Predestination is misunderstood...
- Thread starter Genez
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
The exhaustive divine pre-determinist idea of Goodness, because no one is perfectly good but God, is to think up all kinds of tortures that can be done on women, children, babies, animals, and men, and then to create a world where a whole litany of those terrors are scripted by the only really Good One to be executed on and by the creatures made, most of whom the Good One has destined from the beginning to be tormented in fire forever for doing the things he designed and designated them for. That's not a high bar for me to achieve, to be better than the perfectly Good One of your religion. Your imagined creator is nothing like Jesus.
I have a much more kind, compassionate, loving, guileless and worship-worthy Creator to serve than yours.. My Creator looks more like Jesus Christ than yours, who sounds more like the being we call satan.
I have a much more kind, compassionate, loving, guileless and worship-worthy Creator to serve than yours.. My Creator looks more like Jesus Christ than yours, who sounds more like the being we call satan.
This is ironic.
Someone makes an absolutist claim that scripture does not state outright, but the poster has inferred from the wording of a certain English translation of the Bible.
I am providing a different possible interpretation of Gen 3 using the Hebrew text that counters that person's absolutist claim.
You join in to make the same absolutist claim without having that interpretation specifically stated in the text, even in the English text, and you accuse me of over reaching because I merely suggested that there is at least one alternative interpretation that does not support your and the original poster's inferences.
And in your mind, I am the dogmatist for suggesting ideas that are not clearly stated in the text could be the case and change our conclusions re what happened; and you are the reasonable one sticking only to the text while adding your ideas to the text that are not there.
Someone makes an absolutist claim that scripture does not state outright, but the poster has inferred from the wording of a certain English translation of the Bible.
I am providing a different possible interpretation of Gen 3 using the Hebrew text that counters that person's absolutist claim.
You join in to make the same absolutist claim without having that interpretation specifically stated in the text, even in the English text, and you accuse me of over reaching because I merely suggested that there is at least one alternative interpretation that does not support your and the original poster's inferences.
And in your mind, I am the dogmatist for suggesting ideas that are not clearly stated in the text could be the case and change our conclusions re what happened; and you are the reasonable one sticking only to the text while adding your ideas to the text that are not there.
-
1
-
1
- Show all
A Rabbi has told me the tree of gnosis of good and evil was actually the tree of life. Depending on somethings, it was probably a tree of lifegiving, but it is meant to prevent death. That is the consequences for mankind not being able to keep his eyes shut. The punishment is harsh, but having no sight may have been worse.
I gave a couple of examples when you asked, of where you go beyond what Scripture plainly states. So your pretense of repenting of doing such was just that. A pretense. I should have known. You will not even admit what Scripture actually says. Which is that if Adam and Eve had eaten from the Tree of Life, they would have lived forever. No, you just skip over that like it is not even there. Instead you pretend that is not there, and that deliberate omission of what is explicitly stated in the text is the only thing that props up your alternative view.
So much for irony.
So much for irony.
That would mean the "and" in Gen. 2:9 could be translated as "even".
i.e. that "The tree of life was in the midst of the garden, and the tree of the knowledge of good and evil" could be "The tree of life was in the midst of the garden, even the tree of the knowledge of good and evil."
Does this rabbi have other examples where Wa- means "even" ?
Gen 19:4 says "But before they lay down the men of the city, even the men of Sodom, compassed round the house..."
here the sense of "even" is conveyed simply bu apposition of the men of the city, the men of sodom.
If Genesis 2: 9 meant the tree of life was the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, it could have said :" The tree of life, the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, was in the midst of the garden."
The same with Gen 19:9 "And they pressed sore upon the man, even Lot."
The same with Gen. 21:10 "The son of this bondwoman shall not be heir with my son, even with Isaac."
Likewise, Gen. 23:7, and 23:10, and 26:28, and Gen 46:18, and 47:21, and 49:22, and Ex. 3:1....
i.e. that "The tree of life was in the midst of the garden, and the tree of the knowledge of good and evil" could be "The tree of life was in the midst of the garden, even the tree of the knowledge of good and evil."
Does this rabbi have other examples where Wa- means "even" ?
Gen 19:4 says "But before they lay down the men of the city, even the men of Sodom, compassed round the house..."
here the sense of "even" is conveyed simply bu apposition of the men of the city, the men of sodom.
If Genesis 2: 9 meant the tree of life was the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, it could have said :" The tree of life, the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, was in the midst of the garden."
The same with Gen 19:9 "And they pressed sore upon the man, even Lot."
The same with Gen. 21:10 "The son of this bondwoman shall not be heir with my son, even with Isaac."
Likewise, Gen. 23:7, and 23:10, and 26:28, and Gen 46:18, and 47:21, and 49:22, and Ex. 3:1....
-
1
- Show all
But the scripture does not say "what you claim it says, "If Adam and Eve had eaten from the Tree of Life, they would have lived forever."
It is quite possible that I have breached my principles at some point and noy done what I have advocated to others. I am imperfect. I asked for an example of that so that I could repent if necessary. You provided an example where I did not do what you alleged. So, I don't need to repent in that case. What was yur second alleged case?
It is quite possible that I have breached my principles at some point and noy done what I have advocated to others. I am imperfect. I asked for an example of that so that I could repent if necessary. You provided an example where I did not do what you alleged. So, I don't need to repent in that case. What was yur second alleged case?
I did just notice that God planted for Adam and Eve in the garden every tree that is pleasant to the sight and good for food. So the only added quality to those of all the other trees offered by the serpent was "it will make you wise." Is knowing both good and evil, by doing them both, necessary to be wise?
Romans 1:16 tells us that the gospel of Christ is the power of God unto salvation to every one who believes ... iow, it's not the faith of the one who believes that brings salvation, it is the gospel of Christ which is the power of God unto salvation.
Folks who throw up the strawman that faith is some sort of "work in which they can boast" do not understand faith ... nor do they understand the power of gospel of Christ. (and I know you know this.)
Romans 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it [the gospel of Christ] is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
.
Folks who throw up the strawman that faith is some sort of "work in which they can boast" do not understand faith ... nor do they understand the power of gospel of Christ. (and I know you know this.)
Romans 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it [the gospel of Christ] is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
.
