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First of all. I am not Jewish. I obey the NEW LAW.
Second, I had no idea that I was obligated to answer or respond to everything you post. If it makes oyu feel better I will read back to WHATEVER I missed and respond to it. IF that will put a smile on your face then I will.
In case you did not notice other people posted after you and I also took the opportunity to respond to Maddog. I am sorry if you felt that was impolite of me, but I felt the need to respond to some of Maddogs posts as well.
AS far as the severity...whatever the sin is...if it prevents you from entering Heaven then that is all I need to know and try ot refrain....LUCKILY I have no homosexual urges.
The Bible teaches that there are levels of sin (Proverbs 6:16-19) just as there are levels of hell and punishment (Matthew 23:14, Matthew 10:15) as well as different rewards in heaven for saints (1 Corinthians 3:8, Revelation 22:12). The Bible clearly says that homosexuality is unnatural (Romans 1:18-32 especially verse 27). It doesn't say specifically that it is unnatural about lust between a man and a woman. Also in the Old Testament it was God's law to execute those who had sex with the same sex. Not so with fornication. Also fornication is a much lighter offense than Adultery or Incest, in which both participants are punished with death. Also being gay is a lifestyle and even a subculture to many who embrace it with their own gay language. I know because my good friend is a Christian ex-gay. Being a lifestyle says to the world that "I'm affiliated with this, this is how I am" But Jesus taught us to flee such a childish and evil attitude. Christians who are having problems just with lust don't make it their business to tell people that they're having problems with lust with arrogance in their voice like gay Christians often do. I hesitate to say gay Christian because I believe the majority of gay people aren't.
The Bible teaches that we should not judge those outside the church, but should judge those inside the church. Please read this if you don't believe me. It's sad that this isn't more well known. Everyone hears that Jesus taught not to judge. Don't throw the first stone, but what about what the Spirit of Truth through Paul said in 1 Corinthians 5:12-13? The whole chapter should be read and understood. I suggest it. It would be a very good read next time you read the Bible. Develop your own opinion on it first then use the internet to look up what it means if you have trouble. And don't just take the first opinion, find different views on it, then decide. Or just message me.
The Bible teaches that we should not judge those outside the church, but should judge those inside the church. Please read this if you don't believe me. It's sad that this isn't more well known. Everyone hears that Jesus taught not to judge. Don't throw the first stone, but what about what the Spirit of Truth through Paul said in 1 Corinthians 5:12-13? The whole chapter should be read and understood. I suggest it. It would be a very good read next time you read the Bible. Develop your own opinion on it first then use the internet to look up what it means if you have trouble. And don't just take the first opinion, find different views on it, then decide. Or just message me.
As far as different levels of sin...from how I am seeing it all sin is fatal. ..whther you call it levels or not sin leads to eternal death.
But I think we have both gotten off track.
When I popped in this thread I was talking about all sexual sins....you were talking about certain sins being "worse" than others.
If all sin leads to death andI am guilty of a sexual sin whether it is considered "less sinful" or not ...I am stil la sinner.
IT would still make someone just as much of a hypocrite to judge someone elses sexual sins if they are living in a sexual immoral world as well. That is what I am getting at.
Look at it this way...Lets say you and I both go in to a store. I sneak around and steal some food. Hide it in my purse and walk out of the store. I stole. I am a theif. Well, you go in and rob the cashier and steal a ton of money. Ok, we are BOTH thieves. Most likely you will suffer a bigger punishment when we go to court, but what right would I have to condemn you for theft when I stole as well? Hypocrisy comes in to the picture, and I don't think God likes those types of people.
This thread is many pages long by now, so I haven't read through all the answers.
But my opinion is that Romans 1 is talking about people who make a CHOICE to be gay. If you read it closely, that's what Paul is talking about. I don't know that the Bible has anything against men and women who have been gay their whole lives.
But my opinion is that Romans 1 is talking about people who make a CHOICE to be gay. If you read it closely, that's what Paul is talking about. I don't know that the Bible has anything against men and women who have been gay their whole lives.
B
Gay Christians can be redeemed
I didn't say that you needed to answer everything I post. I didn't think it was impolite. I thought if you give a response to me, at least answer the Scripture I gave. I understand ignoring logical arguments, even though normally I would address those too, but when it comes to Scripture I generally expect that another brother or sister would be quick to respond with something.
Okay. I see what you're saying. I have to agree with that. I would just say that being gay is a different type of lust, not a more severe case of lust. It's a more evil and unnatural form. I mean, common, the Bible says straight out that it's unnatural.
First of all. I am not Jewish. I obey the NEW LAW.
Second, I had no idea that I was obligated to answer or respond to everything you post. If it makes oyu feel better I will read back to WHATEVER I missed and respond to it. IF that will put a smile on your face then I will.
In case you did not notice other people posted after you and I also took the opportunity to respond to Maddog. I am sorry if you felt that was impolite of me, but I felt the need to respond to some of Maddogs posts as well.
AS far as the severity...whatever the sin is...if it prevents you from entering Heaven then that is all I need to know and try ot refrain....LUCKILY I have no homosexual urges.
Second, I had no idea that I was obligated to answer or respond to everything you post. If it makes oyu feel better I will read back to WHATEVER I missed and respond to it. IF that will put a smile on your face then I will.
In case you did not notice other people posted after you and I also took the opportunity to respond to Maddog. I am sorry if you felt that was impolite of me, but I felt the need to respond to some of Maddogs posts as well.
AS far as the severity...whatever the sin is...if it prevents you from entering Heaven then that is all I need to know and try ot refrain....LUCKILY I have no homosexual urges.
Okay. I see what you're saying. I have to agree with that. I would just say that being gay is a different type of lust, not a more severe case of lust. It's a more evil and unnatural form. I mean, common, the Bible says straight out that it's unnatural.
Re: Gay Christians can be redeemed
I am not at all arguing that it isnt normal. I haved studied alot about homosexuality from the biblical standpoint to the psychological part of it. Even read up on the "gay gene".
I do have a few friends who are homosexual. We have gotten in this type of discussion too. They always say "Why do you think we CHOOSE to be this way? Do you think we like the fact that people look down on us?" MY response is always that I do not believe that God makes people gay or with the intention to commit certain sins. It is purely choice, BUT environment can play a huge role in all of our decisions.
At the same time, I am not married. I have a child, therefore at some point I commited a sexual sin. I am very quick to tell others that I am far from perfect and I will not judge them in their choices, but I will not support them either.
I am not at all arguing that it isnt normal. I haved studied alot about homosexuality from the biblical standpoint to the psychological part of it. Even read up on the "gay gene".
I do have a few friends who are homosexual. We have gotten in this type of discussion too. They always say "Why do you think we CHOOSE to be this way? Do you think we like the fact that people look down on us?" MY response is always that I do not believe that God makes people gay or with the intention to commit certain sins. It is purely choice, BUT environment can play a huge role in all of our decisions.
At the same time, I am not married. I have a child, therefore at some point I commited a sexual sin. I am very quick to tell others that I am far from perfect and I will not judge them in their choices, but I will not support them either.
B
Gay Christians can be redeemed
Should gays be looked down on? It depends on what you mean by looked down on. If you mean insulted, spit on, threatened, beaten then no, because that's not what Jesus did to sinners. Jesus healed hearts, so it's our job to emulate that and offer healing in the church of Christ by offering gay people Christ as the only alternative. John 14:6 "I am the way the truth and the life, no one comes to the father but through me." Coming to the Father doesn't just mean getting saved, it means obeying God. As Christ's family we have a responsibility to our brothers and sisters in the church of saints to tell them when they are living in error. Jesus told us. "Be on your guard. If your brother sins against you, rebuke him. If he repents, forgive him (Luke 17:3)." To do any less would be a crime to God and to that person who needs healing.
No, God doesn't make people gay, but when sin entered the world at the Fall of man it affected the physical world, corrupting it in many ways (Genesis 3:14-19). These corruptions are a result of created beings rebelling from God. Namely Satan and the fallen angels that followed him. So in that way the blame goes to those forces of darkness against God, both Eve then Adam, and also to every gay intent of gay people down the Adamic line. Of course this counts not just for homosexual sins of gay people, but for all sins. I too have researched the gay gene and the simple matter of fact is that while people may claim it one way or another, the human race (science) hasn't learned enough about the brain to link homosexual tendencies to a gene. So there might be something to it. Also there might be something to say about the role that significantly increased levels of synthetic feminine hormones (estrogen and progesterone) have been found in tap water. Apparently the birth control pills and menopause relief pills that women have been peeing for decades has found its way back into the ground water. Also soy has plant estrogen which acts similarly to the human hormone in the body and there has been an increase in soy consumption in recent years due to increased production. But generally speaking I would use this as a reference to someone who sounds like they're giving an excuse for sin. 1 Corinthians 10:13 "No temptation has taken you except what is common to man. God is faithful, who will not allow you to be tempted above what you are able, but will with the temptation also make the way of escape, that you may be able to stand up under it." While the environment may affect our lives, it is wise to have the demeanor of the attitude that God leaves it up to us to make the right choice. "And Jesus said the truth shall set you free, and you shall be free indeed."
I pray you receive gentleness, kindness, meekness, and joy! Amen
Should gays be looked down on? It depends on what you mean by looked down on. If you mean insulted, spit on, threatened, beaten then no, because that's not what Jesus did to sinners. Jesus healed hearts, so it's our job to emulate that and offer healing in the church of Christ by offering gay people Christ as the only alternative. John 14:6 "I am the way the truth and the life, no one comes to the father but through me." Coming to the Father doesn't just mean getting saved, it means obeying God. As Christ's family we have a responsibility to our brothers and sisters in the church of saints to tell them when they are living in error. Jesus told us. "Be on your guard. If your brother sins against you, rebuke him. If he repents, forgive him (Luke 17:3)." To do any less would be a crime to God and to that person who needs healing.
No, God doesn't make people gay, but when sin entered the world at the Fall of man it affected the physical world, corrupting it in many ways (Genesis 3:14-19). These corruptions are a result of created beings rebelling from God. Namely Satan and the fallen angels that followed him. So in that way the blame goes to those forces of darkness against God, both Eve then Adam, and also to every gay intent of gay people down the Adamic line. Of course this counts not just for homosexual sins of gay people, but for all sins. I too have researched the gay gene and the simple matter of fact is that while people may claim it one way or another, the human race (science) hasn't learned enough about the brain to link homosexual tendencies to a gene. So there might be something to it. Also there might be something to say about the role that significantly increased levels of synthetic feminine hormones (estrogen and progesterone) have been found in tap water. Apparently the birth control pills and menopause relief pills that women have been peeing for decades has found its way back into the ground water. Also soy has plant estrogen which acts similarly to the human hormone in the body and there has been an increase in soy consumption in recent years due to increased production. But generally speaking I would use this as a reference to someone who sounds like they're giving an excuse for sin. 1 Corinthians 10:13 "No temptation has taken you except what is common to man. God is faithful, who will not allow you to be tempted above what you are able, but will with the temptation also make the way of escape, that you may be able to stand up under it." While the environment may affect our lives, it is wise to have the demeanor of the attitude that God leaves it up to us to make the right choice. "And Jesus said the truth shall set you free, and you shall be free indeed."
I pray you receive gentleness, kindness, meekness, and joy! Amen
B
I am for love.
If that is between same sexes I see no wrong in it.
There are priests that are openly gay.
Who you love and what your sexuality is should be respected as long as its not hurting anyone innocent who is not giving concent.
I have this "thing" I do sometimes where I imagine someone in all kinds of bodies and sexes etc.
Like saw my partner as a little girl or a horse ot toad or...
Its their soul I love.
I see it as far worse to hate on those who are gay simply for being gay.
The world needs more love, not hate.
If that is between same sexes I see no wrong in it.
There are priests that are openly gay.
Who you love and what your sexuality is should be respected as long as its not hurting anyone innocent who is not giving concent.
I have this "thing" I do sometimes where I imagine someone in all kinds of bodies and sexes etc.
Like saw my partner as a little girl or a horse ot toad or...
Its their soul I love.
I see it as far worse to hate on those who are gay simply for being gay.
The world needs more love, not hate.
T
For the record, I'm only commenting on this because it was brought back up. And with 33 pages total! I'm glad we have accomplished absolutely nothing. It seems the big question is whether or not homosexuality is a sin? Agree or disagree with whatever reasons you want but as Christians we should really listen to what God has to say through others but also through his word so plz be able to back up your answers with something legitimate and not "thats just what I believe". I'm sry but that's just such a weak response. That would never stand up in a debate. Examine why you believe that. Has God revealed this to you through his word? I know we all have opinions but like it or not as a body we shouldn't be so divided like this. Does the Bible not say "a house divided cannot stand?" its not anyone's place to force someone to believe something but let's be logical and examine what God has to say. The more useless posts about how to view it differently just stretch this out longer. This is either a sin or it isn't. With that in mind please reread your response before you submit it. If it sounds weak give it more support from scriptures. Let's actually try to accomplish something within the next 33 pages.
C
I have a question where in the New Testament does it say that homosexuality is a sin? Because I know it's in the Old Testament but getting tattoo's is also a sin in the Old Testament, as well as women going to church when they are on their period or women going to church without a hat on. So where does it say we can forget those things but homosexuality is still a sin? I've never really understood this
Sorry I don't have exact bible verses or anything but it's late at night for me and I don't feel like combing through the bible right now and having a long post no one will read
Sorry I don't have exact bible verses or anything but it's late at night for me and I don't feel like combing through the bible right now and having a long post no one will read
S
In the beginning, God created Adam and Eve, not Adam and Evan.
Seriously though, I don't think it's wise to say one sin is greater than another. Leave that up to the Lord to decide. For all have fallen short of the glory of God!
BUT, I do believe that it says in 2 Timothy 2:23-24 'Have nothing to do with foolish, ignorant controversies; you know that they breed quarrels. And the Lord's servant must not be quarrelsome but kind to everyone, able to teach, patiently enduring evil.'
If someone has 'feelings' for someone of the same sex and genuinely shuns them, knowing in their hearts that it's not right or pleasing in the eyes of God, the Lord will help that person if they ask Him for help. For we walk by faith and not by sight!
God bless <3
Seriously though, I don't think it's wise to say one sin is greater than another. Leave that up to the Lord to decide. For all have fallen short of the glory of God!
BUT, I do believe that it says in 2 Timothy 2:23-24 'Have nothing to do with foolish, ignorant controversies; you know that they breed quarrels. And the Lord's servant must not be quarrelsome but kind to everyone, able to teach, patiently enduring evil.'
If someone has 'feelings' for someone of the same sex and genuinely shuns them, knowing in their hearts that it's not right or pleasing in the eyes of God, the Lord will help that person if they ask Him for help. For we walk by faith and not by sight!
God bless <3
M
Let me ask this? How many of the above members have ever met a Christian person who was gay? God does not limit his salvation and his grace for a certian type of person. He offers it to all. Who are we to say that some one who is homosexual can't be Christian?! I have a few Christian friends who are gay and they are better Christian's that a lot of hetrosexual people I know. Oh and none of them are Catholic!
The Word of God says that homosexuality is a lust of the flesh in Romans 1; 1 John says that if anyone loves the world (and defines the lust of the flesh as the love of the world, which includes homosexuality) does not have the love of the Father in themselves. They do not know God, no matter if they THINK they do, since they do not love Jesus (as is evident in that they don't have the love of the Father in themselves, and Jesus is ONE with the Father), and therefore they do not obey His Word -- and the Word limits those who can know God to those who OBEY Jesus's Words in the Book of John. 1 John says to be careful for people who say they know God but continue in sin -- it says they are liars; and liars, they are.
That isn't to say that someone cannot STRIVE AGAINST a certain sin; HOWEVER, you will NEVER think in your heart that homosexuality is 'ok' AND know God at the same time -- it just won't happen. It never has, and it never will.
That isn't to say that someone cannot STRIVE AGAINST a certain sin; HOWEVER, you will NEVER think in your heart that homosexuality is 'ok' AND know God at the same time -- it just won't happen. It never has, and it never will.
OLD TESTAMENT
Leviticus 18:22, “Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.”
Leviticus 20:13, “If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.”
NEW TESTAMENT
Romans 1:26-32, “For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.
Interpret it however you want, this is what God said on the matter.
Leviticus 18:22, “Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.”
Leviticus 20:13, “If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.”
NEW TESTAMENT
Romans 1:26-32, “For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.
Interpret it however you want, this is what God said on the matter.
Even a heterosexual isn't allowed to commit fornication -- that part of the standard was NEVER lowered from the Law of Moses; WHAT makes us think that something as obscene as homosexuality and sodomy has somehow become acceptable to God?
"Do not be deceived; for it is for these very things that the wrath of God is coming on the sons of disobedience"
Why not address my post that is 100% Scriptural, rather than someone else, FSU??
Don't be deceived by your own desires (Scripture says the sinful desires are deceptive); REPENT of serving YOURSELF, and serve GOD and GOD's desires. Stop spreading these lies -- you WILL give an answer for misleading other people, my friend.
"Do not be deceived; for it is for these very things that the wrath of God is coming on the sons of disobedience"
Why not address my post that is 100% Scriptural, rather than someone else, FSU??
Don't be deceived by your own desires (Scripture says the sinful desires are deceptive); REPENT of serving YOURSELF, and serve GOD and GOD's desires. Stop spreading these lies -- you WILL give an answer for misleading other people, my friend.