Did Jesus Die on The Cross for The Just/Elect/Saved Whose Names Are Written in The Book of Life OR

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Rufus

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selahsays said:
Look here in the prophetic book of Jeremiah: Here we see the Elect being complimented by God.

Everyone is dull-hearted, without knowledge; Every metalsmith is put to shame by the carved image; For his molded image is falsehood, And there is no breath in them. They are futile, a work of errors; In the time of their punishment they shall perish. The Portion of Jacob is not like them, For He is the Maker of all things; And Israel is the tribe of His inheritance. The LORD of hosts is His name. "You are My battle-ax and weapons of war: For with you I will break the nation in pieces; With you I will destroy kingdoms; With you I will break in pieces the horse and its rider; With you I will break in pieces the chariot and its rider; With you also I will break in pieces man and woman; With you I will break in pieces old and young; With you I will break in pieces the young man and the maiden; With you also I will break in pieces the shepherd and his flock; With you I will break in pieces the farmer and his yoke of oxen; And with you I will break in pieces governors and rulers. "And I will repay Babylon And all the inhabitants of Chaldea For all the evil they have done In Zion in your sight," says the LORD.

- Jeremiah 51:17-24
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Great passage! Up until about 3 years ago, I was a Preterist pretty much sold on Amillennialism. Now, I'm a Preterist leaning toward Postmillennialism due to passages like this and others. I love v. 19 the part that says "and Israel is the tribe of his inheritance". And who is the "Israel of God" (Gal 6:16) today in this New Covenant economy? It's Christ's Church that consists of Jews and Gentiles.

And here's another incredible passage that speaks to the victors and the vanquished:

Isa 66:22-24
22 "As the new heavens and the new earth that I make will endure before me," declares the LORD, "so will your name and descendants endure. 23 From one New Moon to another and from one Sabbath to another, all mankind will come and bow down before me," says the LORD. 24 "And they will go out and look upon the dead bodies of those who rebelled against me; their worm will not die, nor will their fire be quenched, and they will be loathsome to all mankind."
NIV

Did not Jesus teach that the gates of hell shall not prevail against his [militant] Church (Mat 16:18)!?
 
R

Rufus

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selahsays said:
Look here in 2 Timothy: Can you see the Elect in this passage?

Therefore I remind you to stir up the gift of God which is in you through the laying on of my hands. For God has not given us a spirit of fear, but of power and of love and of a sound mind. Therefore do not be ashamed of the testimony of our Lord, nor of me His prisoner, but share with me in the sufferings for the gospel according to the power of God, who has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace which was given to us in Christ Jesus before time began, but has now been revealed by the appearing of our Savior Jesus Christ, who has abolished death and brought life and immortality to light through the gospel, to which I was appointed a preacher, an apostle, and a teacher of the Gentiles. For this reason I also suffer these things; nevertheless I am not ashamed, for I know whom I have believed and am persuaded that He is able to keep what I have committed to Him until that Day.

- 2 Timothy 1:6-12
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Indeed! God gave his chosen people grace [in Christ] before time began!
 
selahsays

selahsays

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Rufus said:
Great passage! Up until about 3 years ago, I was a Preterist pretty much sold on Amillennialism. Now, I'm a Preterist leaning toward Postmillennialism due to passages like this and others. I love v. 19 the part that says "and Israel is the tribe of his inheritance". And who is the "Israel of God" (Gal 6:16) today in this New Covenant economy? It's Christ's Church that consists of Jews and Gentiles.

And here's another incredible passage that speaks to the victors and the vanquished:

Isa 66:22-24
22 "As the new heavens and the new earth that I make will endure before me," declares the LORD, "so will your name and descendants endure. 23 From one New Moon to another and from one Sabbath to another, all mankind will come and bow down before me," says the LORD. 24 "And they will go out and look upon the dead bodies of those who rebelled against me; their worm will not die, nor will their fire be quenched, and they will be loathsome to all mankind."
NIV

Did not Jesus teach that the gates of hell shall not prevail against his [militant] Church (Mat 16:18)!?
Click to expand...
The Rock is Jesus Christ, the foundation that the church is built on, and even the gates of Hell (Satan) cannot prevail against Him.
 
FollowerofShiloh

FollowerofShiloh

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Rufus said:
No there won't. Not possible! See Mat 24:24; Mk 13:22; Phil 1:6, Jude 24, etc.

Was a God a murderer when he ordered Israel to drive out his enemies, the non-elect nations from the land he promised to Abraham?
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Those are the words of King Jesus, sitting at the Right hand of God, 30 years after Paul is dead to John.
So I trust the Risen Glorified Jesus over your understanding.
 
FollowerofShiloh

FollowerofShiloh

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selahsays said:
Then you must not really understand very well the election, and especially how they will be used by God in these latter days..…”if possible” means they won’t be deceived. Some of the elect will actually be delivered up to Satan’s courts to testify. But guess what? It will be the Holy Spirit who will be speaking through them.

"But when they arrest you and deliver you up, do not worry beforehand, or premeditate what you will speak. But whatever is given you in that hour, speak that; for it is not you who speak, but the Holy Spirit.

- Mark 13:11
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Those are the words of King Jesus, sitting at the Right hand of God, 30 years after Paul is dead to John.
So I trust the Risen Glorified Jesus over your understanding.
 
L

LeeLoving

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Rufus said:
That is wise, otherwise you would be reading into the passage what is not there.

The personal pronoun "whom" actually says it all. God [fore]knew people in eternity. That is to say, that He had intimate, personal, loving, familial kind of knowledge of them. (And this stands in sharp contrast to what Jesus said about the non-elect in Mat 7:21-23.) Yet, many Christians interpret the passage to mean God gazed through his cosmic crystal ball, as it were, and foresaw their faith and repentance, and so based on this knowledge he predestined them to be saved. God's choice of them was contingent on their prior choice of Him. But this is a totally unbiblical view, for it reduces our salvation to a quid pro quo arrangement between God and us, instead of what it really is: a unilateral, supernatural act of God.
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Ok, 1 Corinthians 1:27 (KJV) says, "But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty;" and elsewhere in the New Testament it says that the elect were chosen according to the foreknowledge of God, so I think it would be reasonable to think that people were chosen because of their lowly position and not because God has any sort of special love for them, though what he did for them specifically would be a very loving thing to do (saving them from the consequences of their sins, which would be an eternity in the lake of fire, by sending his Son to die for their sins (and everybody's) and then drawing those people to His Son).
 
selahsays

selahsays

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FollowerofShiloh said:
Those are the words of King Jesus, sitting at the Right hand of God, 30 years after Paul is dead to John.
So I trust the Risen Glorified Jesus over your understanding.
Click to expand...
@FollowerofShiloh, Mark 13:11 is prophecy concerning the latter days. Notice that Jesus, in this passage, is describing the 7 seals, also found in the book of Revelation. Matthew 24, Mark 13 and Luke 21 are what’s referred to as the Olivet Prophecy.
 
FollowerofShiloh

FollowerofShiloh

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selahsays said:
@FollowerofShiloh, Mark 13:11 is prophecy concerning the latter days. Notice that Jesus, in this passage, is describing the 7 seals, also found in the book of Revelation. Matthew 24, Mark 13 and Luke 21 are what’s referred to as the Olivet Prophecy.
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I am using Scripture from those Books and Chapters you have mentioned.
Jesus said it's possible for the Elect to deceived.
Now either Jesus is God and true or He is a liar.
I believe He is God and true.
 
selahsays

selahsays

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FollowerofShiloh said:
I am using Scripture from those Books and Chapters you have mentioned.
Jesus said it's possible for the Elect to deceived.
Now either Jesus is God and true or He is a liar.
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Please quote scripture that says, “Jesus said it's possible for the Elect to [be] deceived.”
 
FollowerofShiloh

FollowerofShiloh

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selahsays said:
Please quote scripture that says, “Jesus said it's possible for the Elect to [be] deceived.”
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I already did but here it is again.
24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect. .
 
FollowerofShiloh

FollowerofShiloh

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I look at it this way.
People who are on this site daily are always reading scripture, talking about God, involved in learning and being taught by Godly influence. We are looking for what can trip us up [some are and some just assume they can sin and sin and sin and still be saved](they have already deceived themselves).

If a so-called Christian thinks he can sin and sin and sin and is good with God, he is capable of believing any form of lie.
 
selahsays

selahsays

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FollowerofShiloh said:
I already did but here it is again.
24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect. .
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So how come you didn’t bold the words ”if it were possible”?
 
selahsays

selahsays

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FollowerofShiloh said:
I look at it this way.
People who are on this site daily are always reading scripture, talking about God, involved in learning and being taught by Godly influence. We are looking for what can trip us up [some are and some just assume they can sin and sin and sin and still be saved](they have already deceived themselves).

If a so-called Christian thinks he can sin and sin and sin and is good with God, he is capable of believing any form of lie.
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…but a so-called Christian that thinks he can sin and sin and sin and is good with God is not one of the very elect.
 
FollowerofShiloh

FollowerofShiloh

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selahsays said:
So how come you didn’t bold the words ”if it were possible”?
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I would think anyone who has knowledge of the New Testament understands the Greek language structure.
Conjunctions followed by adjectives emphasize to modify a truth.
 
FollowerofShiloh

FollowerofShiloh

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selahsays said:
…but a so-called Christian that thinks he can sin and sin and sin and is good with God is not one of the very elect.
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Your Reformed buddies that you listen to as Gospel on these forums believe this and you believe them. It's part of TULIP.
 
Cameron143

Cameron143

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FollowerofShiloh said:
I look at it this way.
People who are on this site daily are always reading scripture, talking about God, involved in learning and being taught by Godly influence. We are looking for what can trip us up [some are and some just assume they can sin and sin and sin and still be saved](they have already deceived themselves).

If a so-called Christian thinks he can sin and sin and sin and is good with God, he is capable of believing any form of lie.
Click to expand...
Every person on this site continues to sin and sin. The problem arises when they don't confess and confess.
 
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