Is there a difference between the new and old covenant?

[Dino246]

This will probably be my last post for a while.

I never once said the Ten Commandments is “the only law of God”. Nor did I say Moses was without the Ten Commandments. They are separate and distinct laws that serves different purposes according to scriptures.

The Ten Commandments is a standalone unit and separate from the law of Moses. God of course gave the Ten Commandments to Moses and all of Israel but they did not start at Mt Sinai - they were already keeping God’s commandment prior to God writing them at Mt Sinai.

These is what consist of God’s covenant. He also calls the Ten Commandments “My commandments”. Exo 20:6 it is never referenced as the law of Moses.

Deut 4:13 So He (God) declared to you His covenant which He commanded you to perform, the Ten Commandments; and He wrote them on two tablets of stone.

Exo 34:28 So he was there with the Lord forty days and forty nights; he neither ate bread nor drank water. And He (God) wrote on the tablets the words of the covenant, the Ten Commandments.

Deut 5:22 “These words the Lord spoke to all your assembly, in the mountain from the midst of the fire, the cloud, and the thick darkness, with a loud voice; and He added no more. And He wrote them on two tablets of stone and gave them to me.

Only the Ten Commanemnts were personally written by God. Only the Ten Commandments was inside the ark of the convent Exo 40:20 all other laws were handwritten by Moses in a book placed on the outside of the ark Deut 31:26. They are two different laws that serves different purposes- scripture reveals this, sadly many aren’t interested. If we do not have a good understanding on these two sets of law, their purpose, it will make understanding the NT almost impossible as many times Paul just references “law” in his writings and the context and understating these district different laws will help us understand the meaning of his writing, which he never contradicts Jesus, so any teaching that say we do not have to keep God’s holy and eternal law, which is a contradiction of Jesus will only lead one down the wrong pat Mat 5:19-30 Mat 15:3-14

Anyway, there is no point in continuing, no one is reading, too may accusations, so I will leave it as agree to disagree and wish you all well in seeking Truth to God’s Word. Jesus is coming soon and I pray we are all ready. Take care all and God bless.

No one is reading... because you aren't writing anything worth reading. You have been asked repeatedly to defend your position from Scripture but all you can do is sidestep. Now you want to step out and play innocent. Whatever. Go your way... at least you won't be posting the latest news from Al-Judaizera.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

.

“Do we make void the law through grace? No we keep it. “

actually not really what it’s saying he’s talking about two laws the law of works and the law of faith

“Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works?

Nay: but by the law of faith.

Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

Is he the God of the Jews only? is he not also of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also: seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith.

Do we then make void the law through faith?

God forbid: yea, we establish the law.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭3:27-31‬ ‭

that’s not saying we keep the Old Testament law. It’s saying the law is actually the law of faith in Christ and the apostles were establishing the law of faith which is the gospel

this is our lawgiver

“For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.”
‭‭John‬ ‭3:17-18‬ ‭

and this is his law

“For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son: Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.”
‭‭John‬ ‭5:22, 24‬ ‭

It’s the law of faith spoken by the lord our lawgiver.

It’s Jesus words we need to look upon and keep in our hearts and keep and follow after not Moses words in the book of exodus or numbers or Deuteronomy or Leviticus that was the twelve tribes of Israel’s relationship with God based upon their flesh and blood being of Abraham and on the promise he made to him for those people his blood descendants the christen of Israel

thats a specific covenant those words have thier own mediator and own sacrifices own priests own promised land oen chosen and elect people

Christian’s law is the everlasting gospel that Jesus the son of God preached before he our high priest shed the blood of our sacrifice himself according to his words

“For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭10:4‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.”
‭‭John‬ ‭6:63‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭5:18‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law,

but under grace.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭6:14‬ ‭

“For the law was given by Moses,

but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.”
‭‭John‬ ‭1:17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“The law and the prophets were until John:

since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭16:16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God, and saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭1:14-15‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another,even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.

But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.

What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet. ( a commandment )

But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭7:4, 6-8‬

“Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised,( the required sign of the covenant law made with Israel ) Christ shall profit you nothing.

For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law.

Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith. For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭5:2-6‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Thou shalt not kill …thou shalt not lie …thou shalt not steal , thou shalt not bear false witness , thou shalt not commit adultery is what you tell these folk

“knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, for whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;”
‭‭1 Timothy‬ ‭1:9-10‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin. But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference: for all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭3:19-

The law

“For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them. But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith. And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭3:10-12‬ ‭KJV‬‬

The gospel the law of faith

“For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭1:16-17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

The law

“Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made;

and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator. Now a mediator is not a mediator of one, but God is one.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭3:19-20‬ ‭KJV‬‬

The law when god spoke the Ten Commandments from Sinai in exodus 19-20

“For ye are not come unto the mount that might be touched, and that burned with fire, nor unto blackness, and darkness, and tempest, and the sound of a trumpet, and the voice of words; which voice they that heard intreated that the word should not be spoken to them any more: (for they could not endure that which was commanded, And if so much as a beast touch the mountain, it shall be stoned, or thrust through with a dart: and so terrible was the sight, that Moses said, I exceedingly fear and quake”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭12:18-21‬ ‭KJV‬‬

The gospel

“but ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels, to the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,

and to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel. See that ye refuse not him that speaketh.

For if they escaped not who refused him that spake on earth,( from Sinai ) much more shall not we escape, if we turn away from him that speaketh from heaven:”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭12:22-25‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.”
‭‭John‬ ‭6:38‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“For he whom God hath sent speaketh the words of God: for God giveth not the Spirit by measure unto him. The Father loveth the Son, and hath given all things into his hand. He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.”
‭‭John‬ ‭3:34-36‬ ‭

there’s a little bit of evidence tbat we aren’t under the Old Testament law who are in Christ I mean it’s basically every other page or so in the New Testament

“Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:”
‭‭Jeremiah‬ ‭31:31-32‬

 

[Pilgrimshope]

I'm not going to defend statements that others have made when I disagree with the majority of their position.

I was just wondering why you think the law is separate from the Ten Commandments ?

 

[Pilgrimshope]

I'm not going to defend statements that others have made when I disagree with the majority of their position.

I’m asking because a lot of times you wrote things that make sense . I’m wondering if you have noticed something showing the Ten Commandments to be separate somehow his quotes are all out of context with the narratives and aren’t really ringing valid to my foolish ears

i notice sometimes you wrote something that makes it “click” for me was wondering if you had seen something

 

[TMS]

Do we make void the law through grace? No we keep it. “

actually not really what it’s saying he’s talking about two laws the law of works and the law of faith

“Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works?

Faith without works is dead.
But our works are as filthy rages.
? Our works = old covenant
The Spirit in us = New covenant

By the power of Jesus we can do all things. Can you keep the law with Jesus in you. Jesus perfectly obeied it in His life and can do the same for you.
But no glory to us... it is God working in us. Do you have faith in Jesus? Faith that believes Jesus can work in you and enable you to obey the law. It takes faith.

We are saved by the righteousness of Christ.
Faith in what Jesus did for us.
Our works (law keeping) does not make us worthy.

But .... do we continue to break the law.. do we pretend there is no law... do we openly sin because Jesus paid it all.

No
Jesus said " go and sin no more"

We don't keep the law to be saved but because we are saved. We keep it because we let Jesus live in us.

God's people act like Jesus. Not like the devil.

The fruits of the Spirit is shown in our actions.. love

1Jn 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.
1Jn 3:2-4
2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is. 3 And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure. 4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

 

[Dino246]

I was just wondering why you think the law is separate from the Ten Commandments ?

Specifically, because the finger of God inscribed them. Aside from that I consider them part of the Law.

 

[Godswilling]

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

When reading The Word of God in Old and New Testament, by using own understanding or Man's Intellect, there is a big difference.
Yes it is very clear in man's understanding that Jesus changed the commandments;
Here are some of them.
MATTHEW 5:21-2
21 “You have heard that it was said to those [a]of old, ‘You shall not murder, and whoever murders will be in danger of the judgment.’ 22 But I say to you that whoever is angry with his brother [b]without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment.

MATTHEW 5:27
27 “You have heard that it was said [f]to those of old, ‘You shall not commit adultery.’ 28 But I say to you that whoever looks at a woman to lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart.

MATTHEW 5:31
31 “Furthermore it has been said, ‘Whoever divorces his wife, let him give her a certificate of divorce.’ 32 But I say to you that whoever divorces his wife for any reason except [i]sexual immorality causes her to commit adultery; and whoever marries a woman who is divorced commits adultery.

MATTHEW 5:33
33 “Again you have heard that it was said to those of [j]old, ‘You shall not swear falsely, but shall perform your oaths to the Lord.’ 34 But I say to you, do not swear at all: neither by heaven, for it is God’s throne; 35 nor by the earth, for it is His footstool; nor by Jerusalem, for it is the city of the great King. 36 Nor shall you swear by your head, because you cannot make one hair white or black. 37 But let [k]your ‘Yes’ be ‘Yes,’ and your ‘No,’ ‘No.’ For whatever is more than these is from the evil one.

MATTHEW 5:38-39
38 “You have heard that it was said, ‘An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth.’ 39 But I tell you not to resist an evil person. But whoever slaps you on your right cheek, turn the other to him also

It is very clear that Jesus changed the commandments in the Old Testament and he gave a new commandments in The New Testament.
JOHN 13:34
34 A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another.

But this is the warning of The Lord:
By not using Man's Understanding is equivalent to Thrusting The Lord.
PROVERBS 3:5
5 Trust in the Lord with all your heart,
And lean not on your own understanding;

Because if we ask Jesus if he really changed The Commandments in The Old Testaments?
Jesus answer is he did not changed them and in fact he followed them.
MATTHEW 5:17
17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

The message of the Lord is very clear in Proverbs 3:5

Question: How to study The Word of God if Man's Understanding is not applicable;
Answer: Beg for Mercy of God because to understand The Words of God requires a Divine Revelation.[/QUOTE)
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Yes it requires A Divine Revelation to Know The Truth.
The Truth that The Old and New Testaments are just the same and there is no difference.

This is what Jesus demonstrate it.

Jesus is The Truth:
JOHN 14:6
6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

To Know Jesus requires A Divine Revelation from God The Father.
MATTHEW 15:15-17
15 He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am?
16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.
17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.

To Know Jesus and Jesus is The Truth (John 14:6)
Therefore: To Know The Truth it requires A Divine Revelation

A Demonstration by Jesus;
Who can explain this well?
Because there is no difference between The Old and New Testament, that is why Jesus saw in the New Testament on what happened in The Old Testament.
LUKE 17:26-27
26 And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man.
27 They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noah entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all.

.

 

[TMS]

Godswilling said:
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

When reading The Word of God in Old and New Testament, by using own understanding or Man's Intellect, there is a big difference.
Yes it is very clear in man's understanding that Jesus changed the commandments;
Here are some of them.
MATTHEW 5:21-2

You are quoting moral laws that have not been changed. Some of the civil and cerimonial laws did change but the moral laws have not.

Jesus helped people to understand the depth of the moral laws because many had lost sight of true love.

Mat 5:17-19
17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. 18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. 19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.


Jesus didn't come to change the 10 commandments. Jesus gave the law and it was perfect.

 

[Dino246]

Jesus didn't come to change the 10 commandments. Jesus gave the law and it was perfect.

However, it was and is powerless to make us holy. Adherence to the law does nothing to make us righteous in God’s sight. As Paul asked the Galatians, having begun your sanctification in the Spirit, why would you attempt to complete it in the flesh?

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Specifically, because the finger of God inscribed them. Aside from that I consider them part of the Law.

I see what you mean your making a distinction because gods finger wrote the commandments , from God commanding Moses I understand what your position is now thank you

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Faith without works is dead.
But our works are as filthy rages.
? Our works = old covenant
The Spirit in us = New covenant

By the power of Jesus we can do all things. Can you keep the law with Jesus in you. Jesus perfectly obeied it in His life and can do the same for you.
But no glory to us... it is God working in us. Do you have faith in Jesus? Faith that believes Jesus can work in you and enable you to obey the law. It takes faith.

We are saved by the righteousness of Christ.
Faith in what Jesus did for us.
Our works (law keeping) does not make us worthy.

But .... do we continue to break the law.. do we pretend there is no law... do we openly sin because Jesus paid it all.

No
Jesus said " go and sin no more"

We don't keep the law to be saved but because we are saved. We keep it because we let Jesus live in us.

God's people act like Jesus. Not like the devil.

The fruits of the Spirit is shown in our actions.. love

1Jn 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.
1Jn 3:2-4
2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is. 3 And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure. 4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

Yeah but go back and read those scriptures I shared with you and compare your conclusions

God promised in the prophets to make a new covenant that would not be according to the covenant he made with Israel through the commandments .

He promised when he came a law would proceed from him he never was saying I’m going to come and make you obey Moses ….or some rocks

think it through if you didn’t know God and we’rent allowed to hear his word and speak with him if you were told “ if anyone comes near to look at me or hear me they must surely be shot through and out to death “

then you need rocks with paws engraved on them it’s the closest your allowed to get to God those rocks are the thing he’s given you to base your entire relationship with him upon but you ever actually meet him all you see is darkness fire all you hear is thunder and trumpets so loud they terrify everyone even Moses suppose you pick up w stick on a sabbath suddenly your community is dragging you surrounding you and stoning you to death

then imagine a different scenario all together . Your fishing in a village and a man approaches and calls your name and said with open arms “come unto me and I will give you rest follow me come as close as possible and hesr ny words and you will live forever “

Why would we have access to Jesus and his words teachkngs and everything his wisdom of God and then all the sudden we need to go back to the rocks to please him ?

Its like of someone gave you a book but you can’t read very well

as d the difference in the man that wrote the book coming to you with patience and grace teaching and protecting you as you learn picking you up when you fall never commanding everyone to stone you to death or burn you with fire

aid we know Jesus there’s absolutely no reason to try to follow anyone or anything else he’s the way truth and life our lord to hear the gospel is to stand within the cloud where Moses went but no one heard or saw

We have a living God we do t need missing rocks for the last 2600 years that’s what we would need before Christ came preaching the gospel and giving his spirit

 

[Dino246]

Faith without works is dead.
But our works are as filthy rages.
? Our works = old covenant
The Spirit in us = New covenant

By the power of Jesus we can do all things. Can you keep the law with Jesus in you. Jesus perfectly obeied it in His life and can do the same for you.

Jesus did perfectly keep the Law. However, what Jesus does in and through us is prevent sin, not "keep the Law". Keeping the Law means obeying every last ordinance, including animal sacrifices. Since we don't offer animal sacrifices, we don't keep the Law. You can pretend you're keeping the Law as a Christian, but you would be deluded.

We don't get to redefine the Law's requirements because Jesus is in us; the Law remains as it was. Jesus fulfilled it, leaving nothing for us to do in reference to it. Our relationship with God is not on the basis of keeping the Law, but on faith in Jesus' shed blood and resurrection.

 

[Aaron56]

Our relationship with God is not on the basis of keeping the Law, but on faith in Jesus' shed blood and resurrection.

Perfect point!

When we stand before God and are asked "By what right do you seek entrance into my presence?" there is only one answer: "By the shed blood of my Lord Jesus Christ!"

 

[obertarti]

Hi everyone,

Other then the old is old and new is new, what are the differences of the old and new covenant ( Moses ) , I am asking because I do not see any difference, both are about keeping the law?

Also please use scripture.

Thank you and have a good Easter.

New covenant is by Spirit not by Flesh

All commandments of old one to fulfill by flesh

New covenant by spirit

 

[vassal]

New covenant is by Spirit not by Flesh

All commandments of old one to fulfill by flesh

New covenant by spirit

thank you, i am still researching the covenants i should post something new ( probably a new thread ) within a few weeks.

cheers

 

[Luke233]

Old = Law
New = Grace

 

[vassal]

Old = Law
New = Grace

I do not think it is this simple

 

[obertarti]

I do not think it is this simple

It is simple

By law death for everybody not fulfilling the law from birth

By grace forgiveness from death

No death for deadly sin

But on conditions of faith acting by love

Grace appeared by blood of Christ -price for receiving of the Holy Spirit of Grace

No grace without receiving spirit of grace

It is not simple to obtain grace by faith

Faith should be accepted by God -counted into the right one -righteous

 

[vassal]

It is simple

By law death for everybody not fulfilling the law from birth

By grace forgiveness from death

No death for deadly sin

But on conditions of faith acting by love

Grace appeared by blood of Christ -price for receiving of the Holy Spirit of Grace

No grace without receiving spirit of grace

It is not simple to obtain grace by faith

Faith should be accepted by God -counted into the right one -righteous

Not so simple still, i will explain, when i am ready.

A question until then if you kill someone as a christian having receiving the Holy Spirit and knowing perfectly well you are breaking God's law are you still saved? What does Jesus say about such things? Do you know?

 

[obertarti]

Not so simple still, i will explain, when i am ready.

A question until then if you kill someone as a christian having receiving the Holy Spirit and knowing perfectly well you are breaking God's law are you still saved? What does Jesus say about such things? Do you know?

King James Bible
If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it


The flooding was example

And it is about classification of sins.

The law and sacrifices classify them

---
New International Version
If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left