That's because the bible Is not your bible it's his and you've never read it before or heard it before.
Can the nonelect ever be born-again? (2 Kings 22:27) With the elect thou wilt be elect: and with the perverse thou wilt be perverted.
- Thread starter MerSee
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And there we go. There's a Catholic belief. You cannot read the Bible for yourself. Do you know anything about history? That the Catholic church kept people from reading the Word for themselves and told them all kinds of lies? Do you know about the Dark Ages and why they were called that? I do not think you do.
Do you not understand the work of the Holy Spirit? All that a person needs in is God's Word. Are you telling me that a person who has the Bible cannot be saved unless they have someone explain the Word to them? People have been saved on their deathbed with no John Calvins in site. All the teachers and Shepard a person needs in is the Bible. The need for priests is over. The OT is done. We can come boldly before the throne of God. Jesus did that for us. You don't need someone to read and understand the Bible for you. That is old Catholic heresy.
We don't live under the law.
I have a pastor. But I don't need someone to read the Bible for me. The Bible says study to show thyself approved. Not Calvin doing for you. YOU study the Word. You along with the Holy Spirit. You don't need someone between you and God. My pastor always says "we are learning together, I don't know everything". There are people who will never be able to sit under a pastor. All they have is the Bible and that is all you need to learn everything God wants you to know. In fact in some parts of the world they don't even have a Bible, and they are still saved. You have no need of a Calvin to tell you what God's Word says. It was written for you, it was written to you, and it is all you will ever need to know God personally.
In the beginning the light of all men which was the life of Jesus was created in Adam in heaven. All mankind before the fall.
John 1
4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.
All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made
You're lying to yourself. You said if someone could Biblically show you where he was wrong,you'd be open minded to change. You have been shown but you have become more hysterical about a mere man, Calvin. A great man doesn't get people put to death for disagreeing with him. Calvin was brain washed in the Catholic church and never fully got past it. He set himself up as pope. He was a very flawed man with a heresy that has done more damage than good. Much more.
I think you need to do a little more research on you your hero really was.
Accusing again. smh How can I hate a person I never met? I'm sorry you can't turn loose of his dogma. It has a powerful grip on you. But he did not speak the truth. God is not a murderer, He didn't create evil . God is not a respecter of persons. God wishes all would be saved. Either you believe what the Bible says or Calvin. Calvin is dead and gone, not even bones left. He's not your savior, Jesus is.
When did you stop beating your wife? You brought it up, I didn't. Mentioning where a person is from isn't racist. That's why you have nothing to say.
Typical response from one who cannot defend their position. You claim there's a third interpretation of the gospel but you refuse to tell us what this fantastic non existent version is or where anyone can find evidence of it.
You're suggesting that everyone can invent their own version of the gospel and they are all equally valid. I think God is highly offended and it dishonors thew true gospel message.
The gospel wasn't given to the world for everyone to abuse and trash. How are you supposed to share the gospel when you don't even know how to explain which version is true and which is the doctrine of Demons. Satan quoted the gospel to but He mixed the truth with lies.
I personally believe there is only one truth, I know people hate me for it but I will never abandon the truth for the sake of pride
I am a Catholic, but not a Roman Catholic. Anyway I have a friend who's a Roman Catholic Priest and he told me something that is true but hard to accept. He said the Protestants Evangelicals, hate the fact that the worst thing the Vatican ever did was release the Bible to the public.
I can see his point because when the Vatican changed the prohibition law, (where the public were forbidden) to read the bible and allowed everyone access. It caused the Church to disintegrate into 40,000 vehemently opposed denominations, sects, cults etc.
So I had to agree with him, because releasing the Bible into untrained and unauthorized hands meant that everyone came away with a different interpretation and the Church became a basket case. So I couldn't argue with the Priest as he made a statement of fact.
You reminded me of what the good Priest said, when you tried to push this private interpretation business on me. You just proved his point to me, because your doing exactly what he said caused the Church to disintegrate. He said, everyone is either gathering or scattering. And private interpretations cause the scattering.
I hope you will have another look at your interpretation, and ask your pastor if you have the correct interpretation. From my view point, you're a million miles away from the truth.
Agree MerSee - and of which we are so informed of by this verse.
[Luk 1:77 KJV] 77 To give knowledge of salvation unto his people by the remission of their sins,
Exactly right, that's why God appointed Shepherds to show us the true gospel. The problem is we have too many lost sheep wondering around aimlessly, and professing to be Shepherds. It's actually quite sad to see
Thanks for sharing that gem. It clearly demonstrates that the knowledge of salvation is given to His people by the remission of sin.
Only those who have been regenerated by God, poses a sound mind so they have the knowledge of the truth. The truth of the gospel is foolishness to those who are still in their sin
Yeah, it's easy to tell. And the fact that you believe you cannot understand the Word without a priest, or someone telling you what is says is why you so easily brain washed. And of course your priest friend would say that. If the Catholic people knew the Bible for themselves, the Catholic church would be broke tomorrow. Either way, at least we understand now why you don't understand God or the Bible but you think you do. I hope that changes but I doubt it. I hope one day you will trust God and not man and read the Word for yourself. Other than that, you will stay chained to a man made, or Calvin made, doctrine. You should ask your priest friend about the idea of the elect and Calvin. I don't think he'd be as open to his dogma as you think.
So if a person doesn't have a priest or a preacher they can't be saved. That's what you believe.
Thank you very much, Charlie_2024, but sadly, I don't think it will make any difference to those on this
thread who can't accept election in its true form - but we'll see.... maybe.
The Catholic Church is the Body of the Lord Jesus Christ, be careful how you speak about His body. It's obvious you speak out of ignorance because you don't even know what the Catholic Church means.
I shouldn't have to explain the meaning of words you choose to use. You should look up the meaning of a word in the dictionary if you don't know, so you don't embarrass yourself here. So there's no point in discussing a topic when you don't even know what it's title means. The word Catholic means Universal, you know the one. Jesus only has one Church and it's a universal Church
Yes I believe it because God said it. I don't know if you believe what God has said but I do. I'm not a rouge sheep, I have a Shepherd who leads me.
Yes, we never know who's eyes God may open yet. I'm sure you come across some people who seemed to beyond redemption, in human terms but God worked a miracle in heir lives and saved them.
No I didn't ask you if a person could be saved without God. I'm asking if a person can be saved without a priest or pastor, or even a Bible,
Why would God open the eyes of those He made for destruction? He wouldn't according to you two.