Predestination is misunderstood...
- Thread starter Genez
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
That's not what my bible says. You have failed to understand what "salvation" means, you can't have predestination, adoption and redemption without salvation. You just don't make any biblical sense, you're trying to impose some mystical philosophy to Gods salvation of His elec. And it just doesn't work, it full of holes and errors.
Exactly! One must be saved in order to be predestined unto the adoption. Once a man believes the gospel and is saved, the Holy Spirit seals that believer unto the future adoption which is the redemption of the body.
Ephesians 4:30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.
This makes no sense at all. Why would God chose His Elect before the foundation of the world. If your view was correct then He would wait until the man is born and allow him to believe the gospel and receive salvation.
But the bible says no such thig, it clearly tells us thew decisions was made by God before the world was made. How did the names of His elect appear in His book before they were born. Your theory is full of holes and it doesn't stand up to scripture.
My car was depraved last week, but my Pentecostal mechanic was having revival last week and I'm back on the road in a vehicle on fire. I'm considering painting some flames on the fenders and a dove on the hood.
In the Greek its nous and kardia.
The 'nous' (mind) is where we learn and store knowledge academically . (gnosis)
The 'kardia' (heart) is where that knowledge is made to be alive (epignosis) by the filling of the Spirit, and to be one with our life, like food digested becomes a part of our living essence..
When it says that 'knowledge' puffs up a man? (1 Corinthians 8:1)
That speaks of the typical theological dweeb who spouts off theological facts to impress others, but manifests no life in Christ.
Would that be the fire of the Holy spirit
I heard That Holy spirit was a mechanic to you know
.
You haven't forgotten Herby gone bananas have you
God doesn't decide if you should believe. He decides if you were given the gift of faith. There's no such word as "should" in God vocabulary, He uses yes or no, and none of this should stuff.Then I don't have a choice to believe do I as according to you it is God who decided I should believe so your earlier post was incorrect about me being able to believe what God says about Himself.
Ergo, you must think I am not saved otherwise I would think as you think as God cannot lie and he would not tell me something different about Himself than what He told you.
I don't think you understand just how divisive your doctrine is.
I don't know if you're saved, only you and God know that. When Gods Elect hear the gospel, they respond by believing it and God does the work of salvation in their lives. But only those who poses the gift of faith will respond, by believing the gospel. The rest will remain in their sin until they are cast into hell.
The most scary thing in the bible is what Jesus says to those who thought they were Christians but only to find they they were never truly converted and they were self deluded. They come to Jesus on judgement day and say Lord, Lord haven't we done all these things in your name. He will answer the depart from Me into the everlasting fire for I never knew you.
This means many professing believers will be cast into hell, I believe the reason for that is, they believed in a false gospel.
God is omniscient. Out from His omniscience He saw who would desire a relationship with Him and who would not. He separated the believers from the unbelievers and with believers in mind only (foreknowledge) He designed a destiny for them. Predestination is based on foreknowledge. It is not based on some unknown quantity of pot luck but on God knowing beforehand who we are.
My "theory" (as you allege) is not full of holes, you simply don't have enough information to understand it.
Just read the gospel accounts, they will show you God doesn't meet anyone anywhere
What about this Charlie
The Damascus Road: Saul Converted
9 Then Saul, still breathing threats and murder against the disciples of the Lord, went to the high priest 2 and asked letters from him to the synagogues of Damascus, so that if he found any who were of the Way, whether men or women, he might bring them bound to Jerusalem.
3 As he journeyed he came near Damascus, and suddenly a light shone around him from heaven. 4 Then he fell to the ground, and heard a voice saying to him, “Saul, Saul, why are you persecuting Me?”
5 And he said, “Who are You, Lord?”
Then the Lord said, “I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting. [a]It is hard for you to kick against the goads.”
6 So he, trembling and astonished, said, “Lord, what do You want me to do?”
Then the Lord said to him, “Arise and go into the city, and you will be told what you must do.”
I've worked out what Jean Calvin was saying what he was trying to tell us.
A true person of the lord doesn't deprave people because he's not depraved, and if a person does deprave people, he is depraved, and likely if he carries on will become totally depraved
I also believe Jean Calvin did not want people to call themselves Calvinists after his name, because he wanted you to follow God
You're looking at all the steps as seen from mans view. I'm pointing out the fact that from God's perspective, all of these steps were finished before He created the world. Every single person who will ever be saved was already chosen and saved in God economy, because He sees the begging of time and the end of time as if it had already come to pass.
There's no need to get frustrated about Gods sovereignty and omniscience. We can't process Gods foreknowledge and break it down into bite sized pieces to digest. His ways are beyond finding out, and His ways are infinitely higher than ours
If you have faith you are saved. Faith is the word working in your soul. Our believing is an act of our own volition that reveals who we are. Our believing does not manufacture faith, the word does that. God wants creation to see for itself why He judges as He does and that His judgements are not simply based on some whim of His but upon the reality of how evil and sin do not induce life. God is not a parent who simply says "do as I say because I say so" without reason. There is perfect rationale behind God's every word and He wants that rationale to be known by all. This is what glorifies the Lord, proving He is right. This is why it is so important to learn the word accurately and then to live it because when others are saying, "no, no, no" our lives (when lived according to truth) prove God to be right and He is glorified through us.
No that theory doesn't hold water, many have tried to suggest that God looked down the corridors of time and saw Johnny helping the old lady cross the street and decided that Johnny was a good boy deserving of salvation.
That's not what the bible teaches at all
The problem is that statement is circular. Only believers are Elect so only the Elect are going to believe. Unfortunately you never get to the heart of why some believe and some do not and because you make God responsible for that, you also make Him a tyrant for condemning those He chose to condemn by not electing them. We are not all sinners because of what we did as individuals, we are sinners because of what Adam did. You have unbelievers condemned by what Adam did and then further condemned by what God failed to do. It's pure lunacy.
We have already established that Paul's experience on the road was unique to him and it was never repeated since then so it's not applicable to us in 2024.
All we have is the bible, God neve gave anyone any special revelation or power for the past 2000 years so you can put that concern to bed. It just ain't gonna happen in our time
I said nothing about good deeds or about deserving salvation. This is why you can't understand because you don't hear what is actually said only what you want to hear so you can deny, deny, deny.
If that is all you can manage, I see no point in further discussion.
Many people have seen the Risen Christ since the Ascension so I don't know what exactly you think is unique about Paul's experience.