbelievers (1 Peter 2:11-12). Sadly, the carnal man often claims he is a Christian, but demonstrates to the world that Christians are no different than anyone else.
The Spiritual Man: He is one that is born again into God’s family and lives in a Spiritual state. Unlike the natural man, he does have the Holy Spirit in him, Whom he received at the moment of salvation when he trusted Christ as his Savior. He is born again as a child of God by his faith in Christ (Galatians 3:26). He is able to know the deep things of God because the Holy Spirit has revealed them to Him (Isaiah 11:2; Daniel 2:19-23; 1 Corinthians 2:4, 9-11; Ephesians 1:15-22). Because he has the Spirit of God in him, he has a new nature that is not driven by the lust of the flesh, lust of the eyes, and pride (Romans 5:5-9; 2 Corinthians 5:16-19; Galatians 6:15). Because He is born again by trusting Christ as His Savior, He will be saved from God’s wrath to spend an eternity with God (Psalms 2:2; Romans 1:18; Romans 5:9; Ephesians 5:6; 1 Thessalonians 1:10; 1 Thessalonians 2:13-16).
Do the non-elect have free-will?
YES
God gave all of His human creation free will to choose ------our free will is limited to Choice -----He gave angels Free will to Choose ----Lucifer chose to rebel against God and took angels with him who also had free choice to stay or rebel against God --their choice was to follow Lucifer who had a name change to satan
The Elect are His Human Creation who make the choice to accept His free Gift of Salvation -----they die physically but Have eternal spiritual life -----
Those who make the choice not to accept His Salvation will reap 2 deaths -----physical death then Spiritual separation forever from God ----which is the second death -----and will end up in the lake of fire ---
NO
Anyone can read the Logos Word of God -----but they cannot grasp or understand the Spiritual meaning of God's word ----which is called the RHEMA Word ----the Spoken Word -----
there are 3 types of man in scripture ----
Read more: https://www.whatchristianswanttokno...l-man-spiritual-man-carnal-man/#ixzz8YMLHLkVP
The Natural Man: He is born into the human family and lives in his natural state without being a child of God (John 3:1-8; Galatians 3:26; 1 John 2:22-23; 1 John 3:9-10; 1 John 4:3; 1 John 1:7). He does not have the Holy Spirit of God in Him and lives his life driven by three human motivators: the lust of the flesh, lust of the eyes, and pride (1 John 2:15-17). He is unable to know, much less understand the deep things of God, because He does not have the Spirit of God in Him that gives Him Spiritual wisdom. Therefore, He considers Spiritually Godly things to be foolishness and rejects God and His Word, which results in His destruction and rejection by God from having eternal life with God (Romans 1:18-32; 1 Corinthians 2:11, 14; James 1:23-24; 1 Thessalonians 2:13-16; 1 Peter 2:9-17; Revelation 14:9-10).
The Carnal Man: He is one that is born again into God’s family, but lives and behaves as a man in a natural state living according to his carnal or fleshly desires. Instead of following the leading of the Holy Spirit, he chooses to allow the lust of the eyes, lust of the flesh, and pride tempt him, which produces ungodly works and the inability to grow in Spiritual maturity and discernment (Romans 7:14-25; 1 Corinthians 3:1-14). Only by immersing himself in the Word of God and putting off the works of the flesh can he abstain from his fleshly lusts and live a life that is pleasing to God and serves as a glorification of God before unbelievers (1 Peter 2:11-12). Sadly, the carnal man often claims he is a Christian, but demonstrates to the world that Christians are no different than anyone else.
The Spiritual Man: He is one that is born again into God’s family and lives in a Spiritual state. Unlike the natural man, he does have the Holy Spirit in him, Whom he received at the moment of salvation when he trusted Christ as his Savior. He is born again as a child of God by his faith in Christ (Galatians 3:26). He is able to know the deep things of God because the Holy Spirit has revealed them to Him (Isaiah 11:2; Daniel 2:19-23; 1 Corinthians 2:4, 9-11; Ephesians 1:15-22). Because he has the Spirit of God in him, he has a new nature that is not driven by the lust of the flesh, lust of the eyes, and pride (Romans 5:5-9; 2 Corinthians 5:16-19; Galatians 6:15). Because He is born again by trusting Christ as His Savior, He will be saved from God’s wrath to spend an eternity with God (Psalms 2:2; Romans 1:18; Romans 5:9; Ephesians 5:6; 1 Thessalonians 1:10; 1 Thessalonians 2:13-16).
You do not yet understand enough about the issues of the limits of human free will.
Sure. In everyday matters? Man makes many choices freely.... Free will in that scope.
But, he is not free to not sin when the flesh wants its way.
Because of the sin nature that we have inherited from Adam in the fall?
Man in his natural fallen state is not able to freely choose to know God.
Not unless God by His power of grace squelches MAN'S sin nature can man begin to feel free to want to know God.
Without God suppressing our sin nature with its depraved dominance over the soul?
We would all remain opposed to God by instinct.
For the flesh desires what is against the Spirit, and the Spirit desires
what is against the flesh; these are opposed to each other, so that
you don’t do what you want." Galatians 5:17
Without God administering His power to silence our flesh?
You could never have had believed in Jesus.
When Grace was being supplied by the Spirit while you were being drawn by God?
As long as grace was at work in you? Your soul was free to accept God's drawing you to Himself.
And, even free to reject.
When made free to accept, or reject?
Then the choice to reject becomes that one's responsibility making one accountable.
For the sin nature's power to control was being nullified while the choice was made.
Calvinism distorted it into meaning the power of Grace forcing you to believe.
Actually, Grace was forcing down the flesh to make you free in your soul to choose for yourself.
Not everyone given grace chooses for God!
That is why all men are without excuse for not believing and God is right for condemning them.
grace and peace ..........
Luke 13:3
No, I say to you: but unless you shall do penance, you shall all likewise perish.
Free will is defined as free choice in the dictionary not the bible.
The only time man had free choice was before the the fall.
By telling someone they have free choice you may as well be telling people they can choose Christ when they like..
The whole thing is absurd, especially when the life of God still lives in all people who are fallen, held in captivity to God's power of death.
Its really beyond me this idea of people having free choice, and somehow that should be free will to.
Crazy crazy crazy
Therefore
The only time man had free choice was before the the fall.
By telling someone they have free choice you may as well be telling people they can choose Christ when they like..
The whole thing is absurd, especially when the life of God still lives in all people who are fallen, held in captivity to God's power of death.
Its really beyond me this idea of people having free choice, and somehow that should be free will to.
Crazy crazy crazy
Therefore
No I use choice.
But my choice has nothing to do with freedom.
If people think there choice is free then they are a law unto them self's
Exactly, people who believe the lies of the Old Testament do not have free will or even free thought. They have chosen to subscribe to the laws, curses, terrorism of their Lord Satan/YHWH. They do so because they want to enjoy the spoils of the property they steal, the lies they tell and the people they murder the promised spoils of YHWH.
Because if not, then the whole fatalistic view of Calvinism is blown out of the water.
Well I know everyone has their own way of looking at it, but I believe we are told that free will isn't even a thing. This is just what we've come to call "choice". I 100% believe that we all have choice, but those choices are a slave to our natures, which are in sin or in the Spirit. I also believe these subject run deep and are so much bigger than we can ever hope to understand fully, Jesus says we are slaves to sin or to righteousness, or as I like to put it, We are slaves of sin or or to Him.
As far as the "how, I found myself believing and saved, I was just talking about this in a thread about repentance. The way God saved me went like this in a nutshell, I heard the alter call, made the decision to go up front, I repeated the prayer I was lead to say, and then declared saved for all eternity by the spiritual leader I trusted. This was my choice and I was NOT saved. I don't think my pastor was trying to "dupe" me nor did he have anything but the best intentions, and I meant it as much as I could too, yet was deceived into thinking I knew Jesus and understood what being a Christian really was.
Then after having been a false Christian with a false idea of what it even was for about 5 years I hit the biggest trial of my life and the false Jesus didn't help. For 2 years I tried to shoulder it all on my own and it brought me to my knees in defeat. With the understanding that I was deceived into thinking I had "already done" the whole Jesus thing and it didn't help, I didn't call out for God nor even have Him on my mind. I hit my knees in defeat seeing exactly how "great" I truly was after 33 years on this earth. At the time I had no clue, but this was when God granted me repentance. There's SO much more too it than this, but all I did was see myself in truth with NO hope at all, and I quit. Wasn't even sure what than meant, but the world won, it beat me down, and I quit.
I woke up the next day having no idea what I was in for. It was lunch the next day when it hit me. Like I said there's so much more to it, but at this point I had no use of my right arm for 2 years after a motorcycle wreak took it and fought uncontrollable suicidal thoughts every 5 minutes, all day, everyday, for 2 years. Well at lunch this next day was when it hit me, "I haven't thought about killing myself all day!!!". It was that second that I knew that #1. Whatever this was it was from God. #2. Jesus was His Son.
I share this long testimony to help to explain why I would say that it wasn't my will or choice that saved me. When I made the choice I was deceived, when I was born again in truth, it was ALL Him and I didn't even realize until after what was going on. This is also why I am firmly in the "it's ALL God and NONE us" camp.
no that a dictionary quote not a bible quote.
Free choice had every man Going to hell
God severed free choice after the fall in every man, putting every man under the power of his death in his life that exists in everyman.
Because he wants you to live in him for him and under him as his children.
It's his life that is in all men.
Not your life not my life his life
Nehemiah6 said:
Everyone has free will, and there is no such thing as "the non-elect". So kindly study the Gospel of Christ very carefully.
You should pay more attention to what Nehemiah6 said: here -------God wants all people saved ----so there is no non-elect as far as God is concerned ----
if there is a non- elect in your view then it is by the the person's own choice to reject the free offer of Salvation -----they choose to be excluded all by themselves from the elect-----So in God's eyes there is no------NON -ELECT ----so Nehemiah6 is Right -------take the advice given and -Study the Gospel
Everyone has free will, and there is no such thing as "the non-elect". So kindly study the Gospel of Christ very carefully.
[B said:
You should pay more attention to what Nehemiah6 said: here -------God wants all people saved ----so there is no non-elect as far as God is concerned ----
if there is a non- elect in your view then it is by the the person's own choice to reject the free offer of Salvation -----they choose to be excluded all by themselves from the elect-----So in God's eyes there is no------NON -ELECT ----so Nehemiah6 is Right -------take the advice given and -Study the Gospel
Whoever does not have free will, cannot truly have God as their savior or can they?
No free will, leaves no free choice, and therefore whoever has no free will to choose is a puppet of a master.
Jesus was not a puppet, he chose nevertheless your will Father, not mine and went to that cross without a fight over it. That is amazing as the disciples saw this happen,/ happening, doubt entered in them, as they were hoping for Jesus to be King and get then freed from the Romans. That did not happen, and so depressing times set in until:
They saw him resurrected and have reported this truth to us all to either believe it, and see it ourselves over time in not quitting belief to it, ecen if go through troubles first as many do go through them, I did, have and while still here could gain also.
I willingly believe, the tis my free choice I have chosen and stand in as in Col 1:1-23 tells me of this. Then I see Collossians 2 where it states those that got him killed saw him as risen tooEither one believes God or not in Son as risen or not. That is all that is left to willingly belief God or not
Thanks that is the free choice left for us all to de side to believe God or not in Son or not.
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Salvation may be free to you. But to God his life has to refined first in all men.
Because his life is all men.
- Revelation 21:6
And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely.
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations - Revelation 22:17
And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.
Galatians 5
Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage. Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing. For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law. ...
Genesis 2:16
And the Lord God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat
Colossians 3:11
where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all.
without free choice to choose. I would be a puppet wouldn't I and all others too.
My choice is made, and thus am bonded
Ephesians 6:8
knowing that whatsoever good thing any man doeth, the same shall he receive of the Lord, whether he be bond or free.
Bonded to the risen Lord, my Lord unto his Lord
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