Did Jesus Die on The Cross for The Just/Elect/Saved Whose Names Are Written in The Book of Life OR
- Thread starter MerSee
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So, a loving Father just let's his children that he loves soooo much to run free, wild and crazy? Is that how you brought up your kids -- just let them choose to say and do whatever they like?
Natural Revelation when God has purposed it to be known draws people. Sadly, the people in verse 19 rejected that drawing.
A Sovereign God needs NO ONE. So everyone runs wild and free unless they heed the Calling of God. Once God begins a "work" in them they begin to change.
When you quote make sure you have sufficient context attached. Otherwise people miss the argument that
Paul is addressing.
Here is the next line of the quotation.
Romans 9
11 for though the twins were not yet born and had not done anything good or bad, so that God’s purpose according to His choice would stand, not because of works but because of Him who calls, 12 it was said to her, “The older will serve the younger.”
Not because of works but because of faith (Him who calls).
Paul is not talking about sovereign election in Romans 9. Paul is talking about why Israel failed and why the
Gentiles were elect.
You need to read further in Romans nine to understand this subject, that Paul is declaring to the Romans.
30 What shall we say then? That Gentiles, who did not pursue righteousness, attained righteousness, but the righteousness that is by faith; 31 however, Israel, pursuing a law of righteousness, did not arrive at that law.
When you start discussing say the topic of individual election, then you have wandered from the text.
Jews and Gentiles!
This is how A. W. Pink interprets God's foreknowledge, and I agree with him.
Foreknowledge of God (in election)
Arthur W. Pink (1886-1952)
According to A. W. Pink, many in the church are ignorant of the Scriptural meaning of foreknowledge. Because of this ignorance, it is easy for unlearned teachers to spread erroneous doctrine. The most common error is the following: in opposition to the clear teaching of Scripture that God sovereignly chose certain people for salvation, these teachers argue that God, in His “foreknowledge,” looked into the future and saw that certain people would believe—and so predestined them to salvation. This turns Scripture on its head, making man the final arbiter of his salvation rather than God. In repudiating this error, Pink explains the true meaning of foreknowledge as taught in Scripture, showing that it is “never used in connection with events or actions, but always refers to persons.” It is individual people that God is said to foreknow, not the actions of those people.
Foreknowledge of God (in election)
Arthur W. Pink (1886-1952)According to A. W. Pink, many in the church are ignorant of the Scriptural meaning of foreknowledge. Because of this ignorance, it is easy for unlearned teachers to spread erroneous doctrine. The most common error is the following: in opposition to the clear teaching of Scripture that God sovereignly chose certain people for salvation, these teachers argue that God, in His “foreknowledge,” looked into the future and saw that certain people would believe—and so predestined them to salvation. This turns Scripture on its head, making man the final arbiter of his salvation rather than God. In repudiating this error, Pink explains the true meaning of foreknowledge as taught in Scripture, showing that it is “never used in connection with events or actions, but always refers to persons.” It is individual people that God is said to foreknow, not the actions of those people.
Sorry, I really couldn't tell! "This earth age" kinda threw me. What else do we know at this point? Is something going to change later whereby people love God first? Questions like that sprang to my mind. Haha.
Oh dear…I somehow missed this post.
Consider that eternity has no beginning or end.
For this they willfully forget: that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of water and in the water, by which the world that then existed perished, being flooded with water. But the heavens and the earth which are now preserved by the same word, are reserved for fire until the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.
….Nevertheless we, according to His promise, look for new heavens and a new earth in which righteousness dwells.
- 2 Peter 3:5-7,13
You're answering my question with a question? Okay...what is your understanding of Rom 8:29-30? What is God "foreknowing" in this passage?
This is how A. W. Pink interprets God's foreknowledge, and I agree with him.
Foreknowledge of God (in election)
According to A. W. Pink, many in the church are ignorant of the Scriptural meaning of foreknowledge. Because of this ignorance, it is easy for unlearned teachers to spread erroneous doctrine. The most common error is the following: in opposition to the clear teaching of Scripture that God sovereignly chose certain people for salvation, these teachers argue that God, in His “foreknowledge,” looked into the future and saw that certain people would believe—and so predestined them to salvation. This turns Scripture on its head, making man the final arbiter of his salvation rather than God. In repudiating this error, Pink explains the true meaning of foreknowledge as taught in Scripture, showing that it is “never used in connection with events or actions, but always refers to persons.” It is individual people that God is said to foreknow, not the actions of those people.
Sister, you continue to impress me! You rock, girl!
Yes, that is what untrained, undisciplined, foolish children do -- "run wild". So, are you suggesting that their earthly fathers should let them act out the foolish desires of their hearts in the name of the sanctity of their "free will"?
Another of your infamous non sequiturs. Did I say God needed anything or anyone?
Now try answering the question: Would a loving father allow his children to run wild and crazy and act out the foolish desires of their heart, or would he reign them in and discipline them? How did you raise your kids, assuming you have any? If not, how were you raised: Did your parents allow you to do anything your little heart desired?
Real love isn't forced or "automatic".
You're married, right? Would you have preferred your wife to have loved you by force or by her own free will? You'd want her to love you by her free will, right? So why would it be different for God? He is after all the one who instituted marriage.
And where does it say loving your children means that you let them run free, wild and crazy? A good loving Father, would teach them and help them to mature in wisdom. That's what God has always demonstrated in the Bible. Look at Jesus who is the Father's Son. The Father loves His Son. Is Jesus running free, wild and crazy?
This is true indeed but I was caught up in keeping to the topic I was discussing. Great Job pointing that out
Yep, I have used A.W. Pink myself because many Reformed use him not realizing he isn't Reformed at allThis is how A. W. Pink interprets God's foreknowledge, and I agree with him.
Foreknowledge of God (in election)
According to A. W. Pink, many in the church are ignorant of the Scriptural meaning of foreknowledge. Because of this ignorance, it is easy for unlearned teachers to spread erroneous doctrine. The most common error is the following: in opposition to the clear teaching of Scripture that God sovereignly chose certain people for salvation, these teachers argue that God, in His “foreknowledge,” looked into the future and saw that certain people would believe—and so predestined them to salvation. This turns Scripture on its head, making man the final arbiter of his salvation rather than God. In repudiating this error, Pink explains the true meaning of foreknowledge as taught in Scripture, showing that it is “never used in connection with events or actions, but always refers to persons.” It is individual people that God is said to foreknow, not the actions of those people.
He preached this to the SAVED!
Reformed think OSAS even without seeking forgiveness of new sins
Pink has always been among my favorite writers. He has a good understanding and is easy to read. Perhaps his writing skills came from his earlier publication of Studies in the Scripture.This is how A. W. Pink interprets God's foreknowledge, and I agree with him.
Foreknowledge of God (in election)
According to A. W. Pink, many in the church are ignorant of the Scriptural meaning of foreknowledge. Because of this ignorance, it is easy for unlearned teachers to spread erroneous doctrine. The most common error is the following: in opposition to the clear teaching of Scripture that God sovereignly chose certain people for salvation, these teachers argue that God, in His “foreknowledge,” looked into the future and saw that certain people would believe—and so predestined them to salvation. This turns Scripture on its head, making man the final arbiter of his salvation rather than God. In repudiating this error, Pink explains the true meaning of foreknowledge as taught in Scripture, showing that it is “never used in connection with events or actions, but always refers to persons.” It is individual people that God is said to foreknow, not the actions of those people.
I grew up in a lineage of Rabbis who then my Grandfather became a Born Again Evangelist. And even though we had structure, we still let our children have freedom to make many choices without interfering. We did not allow anything in the homes but we did not monitor them like many Christians do whose children REBEL when they are old enough to leave the home. All of us got see some things weren't as cool as people led on and when we left the home we stayed in Church.Another of your infamous non sequiturs. Did I say God needed anything or anyone?