Predestination is misunderstood...
- Thread starter Genez
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
you have perfectly defined how Roman Catholicism sees grace which is a cooperation between man and God but Scripture declares that salvation belongs to the Lord and not the choice of men because man is born spiritually dead and can not even see the kingdom of God unless they are first born again let alone choose it.
-
1
- Show all
your words were incoherent because they were contradictory but you seem to not have noticed it.
Every person believes something but saving faith is a gift from God that God grants by grace through the preaching of His word and is not something that man generates within himself.
Eph 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God,
Eph 2:9 not of works, lest anyone should boast.
Every person believes something but saving faith is a gift from God that God grants by grace through the preaching of His word and is not something that man generates within himself.
Eph 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God,
Eph 2:9 not of works, lest anyone should boast.
The Doctrines of Grace are founded upon man being spiritually dead because of the Fall and therefore salvation has to be completely of God by grace alone, through faith alone in Christ alone.
Why don't some of you here try being like the Berean's and see if these things be true rather than robbing a perfectly jealous God of the glory of His salvation.
Why don't some of you here try being like the Berean's and see if these things be true rather than robbing a perfectly jealous God of the glory of His salvation.
-
1
- Show all
John Calvin quoted as saying this
John Calvin is perhaps best known for his doctrine of predestination. He taught that God determined before all time who would be eternally saved and who would be condemned to hell. Christians, he said, should not question God's plan, but rather trust in God's good intentions for their personal life and destiny.
John Calvin says you should not question God's plan but only trust Gods good concerns for your personal life
How come you ain't honoring that by being concerned of his concerns of what he will do to others which is not good.
Oh and if John Calvin wrote this tulip doctrine how come it's questions Gods plan
John Calvin is perhaps best known for his doctrine of predestination. He taught that God determined before all time who would be eternally saved and who would be condemned to hell. Christians, he said, should not question God's plan, but rather trust in God's good intentions for their personal life and destiny.
John Calvin says you should not question God's plan but only trust Gods good concerns for your personal life
How come you ain't honoring that by being concerned of his concerns of what he will do to others which is not good.
Oh and if John Calvin wrote this tulip doctrine how come it's questions Gods plan
And so, you have just validated other Christians arguing that you have a different unsaving gospel . If you claim their gospel is so fundamentally different from yours, that theirs is a false gospel, then if they have the right gospel, yours is so fundamentally different from theirs that yours is a false gospel. And those you anathemise are quite in keeping with your judgment of their faith to anathemise you.
-
1
- Show all
Might this apply?
Then people brought little children to Jesus for him to place his hands on them and pray for them.
But the disciples rebuked them.
Jesus said, “Let the little children come to me, and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of heaven
Jesus said, “Let the little children come to me, and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of heaven
belongs to such as these.” When he had placed his hands on them, he went on from there." Matthew 19:13-15
grace and peace .......
-
1
- Show all
Again, Where are you getting these ideas from?[/QUOTE]
Jesus said whoever eats will never die. I trust him
He said whoever drinks will never thirst. I believe him
He said whoever believes will never die, and will be raised.
He said unlike the food they ate the day before. or the Manna that God gave their fathers. whoever eats that bread will still die. but whoever eats the bread he came to give will live forever.
The bold verbs are all present tense. He does not say -
Whoever ate at some time will never die. I trust him
Whoever drank at some time will never thirst. I believe him
Whoever believed at some time will never die, and will be raised.
Whoever ate at some time that bread will still die. but whoever ate at some time the bread he came to give will live forever.
You are interpreting these present tense verbs as if it were an aorist aspect verbs, which is why you are wrong..
You said, "I also believe what Jesus said in John 3, about how one is born again. He used the example of Moses lifting the serpent. Whoever in faith looked to that serpent lived, Whoever did not died. The people who looked looked because they trusted God. those who did not look had no trust in God. As Jesus also said. whoever believes is not condemned, whoever does not believe is condemned already.
If we look to the cross in faith. we are born again (regenerated) and saved forever. God said we will never die. I trust him.
The Old Testament passage does not say that after having looked to the bronze snake, if someone was bitten again, they were immune from the poison because they had already looked once before. The text implies that whenever, and as many times as, someone was bitten, they needed to look at the bronze serpent. Your text makes my case. The only deadly sin was not looking to the bronze serpent because of not trusting God. That's what I am saying. The only deadly sin for which we forfeit aeonous life with God in the NOW, is refusing to trust God and His appointed King in the NOW.
Jesus said whoever eats will never die. I trust him
He said whoever drinks will never thirst. I believe him
He said whoever believes will never die, and will be raised.
He said unlike the food they ate the day before. or the Manna that God gave their fathers. whoever eats that bread will still die. but whoever eats the bread he came to give will live forever.
The bold verbs are all present tense. He does not say -
Whoever ate at some time will never die. I trust him
Whoever drank at some time will never thirst. I believe him
Whoever believed at some time will never die, and will be raised.
Whoever ate at some time that bread will still die. but whoever ate at some time the bread he came to give will live forever.
You are interpreting these present tense verbs as if it were an aorist aspect verbs, which is why you are wrong..
You said, "I also believe what Jesus said in John 3, about how one is born again. He used the example of Moses lifting the serpent. Whoever in faith looked to that serpent lived, Whoever did not died. The people who looked looked because they trusted God. those who did not look had no trust in God. As Jesus also said. whoever believes is not condemned, whoever does not believe is condemned already.
If we look to the cross in faith. we are born again (regenerated) and saved forever. God said we will never die. I trust him.
The Old Testament passage does not say that after having looked to the bronze snake, if someone was bitten again, they were immune from the poison because they had already looked once before. The text implies that whenever, and as many times as, someone was bitten, they needed to look at the bronze serpent. Your text makes my case. The only deadly sin was not looking to the bronze serpent because of not trusting God. That's what I am saying. The only deadly sin for which we forfeit aeonous life with God in the NOW, is refusing to trust God and His appointed King in the NOW.
Again, Where are you getting these ideas from?[/QUOTE]
Jesus said whoever eats will never die. I trust him
He said whoever drinks will never thirst. I believe him
He said whoever believes will never die, and will be raised.
He said unlike the food they ate the day before. or the Manna that God gave their fathers. whoever eats that bread will still die. but whoever eats the bread he came to give will live forever.
The bold verbs are all present tense. He does not say -
Whoever ate at some time will never die. I trust him
Whoever drank at some time will never thirst. I believe him
Whoever believed at some time will never die, and will be raised.
Whoever ate at some time that bread will still die. but whoever ate at some time the bread he came to give will live forever.
You are interpreting these present tense verbs as if it were an aorist aspect verbs, which is why you are wrong..
You said, "I also believe what Jesus said in John 3, about how one is born again. He used the example of Moses lifting the serpent. Whoever in faith looked to that serpent lived, Whoever did not died. The people who looked looked because they trusted God. those who did not look had no trust in God. As Jesus also said. whoever believes is not condemned, whoever does not believe is condemned already.
If we look to the cross in faith. we are born again (regenerated) and saved forever. God said we will never die. I trust him.
The Old Testament passage does not say that after having looked to the bronze snake, if someone was bitten again, they were immune from the poison because they had already looked once before. The text implies that whenever, and as many times as, someone was bitten, they needed to look at the bronze serpent. Your text makes my case. The only deadly sin was not looking to the bronze serpent because of not trusting God. That's what I am saying. The only deadly sin for which we forfeit aeonous life with God in the NOW, is refusing to trust God and His appointed King in the NOW.
Jesu define is in John 17:3 "And this is aeonous life, to know [experientially, relationally] You the only true God and Jesus Christ whom you sent." It is living in the present in open fellowship with the great I AM [and other lesser "I am" - s.]
Jesus said whoever eats will never die. I trust him
He said whoever drinks will never thirst. I believe him
He said whoever believes will never die, and will be raised.
He said unlike the food they ate the day before. or the Manna that God gave their fathers. whoever eats that bread will still die. but whoever eats the bread he came to give will live forever.
The bold verbs are all present tense. He does not say -
Whoever ate at some time will never die. I trust him
Whoever drank at some time will never thirst. I believe him
Whoever believed at some time will never die, and will be raised.
Whoever ate at some time that bread will still die. but whoever ate at some time the bread he came to give will live forever.
You are interpreting these present tense verbs as if it were an aorist aspect verbs, which is why you are wrong..
You said, "I also believe what Jesus said in John 3, about how one is born again. He used the example of Moses lifting the serpent. Whoever in faith looked to that serpent lived, Whoever did not died. The people who looked looked because they trusted God. those who did not look had no trust in God. As Jesus also said. whoever believes is not condemned, whoever does not believe is condemned already.
If we look to the cross in faith. we are born again (regenerated) and saved forever. God said we will never die. I trust him.
The Old Testament passage does not say that after having looked to the bronze snake, if someone was bitten again, they were immune from the poison because they had already looked once before. The text implies that whenever, and as many times as, someone was bitten, they needed to look at the bronze serpent. Your text makes my case. The only deadly sin was not looking to the bronze serpent because of not trusting God. That's what I am saying. The only deadly sin for which we forfeit aeonous life with God in the NOW, is refusing to trust God and His appointed King in the NOW.
Jesu define is in John 17:3 "And this is aeonous life, to know [experientially, relationally] You the only true God and Jesus Christ whom you sent." It is living in the present in open fellowship with the great I AM [and other lesser "I am" - s.]
Those who do not believe are condemned already. Why?
Because, they refused at some point the drawing of God that must precede being presented the Gospel.
The Father's drawing must precede the act of regeneration which takes place when the Father will hand those who accept His drawing over to the Son.
So when they do not believe? It indicates that the Father refuses to hand that one over to His Son. God condemned them for refusing.
God's drawing that was resisted took place prior to hearing the Gospel.
When they resolved to reject the process of God's drawing them? They were marked as condemned prior to hearing to believe in Christ.
For the Father draws each and every person in a very personalized way. In a manner which is designed to bring each soul to become wanting to get closer and closer to the beauty of His essence.
grace and peace ..............
Because, they refused at some point the drawing of God that must precede being presented the Gospel.
The Father's drawing must precede the act of regeneration which takes place when the Father will hand those who accept His drawing over to the Son.
So when they do not believe? It indicates that the Father refuses to hand that one over to His Son. God condemned them for refusing.
God's drawing that was resisted took place prior to hearing the Gospel.
When they resolved to reject the process of God's drawing them? They were marked as condemned prior to hearing to believe in Christ.
For the Father draws each and every person in a very personalized way. In a manner which is designed to bring each soul to become wanting to get closer and closer to the beauty of His essence.
grace and peace ..............
None of that lines up with what the bible teaches. You're merely expressing your private philosophy and it is contrary to Gods Word. Private interpretations always lead to false doctrine, we don't have the privilege to add our private view or take anything away from Gods perfect and inerrant word.
You should consider the fact that, there is a way that seems right to man, but the ed thereof is destruction. And lean not on your understanding and philosophy, but live by every Word that proceeds from the mouth of God.
See, man has nothing to boast about. Man is naturally proud and boastful about how smart we are, but mans wisdom is foolishness to God.
You should consider the fact that, there is a way that seems right to man, but the ed thereof is destruction. And lean not on your understanding and philosophy, but live by every Word that proceeds from the mouth of God.
See, man has nothing to boast about. Man is naturally proud and boastful about how smart we are, but mans wisdom is foolishness to God.
-
1
- Show all
Ok... now I see...
You just spelled it a little differently.
Taken from another person's notes while he was listening to a teaching of my pastor.....
" everlasting/eternal {aionios} life."
My pastor said 'aionios' means either eternal or everlasting.
When applied to God?
He has no beginning. So it is eternal life.
When applied to creatures?
We have a beginning with no end. So then it should be rendered everlasting life.
That was what you were getting at?
grace and peace .............
You just spelled it a little differently.
Taken from another person's notes while he was listening to a teaching of my pastor.....
" everlasting/eternal {aionios} life."
My pastor said 'aionios' means either eternal or everlasting.
When applied to God?
He has no beginning. So it is eternal life.
When applied to creatures?
We have a beginning with no end. So then it should be rendered everlasting life.
That was what you were getting at?
grace and peace .............
