Can the nonelect ever be born-again? (2 Kings 22:27) With the elect thou wilt be elect: and with the perverse thou wilt be perverted.

[TheDivineWatermark]

Genesis 15:6 -

Berean Standard Bible
Abram believed the LORD, and it was credited to him as righteousness.

King James Bible
And he believed in the LORD; and he counted it to him for righteousness.

New King James Version
And he believed in the LORD, and He accounted it to him for righteousness.

New American Standard Bible
Then he believed in the LORD; and He credited it to him as righteousness.

NASB 1995
Then he believed in the LORD; and He reckoned it to him as righteousness.

NASB 1977
Then he believed in the LORD; and He reckoned it to him as righteousness.

Legacy Standard Bible
Then he believed in Yahweh; and He counted it to him as righteousness.




Galatians 3:6 -
So also, "Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness."

James 2:23 -
And the Scripture was fulfilled that says, "Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness," and he was called a friend of God.



Romans 4:18-25 -

Rom 4:18
Who against hope believed in hope, that he might become the father of many nations, according to that which was spoken, So shall thy seed be.
Rom 4:19
And being not weak in faith, he considered not his own body now dead, when he was about an hundred years old, neither yet the deadness of Sara's womb:
Rom 4:20
He staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God;
Rom 4:21
And being fully persuaded that, what he had promised, he was able also to perform.
Rom 4:22
And therefore it was imputed to him for righteousness.
Rom 4:23
Now it was not written for his sake alone, that it was imputed to him;
Rom 4:24
But for us also, to whom it shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead;
Rom 4:25
Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

No, Abraham did not choose to his faith/belief was a gift given to him by God

Thats not true
God gave abraham a choice. He wanted abraham to do something, Abraham chose of his free will to believe God and go.

[Rom 4:9 KJV] 9 [Cometh] this blessedness then upon the circumcision [only], or upon the uncircumcision also? for we say that faith was reckoned to Abraham for righteousness.

1. Abrahams faith was accounted as righteousness. Not his faith was accounted to him..

2. It is still abrahams faith..

11 And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had while still uncircumcised, that he might be the father of all those who believe, though they are uncircumcised, that righteousness might be imputed to them also, 12 and the father of circumcision to those who not only are of the circumcision, but who also walk in the steps of the faith which our father Abraham had while still uncircumcised.

16 Therefore it is of faith that it might be according to grace, so that the promise might be [d]sure to all the seed, not only to those who are of the law, but also to those who are of the faith of Abraham, who is the father of us all

Its our faith.

You can't just rip verses out of a passage and make it say what you want.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

And the faith given to Abraham (and to all who become saved) is Christ's faith because only Christ's faith is righteous - a man's self-produced faith is not.

lol

MAN DOES NOT PRODUCE FAITH ACCEPT IN HIMSELF.

Where do you come up with this stuff.

My fgaith in God is not produced by me, it is produced by the person who proves faithful, and earns my trust.

 

[rogerg]

Thats not true
God gave abraham a choice. He wanted abraham to do something, Abraham chose of his free will to believe God and go.

No one of themselves can have faith nor choose to believe God.

[1Co 2:14 KJV] 14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know [them], because they are spiritually discerned.

1. Abrahams faith was accounted as righteousness. Not his faith was accounted to him..

2. It is still abrahams faith..

No, it was Christ's faith imputed TO Abraham. Read the verse closely - that faith was reckoned to Abraham. This means that until faith was reckoned to him, he didn't have faith, otherwise it wouldn't have needed it to be reckoned.

 

[Thunderrr-mental]

God said He hated Esau while he was still in the womb, so you don't think that a unborn baby is human. What are you on about man, make some sense and stop using childish puzzles

Why did he say this tho

Why he say this Charly.

 

[Thunderrr-mental]

God said He hated Esau while he was still in the womb, so you don't think that a unborn baby is human. What are you on about man, make some sense and stop using childish puzzles

I know maybe God maybe not like esau because he was kicking Jacob in the womb

 

[Thunderrr-mental]

That's speaking about the elect of God, as nobody else turns away from their wickedness except for the elect of God

whose life lives in all men Charly

 

[Thunderrr-mental]

Again, many say David Copperfield is a good candidate but of' course nobody knows for sure

. Who's life was breathed into Adam Charly

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

No one of themselves can have faith nor choose to believe God.

[1Co 2:14 KJV] 14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know [them], because they are spiritually discerned.

Your right, Thats why God has to show them and give them an opportunity to say yes lord or no lord. Its the work of God we believe, not our own work

No, it was Christ's faith imputed TO Abraham.

No it was not

HIS FAITH WAS ACCOUNTED OR IMPUTED AS RIGHTEOUSNESS.

You did not read the whole passage

11 And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had while still uncircumcised, that he might be the father of all those who believe, though they are uncircumcised, that righteousness might be imputed to them also,

Read the verse closely - that faith was reckoned to Abraham. This means that until faith was reckoned to him, he didn't have faith, otherwise it wouldn't have needed it to be reckoned.

No. It says his faith was reckoned as righteousness..

He did have faith, thats why he was declaired righteous,. Christ righteousness was imputed to him.

 

[Thunderrr-mental]

I'm sorry but there's no way to sugar coat the awful truth. God hates Esau because God knows that Esau was reprobate, meaning he would never repent because God chose to never give him the gift of repentance.

This sounds cruel from our perspective, because God said I hated him before he was born and before he did any good or bad. This hatred was not only directed at Esau but at billions upon billions of men, women, children and unborn babies at the time of Noah's flood. God said I will destroy them off the earth and He only saved 8 people and the rest of humanity were killed.

His hatred still abides on the majority of the inhabitants of the earth to this day. He's coming back as a Man of war to kill billions again. Read the book of revelation and you will find that this coming blood bath will be worse than anything else in history. The blood will flow 7 feet high, so were talking many billions slaughtered.

I think it's important to consider the fact that God sees the future as if it had already happened, so we can assume that God saw that Esau and all the other reprobate people He hates were going to grow up to be wicked and rebellious people.

We don't know who's who, but God knows everyone as if they have lived to an old age and died, before they're born. Most Christians believe that God lied when He claimed to be omniscient and omnipresent, they just refuse to give God that much power so they create a false weak god in their mind, and keep him as a pet or a Genie in a bottle.

Who is man to tell God what He can and can't do, God has the right to do as He will's with His creation. He makes vessels fit for destruction and He makes others to love.

what is missing Charly

Who was Holy and blameless in the garden of eden

Who's life was breathed into Adam

Who's life was Holy and blameless in Adam

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

. Who's life was breathed into Adam Charly

Adam?

 

[rogerg]

And he believed in the LORD; and he counted it to him for righteousness.

Correct. But to come to a correct understanding, we need to compare scripture with scripture - especially in the case of the
above verse. Let's look at it more closely:

[Gen 15:6 KJV] 6 And he believed in the LORD; and he counted it to him for righteousness.

first "he" : Abraham
second "he" : Abraham
him: God

IOW: God imputed faith to Abraham and by that faith Abraham was able to attribute his believing to God - that his having received it was because Christ is righteous. And having been given that faith, Abraham was made righteous. That is why we are told:

[Rom 1:17 KJV] 17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

The "from faith to faith"" means from Christ's faith, it becoming our faith, by/from which, we are imputed righteousness -
the same righteousness that Abraham was imputed.

 

[Thunderrr-mental]

Adam?

John 1
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was with God in the beginning. 3 Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. 4 In him was life, and that life was the light of all mankind.

Who's life was breathed into Adam

 

[rogerg]

You did not read the whole passage

11 And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had while still uncircumcised, that he might be the father of all those who believe, though they are uncircumcised, that righteousness might be imputed to them also,

Abraham was the first. The righteousness imputed to him is also imputed to all who become saved, hence the "that righteousness might be imputed to them also"

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

Correct. But to come to a correct understanding, we need to compare scripture with scripture - especially in the case of the
above verse. Let's look at it more closely:

[Gen 15:6 KJV] 6 And he believed in the LORD; and he counted it to him for righteousness.

first "he" : Abraham
second "he" : Abraham
him: God

IOW: God imputed faith to Abraham and by that faith Abraham was able to attribute his believing to God - that his having received it is because Christ is righteous. And having been given that faith, Abraham was made righteous. That is why we are told:

[Rom 1:17 KJV] 17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

The "from faith to faith"" means from Christ's faith, it becoming our faith, by/from which, we are imputed righteousness -
the same righteousness that Abraham was imputed.

Again, Error

Try reading the whole passage.

11 And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had while still uncircumcised, that he might be the father of all those who believe, though they are uncircumcised, that righteousness might be imputed to them also,

he - Abraham
Recieved - seal of righteousness
We - (all who have the faith of abraham)
Recieve - Righteousness.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

You can't just rip verses out of a passage and make it say what you want.

Right.

Verse 9 must agree with verses 3 ("Abraham believed God, and..." [Gen15:6]) as well the passage further down (vv.18-25, esp. v.22's "and therefore it was imputed to him for righteousness" in view of the preceding verses, spelled out in Post #1201)

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

Abraham was the first. The righteousness imputed to him is also imputed to all who become saved, hence the "that righteousness might be imputed to them also"

yes,

and how was that righteousness imputed?

HE BELIEVED GOD and IT (his faith) was ACCOUNTED AS RIGHTEOUSNESS

 

[Thunderrr-mental]

Adam?

Adam was not alive, how can Adam be breathed into Adam

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

Adam was not alive, how can Adam be breathed into Adam

How can adam's soul (life) not be breathed into him to make him adam?

 

[rogerg]

Again, Error

Try reading the whole passage.

11 And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had while still uncircumcised, that he might be the father of all those who believe, though they are uncircumcised, that righteousness might be imputed to them also,

he - Abraham
Recieved - seal of righteousness
We - (all who have the faith of abraham)
Recieve - Righteousness.

So we inherit faith from Abraham? Really, that Abrahm's faith is what saves us? Abraham is the father because he was circumcised as a sign or symbol of the faith. He is the father of those who would be given the true circumcision but not of the flesh. It is not saying that his faith was of himself. If what you are saying were true, then we would all need to produce our own faith independently. How then would that then make Abraham the father of our faith - we would each then be the father of our own faith.