Predestination is misunderstood...
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The crowd of 500 kept eating the bread and it kept on lasting. The crowd of 4000 kept eating the bread and it kept lasting.
In John 6, Jesus equated eating the bread with believing Him and His words. Do you think that once we first believe enough to first be regenerated, we can stop believing Jesus and His words but remain in aeonous life, which Jesu defines in John 17:3 as experientially knowing Him and His Father?
God saves by grace through faith. God want all to be saved. He has put away the sins of all through Christ, and is not reckoning anyone's sins to them in this particular new testament period. The only ones who will not be saved are those who actively reject Jesus from being King and saviour over them.
We are born innocent and with an innate participatory knowledge of and an intimate relationship with God, somewhat akin to the babies non-intellectual relationship with its mother. We go astray from that intuitive experience of God as we become exposed to and take on ungodly ideas and attitudes and behaviours from our environment. Neither those who are justified by His death and saved by believing in His life, His resurrection, nor those who are justified by His death but deny His life, His resurrection, did anything to earn the expunging of their sins by the death of Jesus. God did that on His own initiative. But some actively deny Jesus' resurrection and reject Him as King; or some reject God as Lord over them even if they have not heard of Jesus. These earn their own exclusion from God's restored and healed kingdom on earth.
In John 6, Jesus equated eating the bread with believing Him and His words. Do you think that once we first believe enough to first be regenerated, we can stop believing Jesus and His words but remain in aeonous life, which Jesu defines in John 17:3 as experientially knowing Him and His Father?
God saves by grace through faith. God want all to be saved. He has put away the sins of all through Christ, and is not reckoning anyone's sins to them in this particular new testament period. The only ones who will not be saved are those who actively reject Jesus from being King and saviour over them.
We are born innocent and with an innate participatory knowledge of and an intimate relationship with God, somewhat akin to the babies non-intellectual relationship with its mother. We go astray from that intuitive experience of God as we become exposed to and take on ungodly ideas and attitudes and behaviours from our environment. Neither those who are justified by His death and saved by believing in His life, His resurrection, nor those who are justified by His death but deny His life, His resurrection, did anything to earn the expunging of their sins by the death of Jesus. God did that on His own initiative. But some actively deny Jesus' resurrection and reject Him as King; or some reject God as Lord over them even if they have not heard of Jesus. These earn their own exclusion from God's restored and healed kingdom on earth.
I stand naked before Him every time I have a shower.
I am not unaware of how exhaustive divine determinists demand to be recognised as fellow Christians who preach the same gospel as other Christians, on the basis that we all profess using similar vocabulary, belief in some of the same gospel foundations; but when we disagree with and reject exhaustive divine determinist distinctives, with no reticence, they accuse us of preaching a different accursed gospel and call us heretics. You can't have it both ways, maxamir.
I am not unaware of how exhaustive divine determinists demand to be recognised as fellow Christians who preach the same gospel as other Christians, on the basis that we all profess using similar vocabulary, belief in some of the same gospel foundations; but when we disagree with and reject exhaustive divine determinist distinctives, with no reticence, they accuse us of preaching a different accursed gospel and call us heretics. You can't have it both ways, maxamir.
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I believe this
Jesus said whoever eats will never die. I trust him
He said whoever drinks will never thirst. I believe him
He said whoever believes will never die, and will be raised.
He said unlike the food they ate the day before. or the Manna that God gave their fathers. whoever eats that bread will still die. but whoever eats the bread he came to give will live forever.
I also believe what Jesus said in John 3, about how one is born again. He used the example of Moses lifting the serpent. Whoever in faith looked to that serpent lived, Whoever did not died. The people who looked looked because they trusted God. those who did not look had no trust in God. As Jesus also said. whoever believes is not condemned, whoever does not believe is condemned already.
If we look to the cross in faith. we are born again (regenerated) and saved forever. God said we will never die. I trust him.
What?
May I ask where you are getting this idea from?
No we are born dead, under adam.
[quote[We go astray from that intuitive experience of God as we become exposed to and take on ungodly ideas and attitudes and behaviours from our environment. Neither those who are justified by His death and saved by believing in His life, His resurrection, nor those who are justified by His death but deny His life, His resurrection, did anything to earn the expunging of their sins by the death of Jesus. God did that on His own initiative. But some actively deny Jesus' resurrection and reject Him as King; or some reject God as Lord over them even if they have not heard of Jesus. These earn their own exclusion from God's restored and healed kingdom on earth.[/QUOTE]
Again, Where are you getting these ideas from?
Jesus said whoever eats will never die. I trust him
He said whoever drinks will never thirst. I believe him
He said whoever believes will never die, and will be raised.
He said unlike the food they ate the day before. or the Manna that God gave their fathers. whoever eats that bread will still die. but whoever eats the bread he came to give will live forever.
I also believe what Jesus said in John 3, about how one is born again. He used the example of Moses lifting the serpent. Whoever in faith looked to that serpent lived, Whoever did not died. The people who looked looked because they trusted God. those who did not look had no trust in God. As Jesus also said. whoever believes is not condemned, whoever does not believe is condemned already.
If we look to the cross in faith. we are born again (regenerated) and saved forever. God said we will never die. I trust him.
What?
May I ask where you are getting this idea from?
No we are born dead, under adam.
[quote[We go astray from that intuitive experience of God as we become exposed to and take on ungodly ideas and attitudes and behaviours from our environment. Neither those who are justified by His death and saved by believing in His life, His resurrection, nor those who are justified by His death but deny His life, His resurrection, did anything to earn the expunging of their sins by the death of Jesus. God did that on His own initiative. But some actively deny Jesus' resurrection and reject Him as King; or some reject God as Lord over them even if they have not heard of Jesus. These earn their own exclusion from God's restored and healed kingdom on earth.[/QUOTE]
Again, Where are you getting these ideas from?
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Grace was the reason you were made able to understand.
God's gentle power (grace) suppressed your depraved flesh, so that your soul was able to see what was needed to become saved.
You were blinded by your flesh which opposes God. Grace subdued your flesh into silence.
Then..... God let your soul to decide what you were to believe.
This same grace is applied to unbelievers flesh at some point.,... and their souls will to reject God... just like Satan and his angels did.
Romans 1:18-25 is a perfect example of how God was working in the unbeliever who would in the end reject God. For it says they reached the point where they knew God and needed to create lies to suppress the truth... God’s Wrath Against Sinful Humanity
You are not a programmable puppet. Calvinism was an attempt to explain things gone bad.
grace and peace ....................
God's gentle power (grace) suppressed your depraved flesh, so that your soul was able to see what was needed to become saved.
You were blinded by your flesh which opposes God. Grace subdued your flesh into silence.
Then..... God let your soul to decide what you were to believe.
This same grace is applied to unbelievers flesh at some point.,... and their souls will to reject God... just like Satan and his angels did.
Romans 1:18-25 is a perfect example of how God was working in the unbeliever who would in the end reject God. For it says they reached the point where they knew God and needed to create lies to suppress the truth... God’s Wrath Against Sinful Humanity
You are not a programmable puppet. Calvinism was an attempt to explain things gone bad.
grace and peace ....................
Exalting the will of man in salvation.
Nothing Gentle about Gods Grace, its omnipotent spiritual power, for it reigns supreme over sin and death. Rom 5:21
21 That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.
Grace conquers what Adam and sin and death effected.
Nothing Gentle about Gods Grace, its omnipotent spiritual power, for it reigns supreme over sin and death. Rom 5:21
21 That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.
Grace conquers what Adam and sin and death effected.
You can't think outside of the TULIP box? ......
Not exalting... Giving the soul its proper place.
For it was the soul that was created in the image of God.
The will of man is depraved as long as the flesh holds the ascendancy.
The soul needs to be freed from the depravity ....
That is what I have been saying, too.
grace and peace ...........
Not exalting... Giving the soul its proper place.
For it was the soul that was created in the image of God.
The will of man is depraved as long as the flesh holds the ascendancy.
The soul needs to be freed from the depravity ....
That is what I have been saying, too.
grace and peace ...........
No you been exalting the will if man. However Grace reigns through Jesus Christ, all for whom He died receive grace from His Fulness Jn 1:16
16 And of his fulness have all we received, and grace for grace.
You demean grace saying
Thats what Christ does for them He died for, He sets them free by the New Birth
Jn 8:36
If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.
He makes them Free He died for, do you believe that ?
16 And of his fulness have all we received, and grace for grace.
You demean grace saying
Thats what Christ does for them He died for, He sets them free by the New Birth
Jn 8:36
If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.
He makes them Free He died for, do you believe that ?
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Incoherent to you, others understood.
Faith comes from the word. Faith is not simply the work of a man's volition (will). Hebrews tells us faith is assurance and conviction. (Heb.11:1) There is an absolute certainty when one has faith, a certainty you will literally stake your life on. I can say "I believe God cares for me", but it's not till I get in the "sticky" situation do I see whether I truly have faith or whether I am simply relying on the strength of my own will.
Your inability to understand how a man can use His volition to agree with God when shown the truth is most likely why you don't comprehend what I said. You speak as if you are just a puppet, unable to do even the things God created us to do by design. Men can believe whatever they want, but it takes believing the truth in order to have faith. The word is truth and only when it is working in your soul does a man have faith.
Psalm 119:11
Your word I have hidden in my heart, That I might not sin against You.
You hide the word in your heart by believing on it and keep on believing but it is the word (truth) that has the power of faith, not our willingness to believe. God honours His word and saves the believer. The most power our wills have is to reveal who we are.
Faith comes from the word. Faith is not simply the work of a man's volition (will). Hebrews tells us faith is assurance and conviction. (Heb.11:1) There is an absolute certainty when one has faith, a certainty you will literally stake your life on. I can say "I believe God cares for me", but it's not till I get in the "sticky" situation do I see whether I truly have faith or whether I am simply relying on the strength of my own will.
Your inability to understand how a man can use His volition to agree with God when shown the truth is most likely why you don't comprehend what I said. You speak as if you are just a puppet, unable to do even the things God created us to do by design. Men can believe whatever they want, but it takes believing the truth in order to have faith. The word is truth and only when it is working in your soul does a man have faith.
Psalm 119:11
Your word I have hidden in my heart, That I might not sin against You.
You hide the word in your heart by believing on it and keep on believing but it is the word (truth) that has the power of faith, not our willingness to believe. God honours His word and saves the believer. The most power our wills have is to reveal who we are.
If, maybe He will maybe He won't. Christ died for the sin of all men. Maybe they will believe, maybe they won't.
When you finally realise Christ didn't die for only a select group of men and that God gave us our own volition in order to use it and that grace sets our volition free (and please note it is grace that does this, not regeneration), then you will understand what is being said.
God has made salvation conditional, but it is not conditional upon His election, He made it conditional upon believing in Him. It is God who has done this, not men.
John 3:16
For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.
When you finally realise Christ didn't die for only a select group of men and that God gave us our own volition in order to use it and that grace sets our volition free (and please note it is grace that does this, not regeneration), then you will understand what is being said.
God has made salvation conditional, but it is not conditional upon His election, He made it conditional upon believing in Him. It is God who has done this, not men.
John 3:16
For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.
Being a puppet is not humility...
Being a puppet leaves one "empty handed" when it comes to learning to think with God's Word to think for yourself.
In contrast. The humble end up being made more and more (by grace) to become one with God in his thinking.
God wants us to think for ourselves. Think while in union with Him, through sound doctrinal thinking.
Now, we always have Satan's plan.
Satan wants to tell our flesh that how we feel about a matter is right and will provide false doctrine to make it feel justified.
Then... the one who listens to the false teaching? He becomes a "puppet of his flesh." Now functioning in a transformed (religious) state on mind..
Religion is flesh hiding from God in the name of God.
grace and peace .........................
Be that as it may.
Grace power is still gentle.
Now if you are thinking contrary to truth, and fight grace?
Then it seems not to be gentle....
grace and peace ................
Grace power is still gentle.
Now if you are thinking contrary to truth, and fight grace?
Then it seems not to be gentle....
Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in heart,
and you will find rest for your souls." Mattew 11:29
grace and peace ................
