The Security Of The Believer
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Rather show one biblical quote that shows predestination and election applies to salvation per se.
For those whom He foreknew He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son that He might be the first born among many brethren
, called ... justified ... glorified
even as He chose [elected] us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before Him. He destined us in love to be His sons through Jesus Christ according to the purposes of His will to the praise of His glorious grace which He hath freely bestowed upon us in the Beloved.
This is who we are and what we are. Predestined to be like Jesus and chosen to be a people for the praise of His glorious grace.
You have to trace this doctrine back to it's source which is Abraham. Not counting Christ, Abraham is the first elect one through whom all the families of the earth were to bless themselves ... it passed on through him to Isaac to Jacob [Israel] and his sons.
But they were not the only ones who were saved. They were the instruments through whom salvation came. Lot was not the predestined and chosen one but he was saved. Many were made righteous through their dealings with Abraham and subsequently through the nation of of Israel.
We are predestined and chosen to be the instrument of salvation to the world. A city set upon a hill, not to exclude everyone but as a beacon of hope and succour to the lost, the hungry, those seeking refuge.
That's what Predestination and Election is for.
Do you see how wrong the church [not just Calvin] has got this doctrine?
Arminius also made the mistake Calvin made. He also saw that if we were predestined and elected to salvation then pure logic dictates that God must have bypassed everyone else. So he angrily in effect jettisons the doctrine altogether. This was not wise.
His doctrines concerning human freewill effectually annuls predestination and election, makes it of none effect.
What both should have done was cried to the Lord for a better understanding.
For those whom He foreknew He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son that He might be the first born among many brethren
, called ... justified ... glorified
even as He chose [elected] us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before Him. He destined us in love to be His sons through Jesus Christ according to the purposes of His will to the praise of His glorious grace which He hath freely bestowed upon us in the Beloved.
This is who we are and what we are. Predestined to be like Jesus and chosen to be a people for the praise of His glorious grace.
You have to trace this doctrine back to it's source which is Abraham. Not counting Christ, Abraham is the first elect one through whom all the families of the earth were to bless themselves ... it passed on through him to Isaac to Jacob [Israel] and his sons.
But they were not the only ones who were saved. They were the instruments through whom salvation came. Lot was not the predestined and chosen one but he was saved. Many were made righteous through their dealings with Abraham and subsequently through the nation of of Israel.
We are predestined and chosen to be the instrument of salvation to the world. A city set upon a hill, not to exclude everyone but as a beacon of hope and succour to the lost, the hungry, those seeking refuge.
That's what Predestination and Election is for.
Do you see how wrong the church [not just Calvin] has got this doctrine?
Arminius also made the mistake Calvin made. He also saw that if we were predestined and elected to salvation then pure logic dictates that God must have bypassed everyone else. So he angrily in effect jettisons the doctrine altogether. This was not wise.
His doctrines concerning human freewill effectually annuls predestination and election, makes it of none effect.
What both should have done was cried to the Lord for a better understanding.
Evmur said:
c'mon God's wisdom is exhaustive. He doesn't leave anything to chance.
The fudamental mistake of Calvin and others before and after him is in applying predestination and election to salvation.
Election is unto the church ... it excludes nobody from being saved.
I'm still waiting
c'mon God's wisdom is exhaustive. He doesn't leave anything to chance.
The fudamental mistake of Calvin and others before and after him is in applying predestination and election to salvation.
Election is unto the church ... it excludes nobody from being saved.
I'm still waiting
I love you Pilgrim, do you know that ...
But when I read your posts I know I shall never win an argument with you.
But when I read your posts I know I shall never win an argument with you.
But can I ask are we arguing that you’re trying to win ? Or are we just stating our thoughts on the same subject and they don’t agree as of yet ?
should we really be trying to win arguments I suppose is my thought , that isn’t my intent to argue with you but if I disagree on a matter I’ll just tell you what I think . I don’t necessarily think I’m right usually unless it’s just obvious stuff we all agree on for instance “ Jesus died for our sins and rose the third day “
i know I’m right about that . Often times though my friend I’m just discussing what I think and usually the scriptures why I think it the best I can in my very unprofessional and flawed way . But it’s never meant to argue and win any competition just like to discuss the Bible and hear thoughts of others .
If I disagree with some things and do t see anything to learn on it …. I still can learn from other things even if the same person is saying it
only hear for this purpose to speak freely and listen to other speaking freely about thier own thoughts
I don’t really know what to tell ya brother but I love you too and don’t recall ever winning any arguments against you either hahaha
Can’t remember really winning any argument with any person here to be honest had lots of mutually productive discussions though some of those with you
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I'm serious ... folks are saying salvation is the result of God's predetermination and election and therefore all others He must have pre=planned to damn.
This is a presumption on Calvin's part [and incidentally what Arminius believed pre-destiny must mean] I think it is outrageous and ghastly and almost all Christians in their guts feel it can't be so.
There IS no scripture for it.
Now I totally believe in predestination and election to me they are priceless doctrines, precious beyond words.
Let me tell you the story of it.
Calvin used to give lectures to his students after which they were invited to ask the great man questions and one student posed the question "if God has predestined some to be saved, must He not also have predestined those others to be damned?"
History records that the question threw Calvin and he hesitated a very long time before he very reluctantly had to agree that logically this must be so.
It's an assumption, there is no scripture
Arminius must have thought so too for it made him so angry that he threw out the whole kaboodle, the precious and the vile. His doctrine of human freewill which is thousands of times worse practically cancels out predestination and election.
The answer is as the scriptures themselves say we are predestined and elected unto the blessing, to be the people of God, the church.
It's not about salvation.
This is a presumption on Calvin's part [and incidentally what Arminius believed pre-destiny must mean] I think it is outrageous and ghastly and almost all Christians in their guts feel it can't be so.
There IS no scripture for it.
Now I totally believe in predestination and election to me they are priceless doctrines, precious beyond words.
Let me tell you the story of it.
Calvin used to give lectures to his students after which they were invited to ask the great man questions and one student posed the question "if God has predestined some to be saved, must He not also have predestined those others to be damned?"
History records that the question threw Calvin and he hesitated a very long time before he very reluctantly had to agree that logically this must be so.
It's an assumption, there is no scripture
Arminius must have thought so too for it made him so angry that he threw out the whole kaboodle, the precious and the vile. His doctrine of human freewill which is thousands of times worse practically cancels out predestination and election.
The answer is as the scriptures themselves say we are predestined and elected unto the blessing, to be the people of God, the church.
It's not about salvation.
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Yeah.. heaven is preset for anyone who believes on the Lord Jesus Christ. That's one part of predestination.
Another part is the destiny of those who serve faithfully in God's churches, compared to those who get converted but aren't faithful. They have preset types of judgment.
Then the elect. Is all who have believed on the Lord Jesus Christ.
That's how I see it.
The key thing being what 'the church ' is. I don't see it as all redeemed, but the institution of God's local churches.
Not buildings.. but the communities of believers that meet at them.
Another part is the destiny of those who serve faithfully in God's churches, compared to those who get converted but aren't faithful. They have preset types of judgment.
Then the elect. Is all who have believed on the Lord Jesus Christ.
That's how I see it.
The key thing being what 'the church ' is. I don't see it as all redeemed, but the institution of God's local churches.
Not buildings.. but the communities of believers that meet at them.
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That is absolutely the way I see it.
I doesn't believe the saved will be just a few straggly sheep on His right hand and BILLIONS of goats on His left.
People say ah but "few there be that find it ... "
I don't think Jesus answered Peter's question directly, sometimes He doesn't. "Lord will few be saved?"
I think He answered "that is not your business, your business is to enter by the narrow gate, if you will enter in at the narrow gate I can use you, I can send you to the broad path and get the multitudes and turn them onto the narrow path that leads to life."
When people say "few" I think of the scriptures that say "many."
I doesn't believe the saved will be just a few straggly sheep on His right hand and BILLIONS of goats on His left.
People say ah but "few there be that find it ... "
I don't think Jesus answered Peter's question directly, sometimes He doesn't. "Lord will few be saved?"
I think He answered "that is not your business, your business is to enter by the narrow gate, if you will enter in at the narrow gate I can use you, I can send you to the broad path and get the multitudes and turn them onto the narrow path that leads to life."
When people say "few" I think of the scriptures that say "many."
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I don't think ye'll run outa gas any time soon
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It is possible that until means until and not beyond. The Holy Spirit is given to the believer until the day of redemption. This does not mean the Holy Spirit is given beyond the day of redemption. He is a down-payment until God acquires the purchased possession. Jesus promises to be with His disciples until the end of the age, but He does not say beyond the end of the age. It is possible that the Holy Spirit might be removed on their resurrection day from certain disciples who blasphemed Him. All men will have a day of redemption, where they are redeemed from death and are resurrected. But I have not decided which position on permanent immunity from prosecution the scriptures clearly teach.
Aeonous life is knowing Jesus and God (John 17:3) I do think many people are too busy trying to give themselves a theological assurance of acceptance at their judgment, despite their not seeking a deeper intimacy with the Father, Son and Holy Spirit i this life. If our focus is on developing grater intimacy with God in this life, we will not need to worry about whether the seal is effective only until the day of redemption, or it is permanently effective forever.
Aeonous life is knowing Jesus and God (John 17:3) I do think many people are too busy trying to give themselves a theological assurance of acceptance at their judgment, despite their not seeking a deeper intimacy with the Father, Son and Holy Spirit i this life. If our focus is on developing grater intimacy with God in this life, we will not need to worry about whether the seal is effective only until the day of redemption, or it is permanently effective forever.
Is-be, does anyone know what the Is-be is?
Is-be said that All souls have existed since the birth of the world,The soul will not perish nor increase or decrease.The expansion of the universe is due to the fusion of souls from other places with this universe.
Does it sound like being isolated from God for ever? The soul isolated from God went to a place outside this universe.Or come to this universe because the souls are isolated from God.
None of this content is biblical,But it is very interesting.It's just that I suddenly thought of this real story I read.
Is-be said that All souls have existed since the birth of the world,The soul will not perish nor increase or decrease.The expansion of the universe is due to the fusion of souls from other places with this universe.
Does it sound like being isolated from God for ever? The soul isolated from God went to a place outside this universe.Or come to this universe because the souls are isolated from God.
None of this content is biblical,But it is very interesting.It's just that I suddenly thought of this real story I read.
