Can the nonelect ever be born-again? (2 Kings 22:27) With the elect thou wilt be elect: and with the perverse thou wilt be perverted.

[Charlie_2024]

can you also show with the bible that sanctification is instantaneous

Yeah, I see you still think God is under the same restrictions as reprobate men. Remember the two universes, I told you about

 

[Charlie_2024]

the other part makes no sense either what do you mean you don't know your elect when your born.

Are you saying God elected you personaly as soon as you where born
Or After you where born like later on in your life.

Or as soon as you where born

As an Elect Saint of God, I was elected before the world was made, so yeah

 

[Charlie_2024]

I thought nobody was free from the old covenant, only in Christ is the old covenant taken away.

As I understand it the old covenant is for regenerating everyone.

It's all the same, Gods elect Saints are saved by Christ in the old and new covenants. My brothers from the old covenant believed in the coming Messiah and I look back to the time the Messiah was in the world. So it's the same deal for everyone except they looed forward and I look back

 

[Charlie_2024]

Not as, with and In Christ. Now you're just a mocker and scoffer of those in Christ?

I'm free to judge everyone by their fruits, God commanded us to judge everyone. So I'm exercising my God given authority to judge everyone by their fruits.

All I have seen of you is bitter fruits, which an elect Saint of God wouldn't display. As I said, you're welcome to believe whatever you want as everyone will reap what they sow. So I have no bitterness or anger towards anyone, who believes in what I consider to be false doctrine

 

[Charlie_2024]

i KNOW them very well as i see you correct your comment of Christ not actually saying them. The Holy Spirit led Paul to say them.

The fruits of the Spirit is Love the others come after the first.

That's not true, I have to correct you here. When Paul was blinded and asked "who are you Lord" the answer wasn't "The Holy Spirit". The answer was "I am the Lord Jesus Christ, whom you persecute" Then He went on to instruct Paul to proclaim the things He tells him to. There is no mention of the Holy Spirit there.

 

[Charlie_2024]

Not as, with and In Christ. Now you're just a mocker and scoffer of those in Christ?

It would help if you qualified your opinion with some scripture, instead of responding with an emotional reaction. A mature person must poses his vessel, otherwise he is like a boat on a stormy sea without a rudder, and tosses to and fro with every wind of doctrine

 

[Thunderrr-mental]

As an Elect Saint of God, I was elected before the world was made, so yeah

So does God give all peoole the chance to change there destiny whilst there alive,

 

[Thunderrr-mental]

It's all the same, Gods elect Saints are saved by Christ in the old and new covenants. My brothers from the old covenant believed in the coming Messiah and I look back to the time the Messiah was in the world. So it's the same deal for everyone except they looed forward and I look back

in what way where people saved in the old covenant, where they saved by the blood of Jesus

 

[Thunderrr-mental]

Yeah, I see you still think God is under the same restrictions as reprobate men. Remember the two universes, I told you about

no I'm asking you to show scripture where sanctification is instantaneous, in the hope you will see it's progressive

 

[Thunderrr-mental]

The bible does say that "for all have sinned" go read the bible man. You act like you know nothing

well you said all elect people are born a pagan what does that mean Charlie

 

[Thunderrr-mental]

It's all the same, Gods elect Saints are saved by Christ in the old and new covenants. My brothers from the old covenant believed in the coming Messiah and I look back to the time the Messiah was in the world. So it's the same deal for everyone except they looed forward and I look back

is there any living person who is free from the old covenant before Christ, and what is the purpose of the old covenant

 

[rogerg]

That price was paid for all when Jesus said

"It is Finished." John 19:30. The Debt was paid in full: all past, Present, and Future debt. As people come into existence each day, they are Born in Sin and shaped into iniquity. Yet the Blood of Jesus is not without effect for all.

I think I perceive this point differently than you do. As I see it, if Christ's death paid the debt in full for all (as you said above), yet, in spite of that payment, all still do not become saved, I do not think of itself that would qualify Christ to be the Saviour. To be the Saviour - and as the title implies - everyone for whom He has paid the debt, they, and they alone, without exception, must eventually become saved fully and completely, nothing remaining on their part either to obtain or effectuate it - hence the title of Saviour. In addition to the paying of the debt, as Saviour, He also must make it so that those saved can never commit spiritual sin again. This He did by taking them, upon becoming saved, from under the law of sin and death and placing them under the law of life. And because He alone fully achieved and satisfied all of this on our behalf, we can know beyond doubt, that He is truly the Saviour in all of salvation's aspects.

 

[rogerg]

so the general teaching of total depravity from what I've heard from calvinism is people unsaved do not hear God and obey him.

So how did Abraham a pagan hear God and obey him

It is given as a gift from God to His chosen.

[Rom 4:9 KJV] 9 [Cometh] this blessedness then upon the circumcision [only], or upon the uncircumcision also? for we say that faith was reckoned to Abraham for righteousness.

 

[CS1]

I think I perceive this point differently than you do. As I see it, if Christ's death paid the debt in full for all (as you said above), yet, in spite of that payment, all still do not become saved, I do not think of itself that would qualify Christ to be the Saviour. To be the Saviour - and as the title implies - everyone for whom He has paid the debt, they, and they alone, without exception, must eventually become saved fully and completely, nothing remaining on their part either to obtain or effectuate it - hence the title of Saviour. In addition to the paying of the debt, as Saviour, He also must make it so that those saved can never commit spiritual sin again. This He did by taking them, upon becoming saved, from under the law of sin and death and placing them under the law of life. And because He alone fully achieved and satisfied all of this on our behalf, we can know beyond doubt, that He is truly the Saviour in all of salvation's aspects.

Yes, all are not saved. I am not a Unitarian. The point is that Jesus died for all, and all are without excuse. There will be no one on Judgement Day (Great White Throne) who will say to Jesus, "YOU would not save me because you preordained me not to be saved."


I see your point, but I think that comes ( not to say you) from some who have said the Blood of Jesus is somehow wasted for those who reject him if he died for all. If the Love of God was for all, "John 3:16" would mean the death, burial, and resurrection are for all, too. Yet Jesus said men love darkness.

 

[Thunderrr-mental]

It is given as a gift from God to His chosen.

[Rom 4:9 KJV] 9 [Cometh] this blessedness then upon the circumcision [only], or upon the uncircumcision also? for we say that faith was reckoned to Abraham for righteousness.

Is anyone free from the old covenant and what is the purpose of the old covenant

 

[rogerg]

Yes, all are not saved. I am not a Unitarian. The point is that Jesus died for all, and all are without excuse. There will be no one on Judgement Day (Great White Throne) who will say to Jesus, "YOU would not save me because you preordained me not to be saved."

If Jesus died for all then must not all must become saved? Were it otherwise, how then could He wear the title of Saviour in that to become saved and the Saviour are inexorably bound together? I don't think it possible that someone can have their sins paid and then not become saved because both are given through Christ, not of themselves.

[Rom 5:19 KJV] 19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

I see your point, but I think that comes ( not to say you) from some who have said the Blood of Jesus is somehow wasted for those who reject him if he died for all. If the Love of God was for all, "John 3:16" would mean the death, burial, and resurrection are for all, too. Yet Jesus said men love darkness.

I believe that in becoming saved (and not until and unless becoming saved), do we lose our love of darkness; that is, it is all by/from Christ's salvation.

[1Pe 2:9 KJV] 9 But ye [are] a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:

[Luk 1:77 KJV] 77 To give knowledge of salvation unto his people by the remission of their sins,

 

[Thunderrr-mental]

It is given as a gift from God to His chosen.

[Rom 4:9 KJV] 9 [Cometh] this blessedness then upon the circumcision [only], or upon the uncircumcision also? for we say that faith was reckoned to Abraham for righteousness.

how did Abraham the pagan hear God

Why is all man given a seed

 

[CS1]

If Jesus died for all then must not all must become saved? Were it otherwise, how then could He wear the title of Saviour in that to become saved and the Saviour are inexorably bound together? I don't think it possible that someone can have their sins paid and then not become saved because both are given through Christ, not of themselves.

[Rom 5:19 KJV] 19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.



I believe that in becoming saved (and not until and unless becoming saved), do we lose our love of darkness; that is, it is all by/from Christ's salvation.

[1Pe 2:9 KJV] 9 But ye [are] a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:

[Luk 1:77 KJV] 77 To give knowledge of salvation unto his people by the remission of their sins,

I would ask you about first Peter 2:9 Is Peter speaking to those who are already saved? And if so they are the elect; what was the meaning of this in 2 Peter 1:10-11

10 Therefore, brethren, be even more diligent to make your call and election sure, for if you do these things you will never stumble; 11 for so an entrance will be supplied to you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

19 And so we have the prophetic word confirmed, which you do well to heed as a light that shines in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star rises in your hearts; 20 knowing this first, that no prophecy of Scripture is of any private interpretation, 21 for prophecy never came by the will of man, but holy men of God spoke as they were moved by the Holy Spirit.

 

[Charlie_2024]

So does God give all peoole the chance to change there destiny whilst there alive,

God doesn't leave anything to chance, so He either saves you or He leaves you in your sin.

 

[Charlie_2024]

in what way where people saved in the old covenant, where they saved by the blood of Jesus

Every single saved person is saved by the blood of Christ, for there is no other way. Those under the old covenant put their faith and trust in Jesus to atone for their sin.

They claimed the future promise of the coming Messiah, and were justified by what He would do on the cross in the future. remember everything in the future is already a done deal with God.

He's not bound by time and space, He is separate from His creation. He sees the whole of time from the begging to the end, in a moment.