All Of Israel, Or Just A Remnant?

[SabbathBlessing]

We are only sanctified by the Truth of God's Word

Um ….yeah right but not if we reject what his word says though

“By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. ( that’s the truth of Gods word )

but this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God; For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before, This is the covenant that I will make with them After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, And in their minds will I write them; And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more. Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭10:10, 12, 14-18‬ ‭KJV‬‬


I think your mixing up sanctification with eternal judgement

The Truth of God's Word is all of God's Word, not just one verse.

Yes, its wonderful promise that we can be sinners and accepting Christ as our personal Savior and no longer live for ourself, but live for Him and through His blood when we turn from our sins, repent and confess He can cleanse us from all sins and unrighteousness. We are not saved in our sins, we are saved from sin Mat 1:21. Without sanctification of the blood of Christ and us dying of self- there is nothing else to look forward to but judgement. When Jesus cleanses- He says go and sin no more- not keep living the way you are. We need a conversion.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Right. Hearing produces faith. I believe hearing is also given...Matthew 13:10-17.

Given this, I believe spiritual life, what is called converted in the above passage, is the result of the life of the Spirit indwelling the believer. I believe this affects the individual in every aspect...mind, heart, and will. I see this as what happened to the 3,000 who responded the day of Pentecost. I believe this is what happened that led to their response in Acts 2:37:
...when they heard this...their minds were affected...
...they were pricked in their hearts...their heart was circumcised...
...what shall we do...their wills were affected...
So it is my belief that the response to repent and be baptized...Acts 2:38...was born out of the work of God in those individuals.

I realize this isn't everyone's view but I believe it is the teaching of scripture.

Can I ask you a question based upon n this ? The people who end up damned in the end …. Are they there because God forced that and caused it didn’t give them belief and do all the work to save them but others he did ?

so this group of human beings

“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭16:15-16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

If a man ends up here is it because God didn’t do what was needed to save them ? Or because of what they did ?

“Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: for I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not. Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me. And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭25:41-43, 45-46‬ ‭KJV‬‬

did god not allow them and enable them that’s why they are lost ? Or is it because of how they treated other people ?

 

[ForestGreenCook]

No.

I didn't think you did, just checking.

 

[SabbathBlessing]

“Or do we need to die with Christ as well, which means die of our old ways and be reborn in Him. “

yeah that’s in Paul’s doctrine it’s just not about sanctification. Your talking about repentance and obedience that had nothing to do with being sanctified sanctification is something only God can do for us

“Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations.”
‭‭Jeremiah‬ ‭1:5‬ ‭

Note sanctification isnt something we do for ourselves

“For the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband: else were your children unclean; but now are they holy.”
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭7:14‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“for it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer.”
‭‭1 Timothy‬ ‭4:5‬ ‭KJV‬‬

God sanctifies himself as a man and us through telling us the truth of the gospel and inviting belief

“And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth.”
‭‭John‬ ‭17:19‬ ‭KJV‬‬

I think simply sanctification is misunderstood as “ perfected obedience “ it isn’t at all it is God setting someone apart specifically for his purposes for a specific task or reward or job or service or even inheritance

it doesn’t mean a sinner is now beyond temptation and sin it’s something God does for us through Christ

This is still true however

“For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad. Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are made manifest unto God; and I trust also are made manifest in your consciences.”
‭‭2 Corinthians‬ ‭5:10-11‬ ‭KJV‬‬

and this

“Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭5:19-21‬ ‭KJV‬‬

and also this bit this doesn’t have anything to do with sanctification but judgement

“Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.”
‭‭Philippians‬ ‭2:12-13‬ ‭KJV‬‬

No one’s advocating sin just saying sanctification isn’t accomplished by the believer through efforts and works ect this doesn’t mean we’re already saved because we were sanctified but that now we have no excuse left

Of course only God can sanctify us. If Christ sanctifies us, there would be no sin. We would not be living with one foot in the world and one foot in Christ.

 

[Cameron143]

“Given this, I believe spiritual life, what is called converted in the above passage, is the result of the life of the Spirit indwelling the believer. “

right people who have no Holy Spirit need to hear the gospel and receive him

thats what being born again means . No one could be saved if they didnt need to be born again

brother your views are always respected by me , always enjoy hearing your take

everyone is already lost and condemned because we’ve all sinned

“Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.”
‭‭Ezekiel‬ ‭18:4‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭5:12‬ ‭KJV‬‬

see everyone is in the same sinking boat some aren’t already saved they are all doomed we are all doomed to the first death

It’s why we have to be born again because we condemned ourselves through the flesh but God is working to save us through the spirit

everyone is on the same boat facing the same eternal death God wants to save us from death so he has offered a new beginning.

everyone can be born again by the same process but some will beer and believe other will hear and reject that’s what will determine the outcome

that’s just my own thought however anyone can be born again not everyone will be and it won’t be because God failed them or favored others but that be accepted his offer of the gospel and one didn’t

I agree with all you have said. We simply disagree on the order because we disagree on what the natural fallen man is capable of. As always, grace and peace.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

The Truth of God's Word is all of God's Word, not just one verse.

Yes, its wonderful promise that we can be sinners and accepting Christ as our personal Savior and no longer live for ourself, but live for Him and through His blood when we turn from our sins, repent and confess He can cleanse us from all sins and unrighteousness. We are not saved in our sins, we are saved from sin Mat 1:21. Without sanctification of the blood of Christ and us dying of self- there is nothing else to look forward to but judgement. When Jesus cleanses- He says go and sin no more- not keep living the way you are. We need a conversion.

I see so if we want to know about sanctification we should t accept how the Bible says we’re sanctified ? In a plain clear statement like this ?

“By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭10:10‬ ‭KJV‬‬

is the rest of the Bible going to disprove tbat statement ?

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Of course only God can sanctify us. If Christ sanctifies us, there would be no sin. We would not be living with one foot in the world and one foot in Christ.

You dont know what sanctification means

your talking about obedience to the faith and eternal judgement you have some valid points but it’s not about being sanctified sanctified doesn’t mean obedient and sinless it means God has set you apart for something

 

[FollowerofShiloh]

The Truth of God's Word is all of God's Word, not just one verse.

Yes, its wonderful promise that we can be sinners and accepting Christ as our personal Savior and no longer live for ourself, but live for Him and through His blood when we turn from our sins, repent and confess He can cleanse us from all sins and unrighteousness. We are not saved in our sins, we are saved from sin Mat 1:21. Without sanctification of the blood of Christ and us dying of self- there is nothing else to look forward to but judgement. When Jesus cleanses- He says go and sin no more- not keep living the way you are. We need a conversion.

There was a man in our church years ago who would stand up and say, I have repented but keep being trapped in the same sin. My Grandfather explained how true Repentance means a 180 degree turn, as in you stop doing that sin. But it is interesting how people use the term repentance.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

I agree with all you have said. We simply disagree on the order because we disagree on what the natural fallen man is capable of. As always, grace and peace.

So who wasn’t natural and fallen before they heard and believed Jesus ?

 

[SabbathBlessing]

There was a man in our church years ago who would stand up and say, I have repented but keep being trapped in the same sin. My Grandfather explained a true Repentance means a 180 degree turn, as in you stop doing that sin. But it is interesting how people use the term repentance.

It's really the key. It's means a change of heart and direction. Many people want the blessings Christ gives, but don't really want to make any changes and as we grow in Christ we should want to become more like Him. If we stumble and fall along the way Christ is our Advocate but in Him and through Him we can overcome temptation and sin.

 

[FollowerofShiloh]

It's really the key. It's means a change of heart and direction. Many people want the blessings Christ gives, but don't really want to make any changes and as we grow in Christ we should want to become more like Him. If we stumble and fall along the way Christ is our Advocate but in Him and through Him we can overcome temptation and sin.

If a drunk wants to get sober he should not be sitting in a bar every day.

The same thing with a particular sin that trips us up. God gave us the ability to conquer that sin by His Holy Spirit and Power that lives inside of us. If we keep sinning that same sin it means we are not willing to crucify the flesh like Paul wrote about.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Of course only God can sanctify us. If Christ sanctifies us, there would be no sin. We would not be living with one foot in the world and one foot in Christ.

“Of course only God can sanctify us. “

right we agree it is lsnt a process we accomplish through effort repentance and obedience is where we are called now after he died for our sins to repentance not sanctification he’s already called us out to be seperate for his purposes “ sanctified “ is now though what your saying is along this vein

See here where it’s telling us how we are sanctified ? What you are talking about is on further in the chapter regarding repentance and obedience after sanctification

what im saying and I think where we aren’t connecting is being sanctified doesn’t change this part

“By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

(he keeps talking )

For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, but a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses: of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭10:10, 26-29‬ ‭KJV‬‬


Being “sanctified “ doesn’t remove repentance and obedience . I think you are hearing me say “ no one needs to obey Jesus now we’re all sanctified and saved forever regardless of our actions “

That is in no way what I’m saying I’m. Ot even arguing your points in onky saying that’s not sanctification, sanctification is the process of Jesus dying to remit all our sins and setting us apart as his disciples with things to do on earth a works set before us that we’re meant to walk in

 

[ForestGreenCook]

How did any cjrostian ever become born again lol they had to be born to exist …but how do they without faith become born “ again “ ?

were any of Jesus original disciples born again before he died and rose ? Faith originates fro. His word in the gospel we have to hear it first before belief is determined

“But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report? So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭10:16-17‬ ‭

and one can have faith until they first hear the message of Jesus Christ and no one can be born again without faith

Gotta hear the truth in order to believe it hearing comes first belief next

When we are born again God puts the Holy Spirit within us. All of the old testament saints were born again in the same manner that the new testament saint are. God put his holy Spirit within Moses ( Isiah 63:11)

 

[Pilgrimshope]

There was a man in our church years ago who would stand up and say, I have repented but keep being trapped in the same sin. My Grandfather explained how true Repentance means a 180 degree turn, as in you stop doing that sin. But it is interesting how people use the term repentance.

I learned about repentance I feel the most through this which I found to be the true “sinners prayer “

notice where this is coming from within David and a deep regret a deep sorrow and seperation because he is recognizing his sinfulness before God this is truly David’s heart broken and pores out note how David is actually focusing on how God can change him so that he can do better and he isn’t just swearing he’s going to never sin again he recognizes he’s a sinner through and through then he pleads for change from the heart

“Have mercy upon me, O God, according to thy lovingkindness: According unto the multitude of thy tender mercies blot out my transgressions.

Wash me throughly from mine iniquity, And cleanse me from my sin. ( notice he’s counting on God to fix him he’s exalting Gods mercy )

For I acknowledge my transgressions: And my sin is ever before me. Against thee, thee only, have I sinned, and done this evil in thy sight he’s acknolwedgong tbat he committed adultery and had a man killed after impregnating his wife )

That thou mightest be justified when thou speakest, and be clear when thou judgest.

Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; And in sin did my mother conceive me. Behold, thou desirest truth in the inward parts: And in the hidden part thou shalt make me to know wisdom.( again back to how God will do to save him )

Purge me with hyssop, and I shall be clean: Wash me, and I shall be whiter than snow. Make me to hear joy and gladness; That the bones which thou hast broken may rejoice.

Hide thy face from my sins, And blot out all mine iniquities. Create in me a clean heart, O God; And renew a right spirit within me. Cast me not away from thy presence; ( all pleas to God for him to move on David’s behalf ) And take not thy holy spirit from me.

Restore unto me the joy of thy salvation; And uphold me with thy free spirit. Then will I teach transgressors thy ways; And sinners shall be converted unto thee.

Deliver me from bloodguiltiness, O God, thou God of my salvation: And my tongue shall sing aloud of thy righteousness. For thou desirest not sacrifice; else would I give it: Thou delightest not in burnt offering. The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit: A broken and a contrite heart, O God, thou wilt not despise.”
‭‭Psalm‬ ‭51:1-14, 16-17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

My point is repentance isn’t just to say I’m never gonna do that sin again , or even try our best to never sin again repentance is why David was pouring his heart out desperately to God after he realized what he had done and it really sunk in

Repentance comes from the heart and it is focused most on what God is able to do to save them he can change the things that aren’t right in us he can restore our spirit he can teach us righteousness in the inward parts , that he is merciful to those he loves repentance comes most directly from. Beginning to know Jesus seeing how he treated sinners and how he treated the self righteous


At some point I had an idea that God would never associate with eat with fellowship with or care for struggling sinners

and then I met Jesus the lord who gives repentance to believers of the truth through thier softened hearts rather than repentance being something I’m gonna do for myself it’s something Jesus is going to teach me if I follow him and it will be actually written on my heart

 

[Pilgrimshope]

When we are born again God puts the Holy Spirit within us. All of the old testament saints were born again in the same manner that the new testament saint are. God put his holy Spirit within Moses ( Isiah 63:11)

…..all of the Old Testament folks were born again ……never heard that one before and don’t think so

But yeah God sent his spirit to all the judges in including moses that’s not the same thing as being born again it’s God annointing a judge

 

[FollowerofShiloh]

I learned about repentance I feel the most through this which I found to be the true “sinners prayer “

notice where this is coming from within David and a deep regret a deep sorrow and seperation because he is recognizing his sinfulness before God this is truly David’s heart broken and pores out note how David is actually focusing on how God can change him so that he can do better and he isn’t just swearing he’s going to never sin again he recognizes he’s a sinner through and through then he pleads for change from the heart

“Have mercy upon me, O God, according to thy lovingkindness: According unto the multitude of thy tender mercies blot out my transgressions.

Wash me throughly from mine iniquity, And cleanse me from my sin. ( notice he’s counting on God to fix him he’s exalting Gods mercy )

For I acknowledge my transgressions: And my sin is ever before me. Against thee, thee only, have I sinned, and done this evil in thy sighthe’s acknolwedgong tbat he committed adultery and had a man killed after impregnating his wife )

That thou mightest be justified when thou speakest, and be clear when thou judgest.

Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; And in sin did my mother conceive me. Behold, thou desirest truth in the inward parts: And in the hidden part thou shalt make me to know wisdom.( again back to how God will do to save him )

Purge me with hyssop, and I shall be clean: Wash me, and I shall be whiter than snow. Make me to hear joy and gladness; That the bones which thou hast broken may rejoice.

Hide thy face from my sins, And blot out all mine iniquities. Create in me a clean heart, O God; And renew a right spirit within me. Cast me not away from thy presence; ( all pleas to God for him to move on David’s behalf ) And take not thy holy spirit from me.

Restore unto me the joy of thy salvation; And uphold me with thy free spirit. Then will I teach transgressors thy ways; And sinners shall be converted unto thee.

Deliver me from bloodguiltiness, O God, thou God of my salvation: And my tongue shall sing aloud of thy righteousness. For thou desirest not sacrifice; else would I give it: Thou delightest not in burnt offering. The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit: A broken and a contrite heart, O God, thou wilt not despise.”
‭‭Psalm‬ ‭51:1-14, 16-17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

My point is repentance isn’t just to say I’m never gonna do that sin again , or even try our best to never sin again repentance is why David was pouring his heart out desperately to God after he realized what he had done and it really sunk in

Repentance comes from the heart and it is focused most on what God is able to do to save them he can change the things that aren’t right in us he can restore our spirit he can teach us righteousness in the inward parts , that he is merciful to those he loves repentance comes most directly from. Beginning to know Jesus seeing how he treated sinners and how he treated the self righteous


At some point I had an idea that God would never associate with eat with fellowship with or care for struggling sinners

and then I met Jesus the lord who gives repentance to believers of the truth through thier softened hearts rather than repentance being something I’m gonna do for myself it’s something Jesus is going to teach me if I follow him and it will be actually written on my heart

That is pure poetry and truth at its finest point!
I could feel that in the words as I read them, Brother!

 

[Cameron143]

Can I ask you a question based upon n this ? The people who end up damned in the end …. Are they there because God forced that and caused it didn’t give them belief and do all the work to save them but others he did ?

so this group of human beings

“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭16:15-16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

If a man ends up here is it because God didn’t do what was needed to save them ? Or because of what they did ?

“Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: for I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not. Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me. And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭25:41-43, 45-46‬ ‭KJV‬‬

did god not allow them and enable them that’s why they are lost ? Or is it because of how they treated other people ?

People are born under the wrath of God. They are condemned already...John 3:18. But men also bring about there own demise, in a sense, fitting themselves for destruction. They are at enmity against God and live their lives in rebellion against Him. And yet, Romans 1 says they should be able to know God exists from creation itself and from conscience, as eternity has been placed in their hearts. This makes them accountable.

I don't know why God chooses one and not another. I mean, I do...I realize that it redounds to His glory, and I understand and appreciate how it does so...but I don't understand why He chooses as He does. And I recognize that the justice of God verses the love of God tends to bring out emotional responses in people. So for some, the idea of a vengeful and wrathful God is anathema. They can only see God as loving and cuddly, even given the abundance of evidence against it biblically. Or else they believe it is incumbent upon God to first exercise love, and only after giving people every opportunity to then execute justice. I don't understand this to be necessary for a sovereign God who does as He purposes independently of all other considerations.

To some this will seem callous and uncaring and they will not entertain a discussion of such things because they believe it to be impugning God and inaccurately describing Him. I appreciate that view, but I don't find it biblical. I believe God does as He pleases, and operates always within His character. Sometimes that clearly manifests as love, while at other times as justice.

 

[Cameron143]

So who wasn’t natural and fallen before they heard and believed Jesus ?

No one. I just believe they need to be made alive before they will exercise faith. You seem to believe they exercise faith and then receive life.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

So who wasn’t natural and fallen before they heard and believed Jesus ?

The point, I think he is making, the natural cannot hear and believe until he has been born again being one of God's sheep John 10:26.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

People are born under the wrath of God. They are condemned already...John 3:18. But men also bring about there own demise, in a sense, fitting themselves for destruction. They are at enmity against God and live their lives in rebellion against Him. And yet, Romans 1 says they should be able to know God exists from creation itself and from conscience, as eternity has been placed in their hearts. This makes them accountable.

I don't know why God chooses one and not another. I mean, I do...I realize that it redounds to His glory, and I understand and appreciate how it does so...but I don't understand why He chooses as He does. And I recognize that the justice of God verses the love of God tends to bring out emotional responses in people. So for some, the idea of a vengeful and wrathful God is anathema. They can only see God as loving and cuddly, even given the abundance of evidence against it biblically. Or else they believe it is incumbent upon God to first exercise love, and only after giving people every opportunity to then execute justice. I don't understand this to be necessary for a sovereign God who does as He purposes independently of all other considerations.

To some this will seem callous and uncaring and they will not entertain a discussion of such things because they believe it to be impugning God and inaccurately describing Him. I appreciate that view, but I don't find it biblical. I believe God does as He pleases, and operates always within His character. Sometimes that clearly manifests as love, while at other times as justice.

So to simplify brother this group

“Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: for I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.

Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee? Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me. And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭25:41-46‬ ‭KJV‬‬

are they there because God decided they couldn’t be saved ? And arbitrarily chose another group that did nothing but be chosen ?

“Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:

for I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in: naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.

Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink? And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭25:34-37, 40‬ ‭

Does God only will that some repent and are saved ? Does he will that some perish ?

“The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.”
‭‭2 Peter‬ ‭3:9‬ ‭KJV‬‬

it isn’t Gods Will for any one of his creatures to perish but for all of us to come to repentance and live with him forever

life and death is a choice we receive when we hear the gospel everyone is lost until that point everyone is a fallen natural man until they are born again that’s why we have to be born again