All Of Israel, Or Just A Remnant?

[2ndTimothyGroup]

This concept has bothered me for quite some time. Does anyone have any ideas of how we justify the two below, and apparently opposing concepts?

Romans 9:27 NLT – “And concerning Israel, Isaiah the prophet cried out, "Though the people of Israel are as numerous as the sand of the seashore, only a remnant will be saved.”
Romans 11:25-26 NLT – “I want you to understand this mystery, dear brothers and sisters, so that you will not feel proud about yourselves. Some of the people of Israel have hard hearts, but this will last only until the full number of Gentiles comes to Christ. 26 And so all Israel will be saved. As the Scriptures say, "The one who rescues will come from Jerusalem, and he will turn Israel away from ungodliness.”

I'm studying this as I write, so any ideas would be helpful. Thanks!

And those of you who want to fight and nit-pick . . . please don't participate. You suck the joy right out of what we're trying to accomplish, here.

 

[p_rehbein]

That's the problem with not reading ALL of the passage by Paul. You left out vs. 23, why?

23And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again.

See how that makes it clear that not ALL Jews will be saved? Consider how many Jews have died in their unbelief/rejection of Jesus from then to now. Those that die in their unbelief will be judged by the Law, and, as we know, that ain't gonna work out too well for them.

Romans, Chapter 2: 12For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;

 

[p_rehbein]

BTW: Scripture must always agree. If one reads all references to some question, one will discover that always does. One MUST read ALL of the scripture(s) concerning a particular subject/question.

 

[Takiyah]

This concept has bothered me for quite some time. Does anyone have any ideas of how we justify the two below, and apparently opposing concepts?

Romans 9:27 NLT – “And concerning Israel, Isaiah the prophet cried out, "Though the people of Israel are as numerous as the sand of the seashore, only a remnant will be saved.”
Romans 11:25-26 NLT – “I want you to understand this mystery, dear brothers and sisters, so that you will not feel proud about yourselves. Some of the people of Israel have hard hearts, but this will last only until the full number of Gentiles comes to Christ. 26 And so all Israel will be saved. As the Scriptures say, "The one who rescues will come from Jerusalem, and he will turn Israel away from ungodliness.”

I'm studying this as I write, so any ideas would be helpful. Thanks!

And those of you who want to fight and nit-pick . . . please don't participate. You suck the joy right out of what we're trying to accomplish, here.

Hello….Romans 9:27 is quoting Isaiah 10:22-23 which is where the remnant are mentioned. The remnant are often the ones that reap blessings after some major event. Such as the Exodus and the aftermath. After wondering in the wilderness, only a remnant (those of the next generation) made it to the promised land. Now that we are covered by the Blood Sacrifice of Yeshua, ALL that call on His name will be saved.

 

[2ndTimothyGroup]

You left out vs. 23, why?

Uhhhh....because I'm not perfect? Good grief.

 

[Nehemiah6]

I'm studying this as I write, so any ideas would be helpful. Thanks!

Yes, only a remnant will be saved and that would be "believing Israel" -- those who believe on the Lord Jesus Christ. But a "remnant" out of the many Jews who will be on earth at that time will still be a large number.

As to "all Israel" God sees those who belong to the twelve tribes at all times, so "all Israel" means that every tribe will be represented in redeemed Israel. Obviously only believing Jews who have been born again are the one included. Ezekiel 48 presents all these tribes.

God does not contradict Himself, but He does expect us to rightly divide the word of truth

 

[2ndTimothyGroup]

Hello….Romans 9:27 is quoting Isaiah 10:22-23 which is where the remnant are mentioned. The remnant are often the ones that reap blessings after some major event. Such as the Exodus and the aftermath. After wondering in the wilderness, only a remnant (those of the next generation) made it to the promised land. Now that we are covered by the Blood Sacrifice of Yeshua, ALL that call on His name will be saved.

Hello Takiyah! Thanks for sharing. I still don't feel like I have a solid grasp on subject. And honestly I'm not sure if I can. Somethings missing.

 

[2ndTimothyGroup]

Yes, only a remnant will be saved and that would be "believing Israel" -- those who believe on the Lord Jesus Christ. But a "remnant" out of the many Jews who will be on earth at that time will still be a large number.

As to "all Israel" God sees those who belong to the twelve tribes at all times, so "all Israel" means that every tribe will be represented in redeemed Israel. Obviously only believing Jews who have been born again are the one included. Ezekiel 48 presents all these tribes.

God does not contradict Himself, but He does expect us to rightly divide the word of truth

Thank you so much. I'm sure that I'll be coming back to this as I keep working through Romans to see if I can make proper sense of the differences.

 

[Takiyah]

Yes, only a remnant will be saved and that would be "believing Israel" -- those who believe on the Lord Jesus Christ. But a "remnant" out of the many Jews who will be on earth at that time will still be a large number.

As to "all Israel" God sees those who belong to the twelve tribes at all times, so "all Israel" means that every tribe will be represented in redeemed Israel. Obviously only believing Jews who have been born again are the one included. Ezekiel 48 presents all these tribes.

God does not contradict Himself, but He does expect us to rightly divide the word of truth

Abba did say, “My people perish for lack of knowledge.” I believe the multitude who are excluded just do not know who they are…due to the whole scattered about the earth fulfilled prophesy...in addition, no acceptance or faith in Yah and the Salvation He provides for us all helps seal their fate.

 

[Takiyah]

Hello Takiyah! Thanks for sharing. I still don't feel like I have a solid grasp on subject. And honestly I'm not sure if I can. Somethings missing.

Pray for discernment and you will gain more understanding. In time, the Spirit will complete what’s missing.

 

[PennEd]

This concept has bothered me for quite some time. Does anyone have any ideas of how we justify the two below, and apparently opposing concepts?

Romans 9:27 NLT – “And concerning Israel, Isaiah the prophet cried out, "Though the people of Israel are as numerous as the sand of the seashore, only a remnant will be saved.”
Romans 11:25-26 NLT – “I want you to understand this mystery, dear brothers and sisters, so that you will not feel proud about yourselves. Some of the people of Israel have hard hearts, but this will last only until the full number of Gentiles comes to Christ. 26 And so all Israel will be saved. As the Scriptures say, "The one who rescues will come from Jerusalem, and he will turn Israel away from ungodliness.”

I'm studying this as I write, so any ideas would be helpful. Thanks!

And those of you who want to fight and nit-pick . . . please don't participate. You suck the joy right out of what we're trying to accomplish, here.

I think it means all who WILL become Israel will be saved.
Gentile and Jew alike.
A lot of us Christians forget that we are in effect Jewish through being grafted in to THE Jewish Messiah.

 

[Inquisitor]

This concept has bothered me for quite some time. Does anyone have any ideas of how we justify the two below, and apparently opposing concepts?

Romans 9:27 NLT – “And concerning Israel, Isaiah the prophet cried out, "Though the people of Israel are as numerous as the sand of the seashore, only a remnant will be saved.”
Romans 11:25-26 NLT – “I want you to understand this mystery, dear brothers and sisters, so that you will not feel proud about yourselves. Some of the people of Israel have hard hearts, but this will last only until the full number of Gentiles comes to Christ. 26 And so all Israel will be saved. As the Scriptures say, "The one who rescues will come from Jerusalem, and he will turn Israel away from ungodliness.”

I'm studying this as I write, so any ideas would be helpful. Thanks!

And those of you who want to fight and nit-pick . . . please don't participate. You suck the joy right out of what we're trying to accomplish, here.

Your not the only one that has struggled through Romans.

I believe even the author, Paul, had issues with the way God works through this creation.

Romans 11:33
Oh, the depth of the riches, both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable are His judgments and unfathomable His ways!

Not many folk fully understand the letter to the Romans.

 

[Inquisitor]

I think it means all who WILL become Israel will be saved.
Gentile and Jew alike.
A lot of us Christians forget that we are in effect Jewish through being grafted in to THE Jewish Messiah.

Is that right?

Ephesians 3:27-28
For all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus.

We are a new creation in Christ and we have no earthly nationality.

 

[Shilohsfoal]

This concept has bothered me for quite some time. Does anyone have any ideas of how we justify the two below, and apparently opposing concepts?

Romans 9:27 NLT – “And concerning Israel, Isaiah the prophet cried out, "Though the people of Israel are as numerous as the sand of the seashore, only a remnant will be saved.”
Romans 11:25-26 NLT – “I want you to understand this mystery, dear brothers and sisters, so that you will not feel proud about yourselves. Some of the people of Israel have hard hearts, but this will last only until the full number of Gentiles comes to Christ. 26 And so all Israel will be saved. As the Scriptures say, "The one who rescues will come from Jerusalem, and he will turn Israel away from ungodliness.”

I'm studying this as I write, so any ideas would be helpful. Thanks!

And those of you who want to fight and nit-pick . . . please don't participate. You suck the joy right out of what we're trying to accomplish, here.

There are people in Israel dying everyday who are not saved.I think that fact proves Romans 11:26 isn't what it sounds like.

Watch,someone in Israel will die today and they were not saved.So much for all.

 

[LeeLoving]

Romans 11:25-27 (KJV)

25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.

It seems in the future after the full number of the Gentiles has come in those who are a part of Israel that are alive will be saved - "all Israel".

 

[Cameron143]

This concept has bothered me for quite some time. Does anyone have any ideas of how we justify the two below, and apparently opposing concepts?

Romans 9:27 NLT – “And concerning Israel, Isaiah the prophet cried out, "Though the people of Israel are as numerous as the sand of the seashore, only a remnant will be saved.”
Romans 11:25-26 NLT – “I want you to understand this mystery, dear brothers and sisters, so that you will not feel proud about yourselves. Some of the people of Israel have hard hearts, but this will last only until the full number of Gentiles comes to Christ. 26 And so all Israel will be saved. As the Scriptures say, "The one who rescues will come from Jerusalem, and he will turn Israel away from ungodliness.”

I'm studying this as I write, so any ideas would be helpful. Thanks!

And those of you who want to fight and nit-pick . . . please don't participate. You suck the joy right out of what we're trying to accomplish, here.

Both are true. But it is confusing until you define what the remnant is and what is engendered by all Israel.
This is no short explanation because it deals with eschatology, covenants, and redemption.

 

[2ndTimothyGroup]

Pray for discernment and you will gain more understanding. In time, the Spirit will complete what’s missing.

Yes, but not always. The Body of Christ is built upon Spiritual Warriors who possess certain gifts and knowledge, so that when combined with the Body of Christ, a whole Body will be more complete. People will become what the Lord has created them to become.

 

[2ndTimothyGroup]

I think it means all who WILL become Israel will be saved.
Gentile and Jew alike.
A lot of us Christians forget that we are in effect Jewish through being grafted in to THE Jewish Messiah.

Right, right. Gentiles, as the Bible reports, are of the same family, the family of Noah. In Abraham and Noah (there are likely more), we find that their offspring whom the Lord considers Gentiles, are sent away. And this is the Plan of God, that all would be brought back together again, now that the Law of Hostility that separated them has been long since removed.

Thanks for sharing, PE!

 

[2ndTimothyGroup]

Your not the only one that has struggled through Romans.

So far so good, as far as I can tell. This is the only issue I have yet to resolve.

Not many folk fully understand the letter to the Romans.

Agreed. I would add that maybe 5% of Christians actually do. Chapter 7 is the biggest hickup for most.

Cheers!

 

[Thunderrr-mental]

I'm sure it meant that some of the Israelites would be saved first before moving on to greener pastures 🙂

But I'm sure some of the hebrews where saved first when this was said