Can the nonelect ever be born-again? (2 Kings 22:27) With the elect thou wilt be elect: and with the perverse thou wilt be perverted.
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so how where peoole saved in the old covenant without atonement or was it limited atonement in the old covenant
From our perspective, we go through a process to ultimately receive a glorified, incorruptible, sinless, immortal body. All of Gods children will be resurrected and transformed in a moment, and we will finally be restored back to His image. It will be the final step into eternity and time and death will be no more.
So we go through a process, but God see it as good as done because nobody can snatch His children out of His hand. Those He purposed to save before He created the world and wrote their names in his book of life, will by no means fall away because He is the One who keeps us from falling away.
If it was just us against Satan, then nobody would endure to the end, everyone would succumb to the super powerful enemy.
Everyone one is born with a fallen sin nature, which we inherit from our parents. Nobody can change who they are, anymore than a Leopard can change his spots.
Children don't need to be taught how to lie, or steal, or disobey their parents or fight against their siblings. But they need to be forced to do the right thing, by threatening them with corporal punishment.
Everyone is a natural born sinner, and nobody can change themselves and turn from their sin and surrender their lives to God. Sin is not a static thing, the longer a person lives to deeper they plunge into depravity. So they become more and more hardened and their concise is seared with a hot iron, making it impossible for them to repent.
Jesus made it clear on many occasions that, that it is impossible for man to repent. He likened it to being born again, and when Nicodemus said. "This is impossible, who can be saved then", the Lord agreed and said, but all things are possible with God. That has to mean, that salvation is of the Lord and not by mans choice
The old covenant saints are living in the intermediary state in the Lords presence, right now just as the new covenant saints are. This is were all the Saints are util the general resurrection on judgement day.
The purpose of the old covenant was to demonstrate, that man is fallen and he needs to keep making sacrifices to atone for his sin until the promised Messiah arrives and atones for everyone's sin once and for all.
Saved people were saved before the world was created, but from our perspective we go through a process of regeneration, sanctification, transformation and finally glorification.
Whilst we live in this body of death, we will wrestle against temptation everyday, and will won't win every wrestling match so we will be overcome by temptation regularly until we die and receive our glorified sinless body.
Some will say, ahhh that means you born again people continue to sin. No it means we begin a battle against sin, but were not given over to serve sin as the unconverted are.
They sin continually, and their best efforts to resist are not accounted to their spiritual growth, because they only resist to save themselves from the pain sin brings and not because they love God and wat to obey Him as a result of the love He showed them by saving them and paying the penalty for their sin.
They were saved just like us today, by placing the trust in the Lord Jesus Christ. Except they looked forward to His coming and we look back to when He came but it's exactly the same deal.
The whole Bible is about Jesus Christ, from cover to cover. There is no other name under heaven by which you must be saved. All the old testament prophets spoke about Jesus.
they where saved by placing there trust does that mean they never had total depravity then.
I guess you know what I'm saying.
The Calvinism view point of view is man is not able to respond to God.
So how where they enabled in the old testament.
lol ok Charlie, Good Job im not a leopard
Ok well take care Charlie I'll chat soon
God made both the old and new covenant believers, respond to the gospel message with faith from their totally depraved state the same way.
A totally depraved man is dead in his sins and trespasses, what can a dead man do. Answer nothing, so it always comes back to the fact that salvation is of the Lord. The only thing man contributes is a stinking corpse
No worries my dear friend, I won't give up on you. I'll be there for you to remind you that God is the One who quickens us to life and keeps us from falling away.lol ok Charlie, Good Job im not a leopard
Ok well take care Charlie I'll chat soon
I notice you put a lot of faith in your own ability to save yourself by your good works. I'd like to remind you that our best works are as filthy rags in God's sight, so why would you place your trust in filthy rags.
makes no sense Charlie, describing people as totally depraved, if hes giving a person faith in the first place.
The issue I have he would have to give everyone some kind of faith to be able to respond so how can can anyone be totally depraved
Everyone is totally depraved, until God quickens them and gives them the gift of repentance and faith to believe the gospel message. But God only gives that to His elect at some point in their lives, it's not given at birth. And those who don't receive the gift remain dead in their sins and trespasses forever.
this is side tracking Charlie.
Are you saying some unsaved people deserve the gift of faith more than other unsaved people
Or as you put it a one stinking corpse deserves it better than the next stinking corpes
i appreciate your kindness Charlie.
You acknowledged something before as The more people refuse God as they get older the more they distance themselves.
So question Charlie how can they even refuse God if there totally depraved
None of the corpses deserve salvation more than any other one. So man has absolutely nothing to do with who is chosen for salvation and who is left in their sin. That's entirely Gods choice, He does it all from choosing to sustaining throughout the entire journey. That's why God said, salvation is of the Lord. It's not by the will of men, lest anyone boast
Well totally depraved men can do nothing other than to disobey the gospel and reject the gospel. Mankind already lost thew battle, in the garden of Eden. We simply don't have the power to break the curse of sin and it's power over our lives. If we had it within us to do that, then Jesus wouldn't have needed to suffer and die in our place
well there's lots of questions for this Charlie,
But for now I'll just stick to this , how did Cain and able know to bring an offering to the lord, and how was it possible for Cain to be told by God he could rule over sin if you don't have the power to break the curse.
He told Cain if you do what is right you will be accepted after his offering was rejected.
God saw that Cain was gloomy about his offering being rejected and the lord told him if you do what is right you will be accepted.
Then God said sin is crouching at his your door.
Why did God warn him him sin was crouching at his door.
Do you believe Adam was spiritually alive before he fell, its a daft question I know, but don't you have to be made spiritualy alive to be saved.
Surly Adam was saved before he fell yes.
What made Adam worthy of being saved again, as God clothed him and chastised him and punished him but then God remained a family to him and his wife and his children, which means what Charlie, it means That God must have found something worth saving.
So If God found his family worthy of saving after the fall surly that's how he must feel about everyone yes.
So here's the thing Charlie why is everyman given a seed.
so where you just chosen before you where quickened then, is that it
I mean explain what it is you are given first to make you respond.