Did Jesus Have an Advantage over Pre-Fall Adam During the Incarnation?
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“Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: but made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: and being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross. Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name: that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father. M
Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure. Do all things without murmurings and disputings:”
Philippians 2:5-14
Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure. Do all things without murmurings and disputings:”
Philippians 2:5-14
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Yes, and so do all who are born again. Adam was completely neutral, neither good not evil. He was created by God, not born of God. Jesus was conceived by the Holy Spirit. This is a great mystery, I realise. How can God fertilise a human egg to become a person? Yet this is exactly what happened.
What advantage did this give? For one, there was no temptation that could shake Him. Satan attempted to get Jesus to prove who He was "If you are the Son of God........" Jesus was having none of it. He knew who He was and still is.
When we think of the cross, we think of the physical pain and suffering. Hebrews tells us that Jesus despised the shame. The cleanest, purest and only sinless person who ever lived was mocked and spat on as if He were a sinner.
The greatest love a human can have is to lay down their life for a friend. Jesus has a love that transcends anything that humanity can muster. He loves those who hate Him to the point of murder. And that's why Jesus could do what He did.
What advantage did this give? For one, there was no temptation that could shake Him. Satan attempted to get Jesus to prove who He was "If you are the Son of God........" Jesus was having none of it. He knew who He was and still is.
When we think of the cross, we think of the physical pain and suffering. Hebrews tells us that Jesus despised the shame. The cleanest, purest and only sinless person who ever lived was mocked and spat on as if He were a sinner.
The greatest love a human can have is to lay down their life for a friend. Jesus has a love that transcends anything that humanity can muster. He loves those who hate Him to the point of murder. And that's why Jesus could do what He did.
Hebrews 4:15
For we do not have a high priest who is unable to sympathize with our weaknesses, but we have one who was tempted in every way that we are, yet was without sin.
This seems to suggest that He took no advantage of any opportunity that Adam was also afforded.
And this suggests the reason why:
2Timothy 2:13
if we are faithless, He remains faithful, for He cannot deny Himself.
Himself: The Son Who knows that the Father knows Him and Who knows the Father, Whom He revealed to us.
I wonder, if there was any other advantage, besides being Who He Is, if this was the "key" advantage, which we can now claim for ourselves through Him. Did Adam actually 'know' God as Father?
For we do not have a high priest who is unable to sympathize with our weaknesses, but we have one who was tempted in every way that we are, yet was without sin.
This seems to suggest that He took no advantage of any opportunity that Adam was also afforded.
And this suggests the reason why:
2Timothy 2:13
if we are faithless, He remains faithful, for He cannot deny Himself.
Himself: The Son Who knows that the Father knows Him and Who knows the Father, Whom He revealed to us.
I wonder, if there was any other advantage, besides being Who He Is, if this was the "key" advantage, which we can now claim for ourselves through Him. Did Adam actually 'know' God as Father?
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Patience is a virtue mate. 
I will get to the thread but I like to think about what has been said before I shoot my mouth off. Like I said in the OP, it is a discussion that has raised some interesting issues.
If Christ laid aside his right to be God (Phil2:6) and did nothing without the Father's consent (5:9), He can't have an advantasage because He is God, can He?
I will get to the thread but I like to think about what has been said before I shoot my mouth off. Like I said in the OP, it is a discussion that has raised some interesting issues.
If Christ laid aside his right to be God (Phil2:6) and did nothing without the Father's consent (5:9), He can't have an advantasage because He is God, can He?
Well, I don't know either, really, but then, "it is the glory of God to conceal a matter, and the glory of kings to search it out," so....
At what point in Jesus' temporal sojourn upon the earth might've He been most tempted to exercise His advantage?
Here, I suppose the most popular answer might be, 'within the desert,' but Jesus didn't hesitate to be strengthened by God's word when He was tempted there. What about at that time that He cried out, "My God, My God, why have you forsaken Me?"
Now, .... I've heard the explanation that this is the moment when He was separated from His Father, that the Father 'turned His back on Him' but, ...well, I find this a bit difficult to accept, without just 'taking it to be true,' Of course, and there are good reasons given to believe that, I've heard them, but the biggest hurdle for me in accepting this view is that Jesus said cried this out after He had said, "I thirst."
And God word says, "When the poor and needy seek water, and there is none, and their tongue faileth for thirst, I the LORD will hear them, I the God of Israel will not forsake them." (Isaiah 31:17)
So, was this actually the point that the Father turned away from Him, or rather, the closest Jesus came to actually 'losing faith' and turning away from God as (intimate) Father to regard Him as (distant) God, as I think Adam must have. Thus, this is why I wonder whether Adam actually knew God as Father even though Adam is known as 'a son of God,' because, after that moment when Jesus cried that out, "My God, My God...", even as He was feeling uncertain whether God was with Him, even then He said, "Father, into your hands, I commit my spirit."
At what point in Jesus' temporal sojourn upon the earth might've He been most tempted to exercise His advantage?
Here, I suppose the most popular answer might be, 'within the desert,' but Jesus didn't hesitate to be strengthened by God's word when He was tempted there. What about at that time that He cried out, "My God, My God, why have you forsaken Me?"
Now, .... I've heard the explanation that this is the moment when He was separated from His Father, that the Father 'turned His back on Him' but, ...well, I find this a bit difficult to accept, without just 'taking it to be true,' Of course, and there are good reasons given to believe that, I've heard them, but the biggest hurdle for me in accepting this view is that Jesus said cried this out after He had said, "I thirst."
And God word says, "When the poor and needy seek water, and there is none, and their tongue faileth for thirst, I the LORD will hear them, I the God of Israel will not forsake them." (Isaiah 31:17)
So, was this actually the point that the Father turned away from Him, or rather, the closest Jesus came to actually 'losing faith' and turning away from God as (intimate) Father to regard Him as (distant) God, as I think Adam must have. Thus, this is why I wonder whether Adam actually knew God as Father even though Adam is known as 'a son of God,' because, after that moment when Jesus cried that out, "My God, My God...", even as He was feeling uncertain whether God was with Him, even then He said, "Father, into your hands, I commit my spirit."
I'm sure I'd have to have a pretty solid background in existentialism to be able to argue effectively with you but since I do not, I can't be sure the answer to be so curt. I mean, They are One, yes this is true, but is One necessarily They? Way above my paygrade, for now but if I hope to aspire to know the depths and heights and breadths of the Person of God, I won't be discouraged to continue searching Him out. For instance, would I be wrong to refer to Them? I mean, I understand that Jesus wouldn't... but He did use the second person pronoun in reference to the Holy Spirit. So, considering whether it was possible, even as if it were not, would not necessarily in anyway be considering that it is.
Way above my paygrade, for now but if I hope to aspire to know the depths and heights and breadths of the Person of God, I won't be discouraged to continue searching Him out. For instance, would I be wrong to refer to Them? I mean, I understand that Jesus wouldn't... but He did use the second person pronoun in reference to the Holy Spirit. So, considering whether it was possible, even as if it were not, would not necessarily in anyway be considering that it is.Jesus was tempted with the same temptation that Adam faced in Eden. Satan offered Jesus the Kingdoms of the world, but on Satan's terms. Jesus said no way, knowing that He would gain those kingdoms anyway - but by God's way.
Adam did not know God spiritually. Jesus most certainly did, at least from the age of 12.
Adam did not know God spiritually. Jesus most certainly did, at least from the age of 12.
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He said "we" and "our".
Joh 14:22 Judas saith unto him, not Iscariot, Lord, how is it that thou wilt manifest thyself unto us, and not unto the world?
Joh 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.
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If they are the same being, the serpent accomplished his mission in the garden and failed in the desert. He succeeded in affectively killing Adam in the former, and affectively failed in keeping Jesus from being killed. We know 'how' he did these things, that is in what manner, but have you ever considered 'how' in like, what was the primary objective of the mission. Was it, first, to destroy the spirit? And then the rest body and soul, would easily follow suit?
I lean towards the idea that the Son, who has always existed as a divine person distinct from the father and the Holy Spirit, surrendered his divine attributes to become like us in every way. Partly, it was a design flaw test. If Jesus could have only the same faculties as humans, and live submerged in the same sin-soaked milieu, but in that form succeed in living a sinless faithful life, then there could be no argument that Adam's sin was the unavoidable result of a flaw in God's design. There was no design flaw, therefore those who sin are justly held responsible for their own sins.
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We are seeds.Seeds grow in the dust.So we are made of dust.Jesus Christ is water.Jesus Christ is nutrition.Jesus Christ is the tree of life.Jesus Christ is the first fruit.
These are all metaphors.I wouldn't describe it without metaphor.
Satan is poisonous in the dust.This poison will kill the seeds in the dust.Satan is like unfermented fertilizer,When applied to dust, seeds will wither.
These are all metaphors.I wouldn't describe it without metaphor.
Satan is poisonous in the dust.This poison will kill the seeds in the dust.Satan is like unfermented fertilizer,When applied to dust, seeds will wither.