Who is receiving the Spirit?

[wattie]

I believe this is a question that will clear up a lot of confusion about the Holy Spirit's work in an individual and a local church as a corporate gathering.

When a whole group is empowered, or receives the Spirit.. this is not usually about the people in this group getting converted. So, if someone 'believes' then they are eternally saved.. and then scriptures says.. when they were gathered with a group and 'they' received the Holy Spirit.. this is where the confusion comes in. People think the person hasn't received the Holy Spirit yet.

But the group they were with hadn't received the Holy Spirit. This is a different work of the Holy Spirit. Not the same thing.

So Acts 19-

This group of people who were disciples that BELIEVED THROUGH GRACE.. hadn't 'received the Holy Spirit'. This is what Paul had noticed when asking them about their baptism.

Paul asked -- 'Had they received the Spirit since they believed'-- to the whole group.

The assumption is they believed. They were also disciples. They had already also been baptised.

Not knowing whether there is a Holy Spirit.. does not HAVE to mean they weren't already indwelt by the Holy Spirit.

So here is the distinction that we need to work out..

Who is receiving the Spirit? An individual.. or a group?

This will clear up a lot of confusion about baptism and salvation.

Another example is the Galatians being asked if they received the Spirit by works of the law or hearing of faith?

We assume this is talking about salvation, conversion. But who is Paul writing to?

Churches. Entire corporate gatherings. So is it an individual getting saved in question.. or a church having the Holy Spirit come 'in their midst'?

 

[Nehemiah6]

Who is receiving the Spirit? An individual.. or a group? This will clear up a lot of confusion about baptism and salvation.

The Holy Spirit is never given as a gift to a group of people. The gift of the Holy Spirit (being baptized WITH the Holy Ghost) is for each individual who repents and believes. If everyone in that group has done this, then they all possess the Holy Spirit. And the gift of the Holy Spirit is a part of salvation. Water baptism follows salvation,

 

[Wansvic]

I believe this is a question that will clear up a lot of confusion about the Holy Spirit's work in an individual and a local church as a corporate gathering.

When a whole group is empowered, or receives the Spirit.. this is not usually about the people in this group getting converted. So, if someone 'believes' then they are eternally saved.. and then scriptures says.. when they were gathered with a group and 'they' received the Holy Spirit.. this is where the confusion comes in. People think the person hasn't received the Holy Spirit yet.

But the group they were with hadn't received the Holy Spirit. This is a different work of the Holy Spirit. Not the same thing.

So Acts 19-

This group of people who were disciples that BELIEVED THROUGH GRACE.. hadn't 'received the Holy Spirit'. This is what Paul had noticed when asking them about their baptism.

Paul asked -- 'Had they received the Spirit since they believed'-- to the whole group.

The assumption is they believed. They were also disciples. They had already also been baptised.

Not knowing whether there is a Holy Spirit.. does not HAVE to mean they weren't already indwelt by the Holy Spirit.

So here is the distinction that we need to work out..

Who is receiving the Spirit? An individual.. or a group?

This will clear up a lot of confusion about baptism and salvation.

Another example is the Galatians being asked if they received the Spirit by works of the law or hearing of faith?

We assume this is talking about salvation, conversion. But who is Paul writing to?

Churches. Entire corporate gatherings. So is it an individual getting saved in question.. or a church having the Holy Spirit come 'in their midst'?

All individuals are to receive the Holy Ghost. We see this expressed in the following scriptures:

"Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call. (meaning all individuals)" Acts 2:28-39

Jesus said to ask for the Holy Ghost. (Luke 11:13) His comment indicates their are those who do not automatically receive the Holy Ghost. If that is the case the individual should pray in order to receive.

Paul also made it clear that everyone must receive the Holy Ghost in order to be saved. (Romans 8:9)

 

[Pilgrimshope]

I believe this is a question that will clear up a lot of confusion about the Holy Spirit's work in an individual and a local church as a corporate gathering.

When a whole group is empowered, or receives the Spirit.. this is not usually about the people in this group getting converted. So, if someone 'believes' then they are eternally saved.. and then scriptures says.. when they were gathered with a group and 'they' received the Holy Spirit.. this is where the confusion comes in. People think the person hasn't received the Holy Spirit yet.

But the group they were with hadn't received the Holy Spirit. This is a different work of the Holy Spirit. Not the same thing.

So Acts 19-

This group of people who were disciples that BELIEVED THROUGH GRACE.. hadn't 'received the Holy Spirit'. This is what Paul had noticed when asking them about their baptism.

Paul asked -- 'Had they received the Spirit since they believed'-- to the whole group.

The assumption is they believed. They were also disciples. They had already also been baptised.

Not knowing whether there is a Holy Spirit.. does not HAVE to mean they weren't already indwelt by the Holy Spirit.

So here is the distinction that we need to work out..

Who is receiving the Spirit? An individual.. or a group?

This will clear up a lot of confusion about baptism and salvation.

Another example is the Galatians being asked if they received the Spirit by works of the law or hearing of faith?

We assume this is talking about salvation, conversion. But who is Paul writing to?

Churches. Entire corporate gatherings. So is it an individual getting saved in question.. or a church having the Holy Spirit come 'in their midst'?

“Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and

ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation. Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭2:38-41‬ ‭

 

[wattie]

The Holy Spirit is never given as a gift to a group of people. The gift of the Holy Spirit (being baptized WITH the Holy Ghost) is for each individual who repents and believes. If everyone in that group has done this, then they all possess the Holy Spirit. And the gift of the Holy Spirit is a part of salvation. Water baptism follows salvation,

The Holy Spirit dwells 'in the midst' of a local church assembly. This is what I mean. The other work of the Holy Spirit. In Matthew 18, this is what was happening with the process of discipline in the local church. Jesus was 'in the midst' of them through the Holy Spirit.

 

[wattie]

All individuals are to receive the Holy Ghost. We see this expressed in the following scriptures:

"Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call. (meaning all individuals)" Acts 2:28-39

Jesus said to ask for the Holy Ghost. (Luke 11:13) His comment indicates their are those who do not automatically receive the Holy Ghost. If that is the case the individual should pray in order to receive.

Paul also made it clear that everyone must receive the Holy Ghost in order to be saved. (Romans 8:9)

Again, when you are baptised 'for' the remission of sins.. this can mean being given something because you already have it. The Greek word 'eis' can be interpreted to be baptism to get remission.. but in light of the many many other verses that have believing and receiving without baptism.. then being baptised 'for' the remission of sins that has already happened makes more sense.

Have a read of GotQuestions on this one: https://www.gotquestions.org/baptism-Acts-2-38.html

 

[Wansvic]

Again, when you are baptised 'for' the remission of sins.. this can mean being given something because you already have it. The Greek word 'eis' can be interpreted to be baptism to get remission.. but in light of the many many other verses that have believing and receiving without baptism.. then being baptised 'for' the remission of sins that has already happened makes more sense.

Have a read of GotQuestions on this one: https://www.gotquestions.org/baptism-Acts-2-38.html

I shared it as it relates to your question concerning receiving the Holy Ghost. It makes the point that everyone is to personally receive the Holy Ghost.

"Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call. (meaning all individuals)" Acts 2:28-39

 

[ResidentAlien]

I wary of threads that start with, "this will clear up a lot of confusion."

 

[wattie]

I wary of threads that start with, "this will clear up a lot of confusion."

It's really just about keeping context in mind rather than a verse alone when looking at scripture.

 

[wattie]

I shared it as it relates to your question concerning receiving the Holy Ghost. It makes the point that everyone is to personally receive the Holy Ghost.

"Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call. (meaning all individuals)" Acts 2:28-39

Well then it comes down to what gift is being received. They could have all got baptised and then the Holy Spirit dwelt amongst them 'in their midst '.

The other way to look at it.. is the baptism conditional on the receiving?

Because it isn't in plenty of other places.

The negative of this verse is not necessarily true of 'don't get baptized and you won't receive the Holy Spirit '

 

[Blade]

I believe this is a question that will clear up a lot of confusion about the Holy Spirit's work in an individual and a local church as a corporate gathering.

When a whole group is empowered, or receives the Spirit.. this is not usually about the people in this group getting converted. So, if someone 'believes' then they are eternally saved.. and then scriptures says.. when they were gathered with a group and 'they' received the Holy Spirit.. this is where the confusion comes in. People think the person hasn't received the Holy Spirit yet.

But the group they were with hadn't received the Holy Spirit. This is a different work of the Holy Spirit. Not the same thing.

So Acts 19-

This group of people who were disciples that BELIEVED THROUGH GRACE.. hadn't 'received the Holy Spirit'. This is what Paul had noticed when asking them about their baptism.

Paul asked -- 'Had they received the Spirit since they believed'-- to the whole group.

The assumption is they believed. They were also disciples. They had already also been baptised.

Not knowing whether there is a Holy Spirit.. does not HAVE to mean they weren't already indwelt by the Holy Spirit.

So here is the distinction that we need to work out..

Who is receiving the Spirit? An individual.. or a group?

This will clear up a lot of confusion about baptism and salvation.

Another example is the Galatians being asked if they received the Spirit by works of the law or hearing of faith?

We assume this is talking about salvation, conversion. But who is Paul writing to?

Churches. Entire corporate gatherings. So is it an individual getting saved in question.. or a church having the Holy Spirit come 'in their midst'?

"he said [and] to them, if Spirit Holy did you receive, having believed? " I've never had to question this. Its clear they were saved but never heard of the holy Spirit. What happened to the 120 which happened to everyone in there. Then they come out as if drunk then Peter by the sweet sweet holy Spirit shares.. "Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit." It's not originally written "spirit". It is Holy Sprit.

When Christ went up were the 12/120 saved? Yes were they all filled with the holy Spirit? No. Christ told them to wait for the promise. He said as long as I am here the holy Spirit will not come. So were they after Christ rose and then stayed 40 more days were they saved? Duh yes. But not filled with the holy Spirit. There is a difference in ones life after being filled/baptized. See He said "But you shall receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you; and you shall be witnesses to Me in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the end of the earth.”

Again He said He will give the holy Spirit to them that ask. Its not some group thing. Those tongues of fire came over each one of them. He told us.. we know how to give good "gifts" to our children how much more is our Father then us? God said He will give the holy spirit to them that ask. I could careless what any man says about this. Father give me the holy Spirit.. THANK YOU Father.. for always keeping your word. Its walking living by faith. He said it you don't see it you don't feel it.. you know He did it.

 

[CS1]

interesting responses

 

[Nehemiah6]

I wary of threads that start with, "this will clear up a lot of confusion."

And actually this statement adds to the confusion:
1. When a whole group is empowered -- a whole group cannot be empowered unless each individual in that group has the Holy Spirit already

2. ...or receives the Spirit -- this quite different, since once again each individual receives the Spirit as a gift and this is not about empowerment

3, this is not usually about the people in this group getting converted -- receiving the Spirit goes hand-in-hand with conversion

 

[CS1]

And actually this statement adds to the confusion:
1. When a whole group is empowered -- a whole group cannot be empowered unless each individual in that group has the Holy Spirit already

2. ...or receives the Spirit -- this quite different, since once again each individual receives the Spirit as a gift and this is not about empowerment

3, this is not usually about the people in this group getting converted -- receiving the Spirit goes hand-in-hand with conversion

I guess my qestion is:

The empowerment of the Holy Spirit that Jesus talked about in Acts 1:8 was to people who were saved already?

Then after the day of pentacost, The empowerment of the Holy Spirit happened at the same time or after salvation?

 

[Nehemiah6]

I guess my qestion is: The empowerment of the Holy Spirit that Jesus talked about in Acts 1:8 was to people who were saved already?

That is correct,

Then after the day of pentacost, The empowerment of the Holy Spirit happened at the same time or after salvation?

It will be more biblical to speak of being "filled" with the Spirit. But that happens only after salvation and having received the gift of the Holy Spirit. We have an example in Acts 4:31: And when they had prayed, the place was shaken where they were assembled together; and they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and they spake the word of God with boldness.

This is not something that happens today. That was a unique situation, and is followed with this: And the multitude of them that believed were of one heart and of one soul: neither said any of them that ought of the things which he possessed was his own; but they had all things common.... Neither was there any among them that lacked: for as many as were possessors of lands or houses sold them, and brought the prices of the things that were sold, And laid them down at the apostles' feet: and distribution was made unto every man according as he had need. (Acts 4:32-35)

 

[CS1]

That is correct,
It will be more biblical to speak of being "filled" with the Spirit. But that happens only after salvation and having received the gift of the Holy Spirit. We have an example in Acts 4:31: And when they had prayed, the place was shaken where they were assembled together; and they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and they spake the word of God with boldness.

This is not something that happens today. That was a unique situation, and is followed with this: And the multitude of them that believed were of one heart and of one soul: neither said any of them that ought of the things which he possessed was his own; but they had all things common.... Neither was there any among them that lacked: for as many as were possessors of lands or houses sold them, and brought the prices of the things that were sold, And laid them down at the apostles' feet: and distribution was made unto every man according as he had need. (Acts 4:32-35)

Thank you for your response.

 

[wattie]

And actually this statement adds to the confusion:
1. When a whole group is empowered -- a whole group cannot be empowered unless each individual in that group has the Holy Spirit already

2. ...or receives the Spirit -- this quite different, since once again each individual receives the Spirit as a gift and this is not about empowerment

3, this is not usually about the people in this group getting converted -- receiving the Spirit goes hand-in-hand with conversion

Well.. if Jesus dwells in the midst of a group of believers, a church, how is this presence received?

 

[Nehemiah6]

Well.. if Jesus dwells in the midst of a group of believers, a church, how is this presence received?

Spiritually.

 

[Edify]

We should be careful in saying something that happen in the early church no longer happens. This is nowhere in the NT.
This can also say God is a respector of persons by not giving the Baptism in/of the Holy Spirit to the rest of His church.
The real reason many do not have this baptism is unbelief. If you don't believe/ want it, God isn't going to force it on you.
The promise of God given by the prophet Joel came to pass in Acts 2, but it is still coming to pass today, because it's for all believers.

 

[wattie]

Spiritually.

Right. So.. are you saying the 'in the midst' presence is the same as indwelling or is empowerment?