Did Jesus Die on The Cross for The Just/Elect/Saved Whose Names Are Written in The Book of Life OR

[Rufus]

This is because positionally God sees his elect as righteous as the Savior in whom God placed them. However, God's imputed righteousness to us does not equate as practical perfection in this age since we still possess Adam's sin nature. In this age, we are working out our salvation (not to be confused as "working for" our salvation). I believe brother BB was referring to himself as a "sinner" in this latter practical everyday life sense.

We do not work out salvation. I don't even know what language I would need to help you out here.

Are you brother BB's lawyer? Positionally of course

YEAH we are positionally in the position of salvation. Would you like to be somewhere else?

THAT is where God sees us. Positionally righteous.

You are free to work at whatever it is you think you need to work at/out, but Jesus said 'It is finished' and gave up His life and I am buried with Him, that is the life I now live, I live in Him. Jesus is our Sabbath rest.[/QUOTE]

And Jesus also said through his apostle:

Phil 2:12-13
12 Therefore, my dear friends, as you have always obeyed — not only in my presence, but now much more in my absence — continue to work out your salvation with fear and trembling, 13 for it is God who works in you to will and to act according to his good purpose.
NIV

Another slim on real knowledge of the Holy Word, are we? Maybe you should spend more time in The Book and less time on these forums to try to prayerfully get yourself up to speed?

 

[Niki7]

RUFUS: why are you quoting me but rendering it as though you stated it? Fix this in the future please because it is a false representation of the conversation

We do not work out salvation. I don't even know what language I would need to help you out here.

Are you brother BB's lawyer? Positionally of course

YEAH we are positionally in the position of salvation. Would you like to be somewhere else?

THAT is where God sees us. Positionally righteous.

You are free to work at whatever it is you think you need to work at/out, but Jesus said 'It is finished' and gave up His life and I am buried with Him, that is the life I now live, I live in Him. Jesus is our Sabbath rest.[/QUOTE]

And Jesus also said through his apostle:

Phil 2:12-13
12 Therefore, my dear friends, as you have always obeyed — not only in my presence, but now much more in my absence — continue to work out your salvation with fear and trembling, 13 for it is God who works in you to will and to act according to his good purpose.
NIV

Another slim on real knowledge of the Holy Word, are we? Maybe you should spend more time in The Book and less time on these forums to try to prayerfully get yourself up to speed?

Oh I've seen that type of understanding before. So you blame God when you sin? Of course when you are locked into the 'elect' of Calvin mindset, rather than the biblical 'elect', that can occur.

Apart from that, what bearing does your response have on the positionally righteous standing we have with God that you even admitted to yourself?

I can't help you. You continue to attempt to confuse others to create a false dilemma but it seems it may be backfiring.

What you are doing is also known as 'gaslighting'.

ps: are you having trouble with the 'reply' option on posts? If you can use it, it would make the posts you are replying to, stand out (that is what the reply button is actually for)

You actually have yourself saying what I said. smh

 

[FollowerofShiloh]

In other words your form of idolatry is to ignore contexts of passages which allows you to build your entire belief system on pretext. Tsk, tsk, tsk.

God said MERCY but the Reformers "corrected God" with the usage of Grace.
Who is able to correct God?
Idolatry!

 

[selahsays]

We do not work out salvation. I don't even know what language I would need to help you out here.

Are you brother BB's lawyer? Positionally of course

YEAH we are positionally in the position of salvation. Would you like to be somewhere else?

THAT is where God sees us. Positionally righteous.

You are free to work at whatever it is you think you need to work at/out, but Jesus said 'It is finished' and gave up His life and I am buried with Him, that is the life I now live, I live in Him. Jesus is our Sabbath rest.[/QUOTE]

And Jesus also said through his apostle:

Phil 2:12-13
12 Therefore, my dear friends, as you have always obeyed — not only in my presence, but now much more in my absence — continue to work out your salvation with fear and trembling, 13 for it is God who works in you to will and to act according to his good purpose.
NIV

Another slim on real knowledge of the Holy Word, are we? Maybe you should spend more time in The Book and less time on these forums to try to prayerfully get yourself up to speed?

I agree. Paul is encouraging the Philippians to always obey God's Word. No one can save themselves by their own efforts. There is only one Savior and that Savior is Jesus Christ. I also believe that these words, “work out your salvation“ have been misinterpreted by folks. This means, I think, that we should spend time studying the Bible—also time in prayer and meditation and repentance.

 

[Niki7]

I agree. Paul is encouraging the Philippians to always obey God's Word. No one can save themselves by their own efforts. There is only one Savior and that Savior is Jesus Christ. I also believe that these words, “work out your salvation“ have been misinterpreted by folks. This means, I think, that we should spend time studying the Bible—also time in prayer and meditation and repentance.

Rufus quoted my post. He does not know how to use the reply option apparently.

 

[selahsays]

Rufus quoted my post. He does not know how to use the reply option apparently.

Okay.

 

[Rufus]

I don’t get unconditional election because it doesn’t make sense to me. I believe election was conditional (for a reason) and, of course, that it took place before the foundation of the world.

Three things: Are the New Covenant promises of God in these two central OT passages (Jer 31 and Ezek 36) bilateral or unilateral? Conditional or unconditional?

Secondly, what were the conditions under which God loved (chose) Jacob and hated (rejected) Esau in Rom 9?

And lastly, why can't the biblical doctrine of Unconditional Election be referring solely to the absolute and total moral/spiritual bankruptcy of sinners to teach us that there is no good thing inherent in any sinner that would warrant God's attraction to him?

This last question is extremely important because I can actually sympathize with your expressed concern. That question, however, does not preclude the possibility that God's election of sinners in eternity was also Conditional -- but if so in an entirely different sense. The only person it could be found in is the Last Adam. Mankind's salvation is conditioned only on his perfect obedience to his Father's will in every respect and at all times. (Meditate on Rom 5:12ff.) So, what we have here is, yet, another profound paradox in scripture.

 

[BillyBob]

You make yourself a liar by saying that you are not fully justified before God through the blood of Christ.

Kindly note I am not calling you a liar.

Are you brother BB's lawyer? Positionally of course

I stand by my posts and do not need a lawyer! Especially against someone who is so puffed-up and full of themselves. My prior posts simply claim that although I am forgiven I mourn the fact that I continue to do that which is not pleasing to God!
It is you that take my comments and twist them to make an argument..

 

[Niki7]

Three things: Are the New Covenant promises of God in these two central OT passages (Jer 31 and Ezek 36) bilateral or unilateral? Conditional or unconditional?

Secondly, what were the conditions under which God loved (chose) Jacob and hated (rejected) Esau in Rom 9?

And lastly, why can't the biblical doctrine of Unconditional Election be referring solely to the absolute and total moral/spiritual bankruptcy of sinners to teach us that there is no good thing inherent in any sinner that would warrant God's attraction to him?

This last question is extremely important because I can actually sympathize with your expressed concern. That question, however, does not preclude the possibility that God's election of sinners in eternity was also Conditional -- but if so in an entirely different sense. The only person it could be found in is the Last Adam. Mankind's salvation is conditioned only on his perfect obedience to his Father's will in every respect and at all times. (Meditate on Rom 5:12ff.) So, what we have here is, yet, another profound paradox in scripture.

One question. Why do you seem to never actually address what some people post here, but instead twist what they say or just ignore it altogether?

oh sorry....one more question. Do you suppose you could avail yourself of the reply option instead of creating quotes? you are not good at the quotes you create as, again sadly, you just attributed my post to yourself and then answered that same post as yourself

please do try to keep who says what clearer as otherwise, you create confusion

 

[Niki7]

I stand by my posts and do not need a lawyer! Especially against someone who is so puffed-up and full of themselves. My prior posts simply claim that although I am forgiven I mourn the fact that I continue to do that which is not pleasing to God!
It is you that take my comments and twist them to make an argument..

y'all can stand, sit, pass out, walk whatever

Your sad defense is not against me. It is against scripture. I would never argue with someone who has no defense to make.

In fact, discussion is the way to go, but when you try to gaslight people and accuse others of what you do yourself, you are basically broadcasting the apparent fact you prefer to leave off discussion and create amusing sentiments that have zero to do with scripture that was posted.

 

[Rufus]

Gee, that's cold! God did say that He provided salvation for everyone if they choose to accept it.

1 Timothy 2:3 This is good, and pleases God our Savior, 4 who wants all people to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God and one mediator between God and mankind, the man Christ Jesus, 6 who gave himself as a ransom for all people. This has now been witnessed to at the proper time.

I don't know how you can miss that.


🚀

You think that's cold!? Try a dish of God's justice!

But you ducked the question entirely. The passage above is a non sequitur. All the passage is teaching is that the general disposition of God's heart is that he'd "prefer" or "rather have" or "wish" all men to be saved. But that is a far cry from him decreeing "that all men" be saved. Verse 4 does not read, " who predestines or predestined all people to be saved", does it?

So...the question remains: Is God morally obligated to save anyone? Is He somehow indebted to us? He owes us a favor? Does the Potter have no right do do with his clay pots as he wants?

 

[Rufus]

One question. Why do you seem to never actually address what some people post here, but instead twist what they say or just ignore it altogether?

oh sorry....one more question. Do you suppose you could avail yourself of the reply option instead of creating quotes? you are not good at the quotes you create as, again sadly, you just attributed my post to yourself and then answered that same post as yourself

please do try to keep who says what clearer as otherwise, you create confusion

I do address people's posts. I suspect you just don't like my biblical replies.

But sorry for the confusion I created. Hopefully, this reply will go through loud 'n' clear.

 

[BillyBob]

y'all can stand, sit, pass out, walk whatever

I don't care at all for some of the smart aleck comments people often make.

I rest my case!

 

[Niki7]

I do address people's posts. I suspect you just don't like my biblical replies.

But sorry for the confusion I created. Hopefully, this reply will go through loud 'n' clear.

That is not what I said tho. You just illustrated my point.

I said you should hit the reply button to quote properly. I see you can actually do that so I wonder why you tried to make what I said so scrambled?

Gaslight much?

 

[Niki7]

I rest my case!

No. I literally meant that. You can take any position you like. The Bible has one position with regards to our salvation and how God now sees us and you do not seem to understand that.

 

[Niki7]

You think that's cold!? Try a dish of God's justice!

But you ducked the question entirely. The passage above is a non sequitur. All the passage is teaching is that the general disposition of God's heart is that he'd "prefer" or "rather have" or "wish" all men to be saved. But that is a far cry from him decreeing "that all men" be saved. Verse 4 does not read, " who predestines or predestined all people to be saved", does it?

So...the question remains: Is God morally obligated to save anyone? Is He somehow indebted to us? He owes us a favor? Does the Potter have no right do do with his clay pots as he wants?

This, ^^^^, reads as though you believe God is at our level of morality.

God is love...please explain why you seem to think He has replaced that with morality?

 

[MerSee]

God said MERCY but the Reformers "corrected God" with the usage of Grace.
Who is able to correct God?
Idolatry!

Grace to sin more is their motto.

 

[MerSee]

This, ^^^^, reads as though you believe God is at our level of morality.

God is love...please explain why you seem to think He has replaced that with morality?

The God of love hates immorality/unbelief.

 

[selahsays]

Three things: Are the New Covenant promises of God in these two central OT passages (Jer 31 and Ezek 36) bilateral or unilateral? Conditional or unconditional?

Secondly, what were the conditions under which God loved (chose) Jacob and hated (rejected) Esau in Rom 9?

And lastly, why can't the biblical doctrine of Unconditional Election be referring solely to the absolute and total moral/spiritual bankruptcy of sinners to teach us that there is no good thing inherent in any sinner that would warrant God's attraction to him?

This last question is extremely important because I can actually sympathize with your expressed concern. That question, however, does not preclude the possibility that God's election of sinners in eternity was also Conditional -- but if so in an entirely different sense. The only person it could be found in is the Last Adam. Mankind's salvation is conditioned only on his perfect obedience to his Father's will in every respect and at all times. (Meditate on Rom 5:12ff.) So, what we have here is, yet, another profound paradox in scripture.

I’ll study all this and ponder it over with the Holy Spirit helping me out, okay? I’ll get back to you later. Thanks. —Selah

 

[Niki7]

The God of love hates immorality/unbelief.

Do you know what the answer to people sinning is?

God provided an answer because He is love.

What is that answer. Do you know?