Predestination is misunderstood...

[Charlie_2024]

It is undoubtedly a different gospel from what you are peddling. We have to cooperate with God's work of justification, and sanctification to be presented body. soul and spirit blameless at His coming.
"It" is a pronoun. It stands in for a noun. Contextually, which noun is "it" referring to?

Your gospel makes no sense to me, so there's no use in asking me to figure out how you assembled this strange context

 

[PaulThomson]

Is it possible that "continue to be saved" can be rephrased as "kept safe", that is, kept saved?

I don't understand the question, Mem, sorry.

 

[PaulThomson]

So, in your estimation. We can take or leave elements of what Christ is offering us, just like a smorgasbord. That flies in the face of scriptures like "Ye shall live by every Word that proceeds from My mouth". You say, no Lord I will choose to obey only those things which I deem to be acceptable And I will reject the rest

Do you avail yourself of every blessing available to God's children all the time?

 

[Mem]

I don't understand the question, Mem, sorry.

For by means of grace you were saved and are continuing to be saved through faith, and that is the gift of God not [originating] from you.

The present perfect passive participle indicates that you were saved in the past by faith and are continuing to be saved in the present by faith. This implies that we must be believing in the past to be saved in the past, and we must be believing in the present to continue to be saved in the present.

I am seeing that "continuing to be saved" might be summarized as "kept safe", that is keep on being saved. That is, you were saved by faith and are kept safe by faith, as in no longer in danger as you were before you were saved. Kept by faith as a guardian would keep his ward. Wouldn't a saving faith be a competent guardian, like Jason Statham as the transporter?

 

[Charlie_2024]

Isn't predestination an oxymoron at best? This term implies OSAS, and so does Perserverance of the saints. It almost seems that there is a conspiracy to point out the faults of Wesley to defend Calvin's arrogance.

Most hate Calvinism because they don't know anything about it, as you have just demonstrated. There are many different interpretations of the gospel in the Church, each denomination contradicts the other while everyone claims theirs is the only true Biblical gospel.

Can you see how pathetic this situation is and why the world looks at the Church as a bunch of deluded nut jobs. It's nearly impossible to get anyone outside the Church to even consider the possibility that there may be some truth to the gospel.

All of my highly educated friends mock the Church, because all they see are hypocrites bickering and back stabbing each other. That truth slams the door shout on any possibility of trying to attract intelligent people into the Church. I don't blame them and I agree the Church is a basket case in our days.

The damning factor for the Church is, we rejected the last commandment which the Lord left us whit before He ascended to heaven. He said, the world will recognize us because of the love we have for one another. Now the opposite is true, they can easily identify the Church for the hatred in it.

It's really quite a sad and shameful state of affairs.

 

[Charlie_2024]

Do you avail yourself of every blessing available to God's children all the time?

Absolutely, I'm not waiting to become a Saint to inherit all the riches of the universe. They are mine now, I already have salvation and eternal life. That's what God promised to His elect before He made the world

 

[sawdust]

If you finally submit to salvation belonging to God and not the choice of men then I thank God for answered prayer!

I haven't finally submitted, I have always believed so and have been saying so from the outset.

You are a very strange person.

but have a nice day anyway.

 

[sawdust]

No, it isn't. Prayer solves nothing when you are not thinking.

True. Prayer is not a problem solving device, it is a vehicle for service. The service of thanksgiving and honour to God and intercession for others.

 

[sawdust]

Jesus set them on their workaholic fannies and told them that God must do a work before they could get saved.

I will have to report this as it is sexist. In Australia men don't have "fannies" (leastwise not the real ones) only women do so you have discriminated against us "fairer sex". Humph!.

ps. just joking with ya.

 

[PaulThomson]

So, in your estimation. We can take or leave elements of what Christ is offering us, just like a smorgasbord. That flies in the face of scriptures like "Ye shall live by every Word that proceeds from My mouth". You say, no Lord I will choose to obey only those things which I deem to be acceptable And I will reject the rest

Do you walk in divine health every day since by his stripes you were healed. Do you cast out every devil that crosses your path, since he commanded the apostles to teach new disciples to do that?? Do you give of your money to every need that comes your way out of His abundance? Do you love your enemies and lay down your life for them unconcerned about death? Do you forgive every offense against you?

 

[brightfame52]

You haven't acknowledge one single thing I've asked you about Christ not one.



Those who who not acknowledged the lord before people the lord will not acknowledge them before the father.




.

They dont believe because Christ didnt die for them as He did His Sheep Jn 10:26

26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.

Believing in Christ comes with the fact He died for you. So if one never believes, its because He never died for them taking away their sins. See His Death takes away sin and its awful consequences 1 Jn 3:5

And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin. Unbelief is the consequences of sin

 

[brightfame52]

Are you even "AWARE" that Jesus is talking to the Jews here?

Who Paul said are under this condition:
“God gave them a spirit of stupor,
eyes that would not see
and ears that would not hear,
down to this very day.”

They can't believe because God placed a condition on them. It has NOTHING to do with anything you said at all!!

You can't fool no one. He died for them but they are under a condition and cannot believe yet.

They dont believe because Christ didnt die for them as He did His Sheep Jn 10:26

26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.

Believing in Christ comes with the fact He died for you. So if one never believes, its because He never died for them taking away their sins. See His Death takes away sin and its awful consequences 1 Jn 3:5

And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin. Unbelief is the consequences of sin

 

[Thunderrr-mental]

They dont believe because Christ didnt die for them as He did His Sheep Jn 10:26

26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.

Believing in Christ comes with the fact He died for you. So if one never believes, its because He never died for them taking away their sins. See His Death takes away sin and its awful consequences 1 Jn 3:5

And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin. Unbelief is the consequences of sin

why is that you want people to argue against this scripture,

You've repeated it over 50 times now.

You obviously enjoy inviting people into a trap.

I wonder if you see what your doing or know what your doing, or whether or not your just another person who's infected by this tulip doctrines which is of the devil.

As it gives license for people to behave like the devil.

 

[Thunderrr-mental]

Why calvinism is wrong

Well firstly it promotes fatalism

But anyhow I posted this in another thread that after 15 pages I haven't been able to raise this point in the thread death curses the law . But here it is.

But here is another reason why calvinism is wrong.

Which for now I'll leave it to someone else to say why calvinism is wrong after reading this

Hi friends it will hopefully sink in soon 😊

But here's the reason

Right up to the ending of genesis 3

God had created man not outside of time.

In other words he chose not to know what man would do next before they did something which can be shown in many ways in genesis 3 also.

Well it proves calvinism wrong

but here the other thing God first created man with no suitable helper

After he saw the animals where not suitable helpers for Adam he then made it a law that man should not live alone without a suitable helper ❤️


because man was first created not outside of time, God never knew man would not find the animals suitable helpers, so he the made it law that man shall not live alone.

This is why he hates divorce to

But after Genesis 3 God put man outside of times so he could know what you where going to do before you do it to help you in a fallen state.



One scripture says, when you pray God's knows what you need before you ask him.

Well he never knew that up until after genesis 3 when he booted you out of the garden of eden


Adam and eve someone you loved 😊

 

[Eli1]

Yes it helps, but only if you can also understand the style of expression/use of idioms within that culture.

In my first language there is a lot of intensity and hyperbole, I think this can be a challenge to understand for those who have been raised speaking only English.

Translate ‘in bocca al lupo’ word for word in English.

 

[HeIsHere]

Translate ‘in bocca al lupo’ word for word in English.

Is this a trick question?

"in the mouth of the wolf'

 

[Eli1]

Is this a trick question?

"in the mouth of the wolf'

Nice.
I was just looking for an illustration of the idioms that’s all, and I’ve always liked this one.

- Hey guys, I’m getting the driver license test tomorrow.
- Okay friend, go into the mouth of the wolf.

 

[HeIsHere]

Nice.
I was just looking for an illustration of the idioms that’s all, and I’ve always liked this one.

- Hey guys, I’m getting the driver license test tomorrow.
- Okay friend, go into the mouth of the wolf.

It was not used by family that I can remember, but it is a very good illustration of the point.

See how we can easily make a mess of doctrine when language is not understood in its greater context.

If this was in scripture Christians might think this idiom means "go kill yourself" or something.

 

[HeIsHere]

tEi gar kariti (For by the grace) este (you are, pl. ) sesOsmenoi (having been saved: perfect passive participle) dia tEs piseOs (through the faith) kai touto (and that) ouk (not) ex humOn (out of you) theou (of God) to dOron (the gift).

For by means of grace you were saved by faith and are continuing to be saved through faith, and that is the gift of God not [originating] from you.

The present perfect passive participle indicates that you were saved in the past by faith and are continuing to be saved in the present by faith. This implies that we must be believing in the past to be saved in the past, and we must be believing in the present to continue to be saved in the present.

As an example, part way through fighting a forest fire the firemen are told, "You have been protected from the fire by your fire-proof suits, and you didn't provide them yourselves, they were provided to you by the fire department."

Is their "having been protected by the fire-proof suits" transitory, or permanent? Clearly having been protected up to now depended on wearing the suits. And continuing to be in that protected state depends on continuing to wear the suits. And taking off the suit means one will lose their protection from the fire.

I think it is the one act of faith in the past saves us in the future, not that we need to continually have faith to stay saved.

It is the object of our faith (Christ Jesus) that saves not our faith, faith is the vehicle.

 

[Dino246]

OK, now you've come out in support of John Calvin.

You're the second person to accuse me of that lately. Neither of you knows enough about me to draw that conclusion.

I must judge everyone according to their fruit in order to obey God

"Must" is the wrong word here. You choose to judge everyone. Scripture, rightly understood, means that IF you judge someone, judge by their fruit.

I must judge everyone through the lens of the gospel, and expose false teachers so new converts can take advantage of my wisdom, and not fall for the schemes of the enemy.

Ah... here we get to the crux of the matter. You would benefit new believers more by sharing God's wisdom than your own. You would benefit them far more by exhibiting the love and grace of Jesus Christ and leave the judgement up to Him.