Predestination is misunderstood...

[Charlie_2024]

If you have faith you are saved. Faith is the word working in your soul. Our believing is an act of our own volition that reveals who we are. Our believing does not manufacture faith, the word does that. God wants creation to see for itself why He judges as He does and that His judgements are not simply based on some whim of His but upon the reality of how evil and sin do not induce life. God is not a parent who simply says "do as I say because I say so" without reason. There is perfect rationale behind God's every word and He wants that rationale to be known by all. This is what glorifies the Lord, proving He is right. This is why it is so important to learn the word accurately and then to live it because when others are saying, "no, no, no" our lives (when lived according to truth) prove God to be right and He is glorified through us.

That is human philosophy, it can't be supported by any scripture. It sounds right, but God said, "there is a way that seems right onto men but the end thereof is death"

 

[sawdust]

That is human philosophy, it can't be supported by any scripture. It sounds right, but God said, "there is a way that seems right onto men but the end thereof is death"

Try Romans 10:17 faith comes from where?

We agree on the human viewpoint thing though. Have you considered maybe you are the one who is wrong?

 

[Charlie_2024]

The problem is that statement is circular. Only believers are Elect so only the Elect are going to believe. Unfortunately you never get to the heart of why some believe and some do not and because you make God responsible for that, you also make Him a tyrant for condemning those He chose to condemn by not electing them. We are not all sinners because of what we did as individuals, we are sinners because of what Adam did. You have unbelievers condemned by what Adam did and then further condemned by what God failed to do. It's pure lunacy.

Again, more unbiblical man made philosophical gobbledygook.

You can't blame God for punishing sinners, I demand that He casts them into hell or I will abandon my faith.
All of this twisting and turning and contradicting, leaves my head spinning. Why don't you just let your yes be yes and your no be no, everything apart from these is of the Devil.

God doesn't torment anyone in hell for Adams sin, He does it because they sinned against Him

 

[Charlie_2024]

Many people have seen the Risen Christ since the Ascension so I don't know what exactly you think is unique about Paul's experience.

How could anyone have seen Him, since He's been in Heaven for the past 2000 years. I'm sure many claim to Astro travel as you're suggesting but they're deluded or drugged up. nobody has seen Christ since He ascended to heaven

 

[CS1]

Roman 12:3
For I say, through the grace given to me, to everyone who is among you,

not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think,
but to think soberly, as God has dealt to each one a measure of faith.

sorry Charlie

 

[Charlie_2024]

Try Romans 10:17 faith comes from where?

We agree on the human viewpoint thing though. Have you considered maybe you are the one who is wrong?

Yes but you forgot, when it was given. We hear the gospel and respond with faith which was given to us before the world was made. You just can't sidestep that one

 

[Charlie_2024]

Roman 12:3
For I say, through the grace given to me, to everyone who is among you,

not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think,
but to think soberly, as God has dealt to each one a measure of faith.

sorry Charlie

No, that's not the way I understand those verses. I look at them through Gods sovereignty, in all things. So man has no input to his salvation at all, zilch nada....

 

[sawdust]

Again, more unbiblical man made philosophical gobbledygook.

You can't blame God for punishing sinners, I demand that He casts them into hell or I will abandon my faith.
All of this twisting and turning and contradicting, leaves my head spinning. Why don't you just let your yes be yes and your no be no, everything apart from these is of the Devil.

God doesn't torment anyone in hell for Adams sin, He does it because they sinned against Him

You don't hear a word I say only what you want to hear. So be it. It is one of the six ways of communication, I get that but that doesn't mean I have to put up with it.

Have a nice day.

 

[sawdust]

We hear the gospel and respond with faith

You don't respond with faith, you receive faith when you believe.

You simply don't get it.

 

[Thunderrr-mental]

We have already established that Paul's experience on the road was unique to him and it was never repeated since then so it's not applicable to us in 2024.
All we have is the bible, God neve gave anyone any special revelation or power for the past 2000 years so you can put that concern to bed. It just ain't gonna happen in our time

My advice is to love the life that is in you and everything else will follow 🙂

 

[Genez]

This makes no sense at all. Why would God chose His Elect before the foundation of the world..

If you would only listen, you would find out....

Chosen "in Him."

Eve was "in Adam" before her body was made manifest.

Likewise...

Only those whom God predestined to be born to believe during the Church age
has our body now residing "in Him."


To be revealed in glory in the Resurrection of the Church!

Right now? The real you and me is hidden IN HIM!
In Him, being seated with Him in the heavenlies!

You need to stop thinking in human viewpoint to get this straight according to God's Word.
The guy in the shop with you will not get what I will tell you unless the Spirit opens his eyes of his heart to see it.

Here it is....

Ephesians 2:6-7​

​

And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus, ​

in order that in the coming ages he might show the incomparable riches of his grace, expressed ​

in his kindness to us in Christ Jesus."​

Where He is now seated? We are also with Him- In Him! ​

​

The real you and me is hidden in His glorious body RIGHT NOW! ​

​

But for Adam no suitable helper was found. So the Lord God caused the man ​

to fall into a deep sleep; and while he was sleeping, he took one of the man’s ​

ribs and then closed up the place with flesh. Then the Lord God made a woman ​

from the rib he had taken out of the man, and he brought her to the man.​

​

The man said,​

​

“This is now bone of my bones​

and flesh of my flesh;​

she shall be called ‘woman,’​

for she was taken out of man. Genesis 2:20-23​

That is why we are the Bride of Christ!

Eve's body was hidden in Adam's body, later to be revealed by the Lord as the bride of Adam!
Eve was... "bone of his bones and flesh of his flesh!"

In the Resurrection what will happen?

Our own Everlasting body shall be to the the Lord's as Eve's body was to Adam!

Its a hidden mystery that is out in the open!

........ Now for something else.


In the ancient world of Rome, when a son was adopted? The one adopted as a son in the ancient world wood inherit the family privileges of the one who adopted him.

That is why we are are co-heirs with Christ!
For all that is is His? Is ours too!
We must first be resurrected to see all that will be.

We will find out what that means after we are Resurrected!


.... And, some of you here want to argue every day that if we believe, we are doing something to be saved?

There is so much more to know!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

grace and peace .......

 

[Genez]

The most scary thing in the bible is what Jesus says to those who thought they were Christians but only to find they they were never truly converted and they were self deluded. They come to Jesus on judgement day and say Lord, Lord haven't we done all these things in your name. He will answer the depart from Me into the everlasting fire for I never knew you.

Jesus was speaking of a specific kind of fake believer. Those like Kenneth Hagin and Kenneth Copeland.
Jesus gave specific things to look for...

Matthew 7:21-23​

​

“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one ​

who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. On that day many will say to me, ​

​

‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do ​

many mighty works in your name?’ ​

​

And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’​

False teachers will manifest Satanic power in Jesus name to impress the stupid with things they can see and touch....
And, then teach false doctrines that the followers will eat up in charged emotional state!

We have such teachers among the churches today.....

Jesus gave specific things to look out for!

‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, ​

and cast out demons in your name, and do ​

many mighty works in your name?’ ​

Those things!


grace and peace .....................

 

[sawdust]

.... And, some of you here want to argue every day that if we believe, we are doing something to be saved?

There is so much more to know!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

grace and peace .......

I believe the sun will rise tomorrow. How powerful must I be to make that happen!

 

[John146]

You're looking at all the steps as seen from mans view. I'm pointing out the fact that from God's perspective, all of these steps were finished before He created the world. Every single person who will ever be saved was already chosen and saved in God economy, because He sees the begging of time and the end of time as if it had already come to pass.

There's no need to get frustrated about Gods sovereignty and omniscience. We can't process Gods foreknowledge and break it down into bite sized pieces to digest. His ways are beyond finding out, and His ways are infinitely higher than ours

As I thought, opinions and zero scripture.

 

[John146]

Not one Calvinist has ever been able to explain Jonah.

1. God told Jonah to preach a message of destruction, “yet forty days and Nineveh will be overthrown.”
2. Nineveh believed the message and repented.
3. God saw their repentance and he repented of the destruction that he said he would do unto them and he did it not.

 

[Cameron143]

Not one Calvinist has ever been able to explain Jonah.

1. God told Jonah to preach a message of destruction, “yet forty days and Nineveh will be overthrown.”
2. Nineveh believed the message and repented.
3. God saw their repentance and he repented of the destruction that he said he would do unto them and he did it not.

More correctly...explained to your satisfaction. I went to great lengths to explain it. You simply didn't receive it.

Not that I'm a Calvinist though.

 

[PaulThomson]

How could anyone have seen Him, since He's been in Heaven for the past 2000 years. I'm sure many claim to Astro travel as you're suggesting but they're deluded or drugged up. nobody has seen Christ since He ascended to heaven

there's two more things the Bible says that you don't believe. Jesus daid, "I will be with you always to the end of the age". And Jesus said, nothing is impossible with God."
You say Jesus isn't here, and He can't appear to people, even if he wants to. calvinists don't believe the Bible. They believe in TULIP and refuse to see anything in the Bible that speaks against TULIP. or whatever other nonsense they come up with.

 

[Genez]

More correctly...explained to your satisfaction. I went to great lengths to explain it. You simply didn't receive it.

Not that I'm a Calvinist though.

You sure dunn set him straight with that one!

Yup, sir! You shoor dunn dood it!


... Lord forgive them. For they think they know what they are doing.


.

 

[PaulThomson]

I believe the sun will rise tomorrow. How powerful must I be to make that happen!

I expect Charlie strains really hard to believe the sun will rise in the morning. Faith is a work/effort to him.

 

[Genez]

I expect Charlie strains really hard to believe the sun will rise in the morning. Faith is a work/effort to him.

If you ever met his wife Faith you would know why!