Can the nonelect ever be born-again? (2 Kings 22:27) With the elect thou wilt be elect: and with the perverse thou wilt be perverted.

[Thunderrr-mental]

Belief in which Christ?

The demons believed in Christ and they trembled but are not saved. The JW's, Mormons and Muslims believe in Christ but their Christ is not the Lord Jesus Christ of Holy Scripture and unless God grants a person grace to believe in this Christ they are not yet saved.

Did Christ come to make salvation possible or did He come to secure salvation for His people?

your intelligence is outstanding.

 

[CS1]

Belief in which Christ?

The demons believed in Christ and they trembled but are not saved. The JW's, Mormons and Muslims believe in Christ but their Christ is not the Lord Jesus Christ of Holy Scripture and unless God grants a person grace to believe in this Christ they are not yet saved.

Did Christ come to make salvation possible or did He come to secure salvation for His people?

You can read? The Lord Jesus Christ.

FYI Mormons/Muslims and JW don't call themselves Christian's and deny the deity of Christ. stop ignoring the word of God that was proved that answered your question Found in John 3:16-18 and Romans chapter 10:9-11

Context

 

[Charlie_2024]

i have a couple of questions for you

Why call depravity total depravity, why not just say depraved.

Or why call atonement limited atonement why not just call it atonement.

Then why is it the elect think there saved above everyone else when they to must endure until the end.

Good questions,

The Bible does teach that fallen man, is unable to come to a place of repentance because of his depravity. So the fact that man is unable to repent, unless God grants him repentance means that he is totally depraved. Man simply doesn't have the desire to forsake his life of sin, because he loves it too much to willingly give it up.

We could call atonement, atonement instead of limited atonement if Jesus atoned for everyone. But He said He came to atone for those which His Father gave Him. Jesus never said I've come to save everyone, He said He came as a sword to pit son against father and mother against daughter. He came to divide the world.

The elect don't endure to the end by their own power, it is God the Holy Spirit who keeps us from falling away.

1 John 2:19 says,

They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us; but they went out that they might be made manifest, that none of them were of us.

This verse shows that the false Christians are exposed because they don't endure, they eventually get sick of pretending. But the true believers are kept on the right path by the Holy Spirit and they never fall away.

 

[Charlie_2024]

Christian means follower of Christ or Christ-like. Hilter is far from that by his actions. That should be easy to decern. I told you Jesus is Lord of my Life, and I was saved by Grace through faith. I identify with Christ. The Lord Jesus Christ is not a "basket case. " He is the only way of Salvation. Do you deny that?

I told you all kinds of evil people identify as Christians, but identifying ones self as Christian doesn't make them one. They mut bare the fruits that Christ spoke about, if not then Jesus doesn't believe they are genuine Christians, even if the whole world is fooled by them.

 

[CS1]

I told you all kinds of evil people identify as Christians, but identifying ones self as Christian doesn't make them one. They mut bare the fruits that Christ spoke about, if not then Jesus doesn't believe they are genuine Christians, even if the whole world is fooled by them.

what are the fruits? Where did Christ speak of them?

 

[Charlie_2024]

here's another question Charlie


Timothy 2:3-10

New International Version



3 Join with me in suffering, like a good soldier of Christ Jesus. 4 No one serving as a soldier gets entangled in civilian affairs, but rather tries to please his commanding officer. 5 Similarly, anyone who competes as an athlete does not receive the victor’s crown except by competing according to the rules. 6 The hardworking farmer should be the first to receive a share of the crops. 7 Reflect on what I am saying, for the Lord will give you insight into all this.
8 Remember Jesus Christ, raised from the dead, descended from David. This is my gospel, 9 for which I am suffering even to the point of being chained like a criminal. But God’s word is not chained. 10 Therefore I endure everything for the sake of the elect, that they too may obtain the salvation that is in Christ Jesus, with eternal glory.



See here Charlie its saying that even the elect must compete by the rules to obtain salvation

but your saying the elect have already obtained salvation.

notice Charlie it says that they to may obtain salvation.

notice it doesn't say the elect have obtained salvation already .

I don't recognize the NIV bible as an accurate translation, but none the less. Nobody claimed that the elect would be born as finished products. The fact is, nothing can stop us from finishing the race and claiming the prize. So in Gods eyes it's a done deal but in our narrow little view we still have to run the race.

The main thing is every single one of Gods Elect is already saved according to God, so it really doesn't matter what anyone else says

 

[Charlie_2024]

Look in the mirror, guy. We have turned the other cheek many times, yet as an adult, you have not displaced much fruit yourself.



Look in the mirror, guy. You have not displayed much fruit yourself. LOL, humility? You just can't handle receiving what you have sown to so many here. As I told you before, You do not affirm my faith in the Lord or anyone here. You are just mad that people disagree with you. Then you call them hilter and make sexual abuse claims to like them, too. Again, I identify with Christ, who saved me. If you do not, that is between you and Him.

We live in the modern age, where everyone is free to identify as anything or anyone they wish. Nobody is allowed to discriminate against people based on their identity.

I'm not depriving you of your liberty to identify as whatever you wish to identify as. I was making the point that all kinds of people identify as Christian, I don't know if they are genuine or false. Only God knows who's true and who the Judas Iscariots are.

We both have very different ideas what constitutes a Christians, I believe the differences are irreconcilable as we hold to extremely different views and interpretations of scripture. I don't know you and you don't know me, but God knows us and He is the One we ought to worry about.

 

[Charlie_2024]

Gos is Spirit. Can he who made the mouth not speak? Did the spirit that scripture reports as suggesting to God that it would become a lying spirit in the mouth of the prophets to deceive the king into going to war, not really speak? You seem to react to posts without thinking through your responses and considering whether they conflict with other scriptures.

God is a Spirit, He doesn't have a mouth so they only way we know what He said is by His Prophets and when He came into the world as Jesus Christ.
Now the last time he used a voice to speak was 2000 years ago. We haven't had any prophets since Bible times, as God has nothing more to say. He said what He wanted to say, then He chose to be silent for the past 2000 years. So if anyone tells you God spoke to them, you know your speaking with a mentally ill person.

 

[Charlie_2024]

what are the fruits? Where did Christ speak of them?

Jesus did say it by proxy, that's if you believe that Jesus is Jehovah God and if you believe that all scripture is God breathed.

Galatians 5:22-25

But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control. Against such there is no law. And those who are Christ's have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.

I'm surprised you never knew about these verses

 

[Charlie_2024]

That was spoken to Apostles and nobody else. They died 2000 years ago and no other Apostles ever existed before or after. So again, you have plucked unrelated verses out to support your unbiblical theology

Gods Word is not funny

 

[Thunderrr-mental]

Good questions,

The Bible does teach that fallen man, is unable to come to a place of repentance because of his depravity. So the fact that man is unable to repent, unless God grants him repentance means that he is totally depraved. Man simply doesn't have the desire to forsake his life of sin, because he loves it too much to willingly give it up.

We could call atonement, atonement instead of limited atonement if Jesus atoned for everyone. But He said He came to atone for those which His Father gave Him. Jesus never said I've come to save everyone, He said He came as a sword to pit son against father and mother against daughter. He came to divide the world.

The elect don't endure to the end by their own power, it is God the Holy Spirit who keeps us from falling away.

1 John 2:19 says,

They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us; but they went out that they might be made manifest, that none of them were of us.

This verse shows that the false Christians are exposed because they don't endure, they eventually get sick of pretending. But the true believers are kept on the right path by the Holy Spirit and they never fall away.

so the general teaching of total depravity from what I've heard from calvinism is people unsaved do not hear God and obey him.

So how did Abraham a pagan hear God and obey him

 

[Charlie_2024]

so the general teaching of total depravity from what I've heard from calvinism is people unsaved do not hear God and obey him.

So how did Abraham a pagan hear God and obey him

All of Gods elect are born pagan, but at some point He regenerates us, sanctifies us and transforms us into the Image of His Son.

So again, we have two parallel realities and views, one is ours and the other is the Lords. We don't know we're elect when we're born. That becomes apparent after god does His work on us, while He leaves other condemned in their sin.

 

[Thunderrr-mental]

All of Gods elect are born pagan, but at some point He regenerates us, sanctifies us and transforms us into the Image of His Son.

So again, we have two parallel realities and views, one is ours and the other is the Lords. We don't know we're elect when we're born. That becomes apparent after god does His work on us, while He leaves other condemned in their sin.

the argument I heard from calvinism on the bases of total depravity is man who is unsaved is not able to hear God and obey him.

So how did Abraham the pagan hear him

 

[Thunderrr-mental]

All of Gods elect are born pagan, but at some point He regenerates us, sanctifies us and transforms us into the Image of His Son.

So again, we have two parallel realities and views, one is ours and the other is the Lords. We don't know we're elect when we're born. That becomes apparent after god does His work on us, while He leaves other condemned in their sin.

you'll have to explain why man is born a sinner with the bible, that' would be good instead of saying man is born a pagan

 

[Thunderrr-mental]

All of Gods elect are born pagan, but at some point He regenerates us, sanctifies us and transforms us into the Image of His Son.

So again, we have two parallel realities and views, one is ours and the other is the Lords. We don't know we're elect when we're born. That becomes apparent after god does His work on us, while He leaves other condemned in their sin.

can you also show with the bible that sanctification is instantaneous

 

[Thunderrr-mental]

All of Gods elect are born pagan, but at some point He regenerates us, sanctifies us and transforms us into the Image of His Son.

So again, we have two parallel realities and views, one is ours and the other is the Lords. We don't know we're elect when we're born. That becomes apparent after god does His work on us, while He leaves other condemned in their sin.

the other part makes no sense either what do you mean you don't know your elect when your born.

Are you saying God elected you personaly as soon as you where born
Or After you where born like later on in your life.

Or as soon as you where born

 

[Thunderrr-mental]

All of Gods elect are born pagan, but at some point He regenerates us, sanctifies us and transforms us into the Image of His Son.

So again, we have two parallel realities and views, one is ours and the other is the Lords. We don't know we're elect when we're born. That becomes apparent after god does His work on us, while He leaves other condemned in their sin.

I thought nobody was free from the old covenant, only in Christ is the old covenant taken away.

As I understand it the old covenant is for regenerating everyone.

 

[CS1]

We live in the modern age, where everyone is free to identify as anything or anyone they wish. Nobody is allowed to discriminate against people based on their identity.

I'm not depriving you of your liberty to identify as whatever you wish to identify as. I was making the point that all kinds of people identify as Christian, I don't know if they are genuine or false. Only God knows who's true and who the Judas Iscariots are.

We both have very different ideas what constitutes a Christians, I believe the differences are irreconcilable as we hold to extremely different views and interpretations of scripture. I don't know you and you don't know me, but God knows us and He is the One we ought to worry about.

Not as, with and In Christ. Now you're just a mocker and scoffer of those in Christ?

 

[CS1]

Jesus did say it by proxy, that's if you believe that Jesus is Jehovah God and if you believe that all scripture is God breathed.

Galatians 5:22-25

But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control. Against such there is no law. And those who are Christ's have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.

I'm surprised you never knew about these verses

i KNOW them very well as i see you correct your comment of Christ not actually saying them. The Holy Spirit led Paul to say them.

The fruits of the Spirit is Love the others come after the first.

 

[Charlie_2024]

you'll have to explain why man is born a sinner with the bible, that' would be good instead of saying man is born a pagan

The bible does say that "for all have sinned" go read the bible man. You act like you know nothing