Can the nonelect ever be born-again? (2 Kings 22:27) With the elect thou wilt be elect: and with the perverse thou wilt be perverted.

[Thunderrr-mental]

In the ninth year of Hoshea, the king of Assyria took Samaria and carried Israel away to Assyria, and placed them in Halah and by the Habor, the River of Gozan, and in the cities of the Medes.

- 2 Kings 17:6

he sends people into the wilderness. All people who are in the wilderness are still lost until the resurrection.

The Israelite where in the desert for 40 years lost. Chastised for 40 years.

After the desert the same descendants of those Israelites where sent into exile again.

He still comforts those in the wilderness Ismael is an example

Like Ismael brother of Issac was in the wilderness God spoke to him as a boy and trained him to be an archer.

But in the case of the Israelites in exile now the lord will not speak to them until they welcome the lord.

 

[rogerg]

I grant the distinction you make here. But your original post that I responded to stated that the verse said simply that circumcision was no longer necessary for salvation. My point is that physical circumcision never saved anyone.

[Gal 5:2-4 KJV]
2 Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing.
3 For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law.
4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

 

[ThereRoseaLamb]

Which one, sis?

“But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign LORD who bought them-bringing swift destruction on themselves.”

These people were the elect, it says the Lord bought them. And then they brought destruction on themselves. So they were "saved" then "destroyed".

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

Amen, I am just saying that verse means men NO LONGER have to be circumcised in the way of the Law.

But it begins with circumcision based upon the Law and ends with our transformation in Christ.

Circumcision of the foreskin set the Jews apart from the Gentiles like circumcision of the heart separates those in Christ from those without Christ.

Right. I think I know what you are getting across.





There's this (per the OT times):

Gen 17:14
And the uncircumcised man child whose flesh of his foreskin is not circumcised, that soul shall be cut off from his people; he hath broken my covenant.

 

[rogerg]

“But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign LORD who bought them-bringing swift destruction on themselves.”

These people were the elect, it says the Lord bought them. And then they brought destruction on themselves. So they were "saved" then "destroyed".

the false teachers will be destroyed, not the elect. The destructive heresies denying the sovereign LORD who bought
the elect will be introduced by the false teachers, and by that, they who brought in the heresies - the false teachers - will be destroyed.

 

[FollowerofShiloh]

Right. I think I know what you are getting across.





There's this (per the OT times):

Gen 17:14
And the uncircumcised man child whose flesh of his foreskin is not circumcised, that soul shall be cut off from his people; he hath broken my covenant.

Amen!

 

[ThereRoseaLamb]

the false teachers will be destroyed, not the elect. The destructive heresies denying the sovereign LORD who bought
the elect will be introduced by the false teachers, and by that, they who brought in the heresies - the false teachers - will be destroyed.

But the false teachers are the elect, who have gone astray according to this verse.

 

[Thunderrr-mental]

But the false teachers are the elect, who have gone astray according to this verse.

yep they don't seem to apply elect to verses where people have been been elected but failed.

Like I told you. Not genuine Calvin

 

[FollowerofShiloh]

But the false teachers are the elect, who have gone astray according to this verse.

1. ..........even denying the Lord that ""bought"" them.

Being "Bought by the Lord" means to be SAVED!!


If someone (in this Thread/on this Forum) can deny this verse, they clearly are the ones Peter is talking about.

 

[rogerg]

But the false teachers are the elect, who have gone astray according to this verse.

They were among the people but not of those bought, hence the word "among".

 

[FollowerofShiloh]

They were among the people but not of those bought, hence the word "among".

You just literally twisted this verse.
Pure Evil!

 

[rogerg]

But the false teachers are the elect, who have gone astray according to this verse.

I realize it can be very difficult to see the very subtle distinction in the wording of this verse and understand how you could come to that conclusion (and I'm not doing a too good job of explaining it either), but I believe that a distinction exists. The "them", I believe, are those who were bought. The false teachers, on the other hand, were separate to, and apart from those bought, and who were not bought, but nevertheless, were amongst the "them". IOW, the "them" refers only to the people bought but does not include the false teachers.

 

[ThereRoseaLamb]

They were among the people but not of those bought, hence the word "among".

No sorry, that's not what it says.

“But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will (false prophets) secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign LORD who bought them- (the false prophets who had been bought) bringing swift destruction on themselves.”

 

[FollowerofShiloh]

No sorry, that's not what it says.

“But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will (false prophets) secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign LORD who bought them- (the false prophets who had been bought) bringing swift destruction on themselves.”

Do Not let him slide on this and make him accountable for his clear and precise DECEPTION.

 

[Thunderrr-mental]

I realize it can be very difficult to see the very subtle distinction in the wording of this verse and understand how you could come to that conclusion (and I'm not doing a too good job of explaining it either), but I believe that a distinction exists. The "them", I believe, are those who were bought. The false teachers, on the other hand, were separate to, and apart from those bought, and who were not bought, but nevertheless, were amongst the "them". IOW, the "them" refers only to the people bought but does not include the false teachers.

The heavenly life of Jesus is in all men.

Jesus attoned the blood of adam that exists in all mankind.

There for Jesus attoned the blood of all mankind.

Because his heavenly life is in all mankinds blood too.

There is only Jesus who can save souls.

He defeated death for all mankind.

This is paramount to the faith.

 

[FollowerofShiloh]

No sorry, that's not what it says.

“But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will (false prophets) secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign LORD who bought them- (the false prophets who had been bought) bringing swift destruction on themselves.”

The best thing about this is that GOD is WATCHING this conversation between You and him

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

They were among the people but not of those bought, hence the word "among".

The text states "among YOU"... and then... it says "who bought THEM" (why switch the wording from "YOU" to "THEM" here)... why wouldn't this second part say "who bought YOU" (according to your scenario / interpretation / your Calvinist bent, lol)?
That's usually HOW GRAMMAR WORKS.

 

[FollowerofShiloh]

The text states "among YOU"... and then... it says "who bought THEM" (why switch the wording from "YOU" to "THEM" here)... why wouldn't this second part say "who bought YOU" (according to your scenario / interpretation / your Calvinist bent, lol)?

Because it proves 1/3 of his Reformed doctrine to be FALSE is why

ThereRoseaLamb has roger behind the 8-ball and there ain't no pockets for him to hide in

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

Because it proves 1/3 of his Reformed doctrine to be FALSE is why

Well, yes, it is wrong... but why not let us butcher a bunch of grammar in the process?! Ha!

 

[ThereRoseaLamb]

Because it proves 1/3 of his Reformed doctrine to be FALSE is why

ThereRoseaLamb has roger behind the 8-ball and there ain't no pockets for him to hide in

It just seems pretty clear to me what is being said. There aren't two ways to understand what it says.