Scripture Based Flat Earth Proposition

[Romans34]

You know, your other doctrines about Christianity are false too. So no surprised you fall for the flat earth conspiracy as well. You're so thick faced about them. I wonder if you actually believe in God. Because no one who believes in God would keep deceiving themselves and others about His works so boldly and not know the consequences of that. I'll see you too when we account ourselves to God.

The only thing good about all this is you expose yourselves as false teachers.

I'd appreciate it if you wouldn't post such that it appears as if I was the one that stated "Posting a lot of BS", because I wouldn't make such a post and it is deceptive. As for the rest of your remarks, we shall find out indeed who knew the truth when we give an account of ourselves to God. We shall indeed!

 

[Sculpt]

What is the likelihood that God would create one system and then change it to another system before creation week had ended? Why not just create the [final] one first/only and let it operate...?

What I wrote doesn't read there was one system and then it was changed to another system. It reads (or suggests, depending how you interpret it) that during the 6 days of creation, it hadn't rained until day 6. That's all. When you're assembling one whole interdependent system in steps (i.e. the universe), it would be very odd to note the creator "changed the system" before it's even completed.

God had just completed separating the day from the night at the end of day 4, notably the sun. It's a time-consuming process for water to evaporate, rise some 3+ miles into the atmosphere, and then only when certain conditions are met does it rain. One might assume at one point during creation, the sky had zero moisture. I imagine it would take some time to fill up. So, some suggest Genesis 2 reads it first rained on day 6. Not sure why one would think that suggests God decided to "change to another system".

You might find this interesting... When I was looking at some commentaries on the rainbow account, I came across one that asserts Gen 2:5 means it rained:

Keil and Delitzsch Biblical Commentary on the Old Testament
The establishment of the rainbow as a covenant sign of the promise that there should be no flood again, presupposes that it appeared then for the first time in the vault and clouds of heaven. From this it may be inferred, not that it did not rain before the flood, which could hardly be reconciled with Genesis 2:5

But of course, as we've said, there's many things like rain where scripture isn't detailed on issues, or may have different interpretations, sometimes a mass of scholars split down the middle. God has it figured out. All glory to God.

 

[Romans34]

You know, your other doctrines about Christianity are false too. So no surprised you fall for the flat earth conspiracy as well. You're so thick faced about them. I wonder if you actually believe in God.
. . .
The only thing good about all this is you expose yourselves as false teachers.

Might I ask what "other doctrines about Christianity" that you feel are false? Especially the one(s) that give you the impression that I don't believe in God? More especially that you feel identifies me as a false teacher?

 

[Sculpt]

No. I'm not saying the window is the second heaven. The second heaven is part of the firmament through which the water fell. That is, it fell past sun, moon, and stars through the atmosphere to the earth. If your material is truly brief, I'd be glad to look it when I have time. I'd appreciate it if you'll not waste my time.

I think I just said what you said... Water from 'the waters above the firmament' passed through the open windows of heaven -- ('windows of heaven' being the firmament: 2nd & 1st heaven, area of sun, moon, stars, sky) -- onto the surface of the earth.

As in, you can't pass through a closed window, you must pass through an open window.

If you're saying the windows of heaven is the NOT the firmament (2nd & 1st heaven, area of sun, moon, stars, sky), then what are you saying is the "windows of heaven" that were opened? If you were filling in the blank, the Window is: ____________.

 

[Romans34]

I think I just said what you said... Water from 'the waters above the firmament' passed through the open windows of heaven -- ('windows of heaven' being the firmament: 2nd & 1st heaven, area of sun, moon, stars, sky) -- onto the surface of the earth.

As in, you can't pass through a closed window, you must pass through an open window.

If you're saying the windows of heaven is the NOT the firmament (2nd & 1st heaven, area of sun, moon, stars, sky), then what are you saying is the "windows of heaven" that were opened? If you were filling in the blank, the Window is: ____________.

Are not windows normally located on the perimeter or outer wall of a house, building, or other edifice? Would not the windows of heaven be affixed to whatever structure is holding up the water that is above the expanse? And if you opened such a 'window', wouldn't water from above the expanse then fall into the expanse all the way to the earth? The windows therefore are not the expanse, but an entrance into the expanse from above it.

 

[HealthAndHappiness]

How many of these flat earth threads are there?

 

[GaryA]

What is the likelihood that God would create one system and then change it to another system before creation week had ended? Why not just create the [final] one first/only and let it operate...?

'one system' - a mist that comes up from the ground

'another system' - rainfall that comes from clouds

 

[GaryA]

How many of these flat earth threads are there?

Too many and not enough...

 

[Tims]

I have stated numerous times that the water fell from above the firmament, NOT the third heaven, which is above the firmament.

Why cannot the "waters above the firmament" refer to the that which separates the 2nd and 3rd heaven? The water simply passed from the "waters above the firmament" through the "windows of heaven" INTO the firmament [Heaven].

I think the "windows of heaven" indicates entrance to the heaven (where God dwells). So we, humans, can't explore the origin of rain which happened during the great flood (except that it was in the sky, not in "outer space", see Genesis 8:2).

Like in Malachi 3:10 "...if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing..."

 

[Magenta]

How many of these flat earth threads are there?

I did a search for threads with titles that have the word "flat" in them. Three pages of them came up. Each page dispayed 20 threads, although I did not look at page three, which could have had less than that. All threads on the first page specifically had to do with the flat earth. I did not check to see the other pages to make sure flat was in relation to earth. Maybe there was one about flat beer, or flat tires LOL. It is also true that there are other flat earth threads that do not use the word "flat" in the thread title. So the answer is, "Lots!" .

 

[HealthAndHappiness]

I did a search for threads with titles that have the word "flat" in them. Three pages of them came up. Each page dispayed 20 threads, although I did not look at page three, which could have had less than that. All threads on the first page specifically had to do with the flat earth. I did not check to see the other pages to make sure flat was in relation to earth. Maybe there was one about flat beer, or flat tires LOL. It is also true that there are other flat earth threads that do not use the word "flat" in the thread title. So the answer is, "Lots!" .

Holey Moon craters Bat Girl!
This is a bigger subject that I ever imagined!

 

[Magenta]

Holey Moon craters Bat Girl!
This is a bigger subject that I ever imagined!

Yes truly amazing. After I checked for "flat" in thread titles, I checked for the word Earth, and saw one immediately about the earth's curvature. I would do more searches for you now if I could, but being on my phone (as I am at work) limits me terribly, and the search function does not even work for me among other things I cannot do.

Netflix had a documentary on flat earthers that was quite well done. The first half was especially interesting because they do not immediately reveal what bunkum it all is. By the halfway mark they start showing how no experiment trying to prove that the earth is flat was ever successful.

 

[HealthAndHappiness]

Yes truly amazing. After I checked for "flat" in thread titles, I checked for the word Earth, and saw one immediately about the earth's curvature. I would do more searches for you now if I could, but being on my phone (as I am at work) limits me terribly, and the search function does not even work for me among other things I cannot do.

Netflix had a documentary on flat earthers that was quite well done. The first half was especially interesting because they do not immediately reveal what bunkum it all is. By the halfway mark they start showing how no experiment trying to prove that the earth is flat was ever successful.

Thanks!
That search was plenty.
When I was a kid, it was just a subject that the atheists would use to rip on the old Roman Catholic dogma of the past.
Now its a movement!

 

[Lynx]

I have to say, heliocentric models did predict the eclipse with great accuracy and detail. I am in West Tennessee and got 98% eclipse, just as predicted, peaking at exactly the minute they predicted.

 

[Sculpt]

Are not windows normally located on the perimeter or outer wall of a house, building, or other edifice? Would not the windows of heaven be affixed to whatever structure is holding up the water that is above the expanse? And if you opened such a 'window', wouldn't water from above the expanse then fall into the expanse all the way to the earth? The windows therefore are not the expanse, but an entrance into the expanse from above it.

Just curious, do you know what a metaphor is? Metaphor: A figure of speech in which a word or phrase that ordinarily designates one thing is used to designate another, thus making an implicit comparison, as in “a sea of troubles”.

The Bible has many metaphors, like:

John 6:35 Jesus said to them, ‘i am the bread of life; he who comes to me will not hunger, and he who believes in me will never thirst.’ Jesus is isn't really made out of bread. It's a metaphor.

Isaiah 64:8 "But now, O Lord, You are our Father, We are the clay, and You our potter; And all of us are the work of Your hand." We aren't literally made on of clay. It's a metaphor.

Window of heaven is not literally a window. It's a metaphor. Think about it, a window is something you can see through, but we no one on earth has seen the 3rd heaven nor the waters above the firmament. If it was literal, perhaps it would read the hidden door of heaven.

No one has seen a structure on the "sides" of the earth; no structure holding up a window in outer space with water on the other side of it. Do you honestly not understand that "windows of heaven" is a metaphor, or are you just pulling our leg?

 

[Romans34]

Just curious, do you know what a metaphor is? Metaphor: A figure of speech in which a word or phrase that ordinarily designates one thing is used to designate another, thus making an implicit comparison, as in “a sea of troubles”.

The Bible has many metaphors, like:

John 6:35 Jesus said to them, ‘i am the bread of life; he who comes to me will not hunger, and he who believes in me will never thirst.’ Jesus is isn't really made out of bread. It's a metaphor.

Isaiah 64:8 "But now, O Lord, You are our Father, We are the clay, and You our potter; And all of us are the work of Your hand." We aren't literally made on of clay. It's a metaphor.

Window of heaven is not literally a window. It's a metaphor. Think about it, a window is something you can see through, but we no one on earth has seen the 3rd heaven nor the waters above the firmament. If it was literal, perhaps it would read the hidden door of heaven.

No one has seen a structure on the "sides" of the earth; no structure holding up a window in outer space with water on the other side of it. Do you honestly not understand that "windows of heaven" is a metaphor, or are you just pulling our leg?

It is precisely a metaphor describing what when opened became a portal of sorts allowing water above the firmament to fall into the firmament which consists of what we call the 1st and 2nd heavens.

 

[2ndTimeIsTheCharm]

Might I ask what "other doctrines about Christianity" that you feel are false? Especially the one(s) that give you the impression that I don't believe in God? More especially that you feel identifies me as a false teacher?

It's not me you should be asking. Have a serious talk with God if you really care what He thinks, if you really care to make changes that will please Him. If you don't, well you've been informed and there are consequences from God for the choices you make. So when you stand before Him, you can't say no one has said anything to you. Especially that you have real Christian influences around you in this forum.

 

[Romans34]

I think the "windows of heaven" indicates entrance to the heaven (where God dwells). So we, humans, can't explore the origin of rain which happened during the great flood (except that it was in the sky, not in "outer space", see Genesis 8:2).

Like in Malachi 3:10 "...if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing..."

Even in Malachi 3:10, the blessing is being poured out from the 3rd heaven (where God dwells) onto the earth (figuratively, of course). He is not opening the windows of heaven to retrieve from below, but to pour out that which is from above -- to down below. The concept of "outer space" is foreign to the scriptures, unless you want to call the 3rd heaven (where God dwells) "outer space" because it is outside (above) the firmament. Sun, moon, and stars are actually "inside" the space that God called the firmament of the heaven(s) [1st and 2nd heavens].

 

[Romans34]

You know, your other doctrines about Christianity are false too. So no surprised you fall for the flat earth conspiracy as well. You're so thick faced about them. I wonder if you actually believe in God. Because no one who believes in God would keep deceiving themselves and others about His works so boldly and not know the consequences of that. I'll see you too when we account ourselves to God.

The only thing good about all this is you expose yourselves as false teachers.

It's not me you should be asking. Have a serious talk with God if you really care what He thinks, if you really care to make changes that will please Him. If you don't, well you've been informed and there are consequences from God for the choices you make. So when you stand before Him, you can't say no one has said anything to you. Especially that you have real Christian influences around you in this forum.

Your quotes, emphasis is mine.
I know where I stand with God. But I believe if you're going to throw around accusations, then you should back them up with substance. I doubt you even know what I believe ("other doctrines about Christianity" [post #275]) that you claim are false, much less be able to prove it.

Jesus said, "Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment." (John 7:24)

And I don't think you have informed me of anything as of yet that I will be held account of in the day of judgment. You've only stated (in essence) that you believe I am a false teacher, but you cannot tell me what it is that I'm teaching that you believe is false. Either because you are too afraid to back your accusations with substance (because you know that you have none), or you yourself have spoken too boldly about that which you know very little and don't really understand His works yourself enough to make the accusations in the first place.

 

[2ndTimeIsTheCharm]

Your quotes, emphasis is mine.
I know where I stand with God. But I believe if you're going to throw around accusations, then you should back them up with substance. I doubt you even know what I believe ("other doctrines about Christianity" [post #275]) that you claim are false, much less be able to prove it.

Jesus said, "Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment." (John 7:24)

And I don't think you have informed me of anything as of yet that I will be held account of in the day of judgment. You've only stated (in essence) that you believe I am a false teacher, but you cannot tell me what it is that I'm teaching that you believe is false. Either because you are too afraid to back your accusations with substance (because you know that you have none), or you yourself have spoken too boldly about that which you know very little and don't really understand His works yourself enough to make the accusations in the first place.

Yeah, okay. If you don't ask God yourself, nothing I say will matter either. Because from all the debates you've had on here in these forums, have you learned anything and changed your ways? No. So what's the point?