Can the nonelect ever be born-again? (2 Kings 22:27) With the elect thou wilt be elect: and with the perverse thou wilt be perverted.
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Of 'course I'm a Calvinist, it should be obvious. All Christians are either Calvinist or Armenians. Don't try to wriggle out of reality and make the foolish claim that there's a third camp, because nobody has found the mysterious third camp. Christians have been searching for 500 years and nobody has found it so don't tell me you have.
The only place the third camp exists is, in the minds of self deluded ignorant people. None have any evidence of it's existence. So this makes you an Arminian, whether you like it or not.
The only place the third camp exists is, in the minds of self deluded ignorant people. None have any evidence of it's existence. So this makes you an Arminian, whether you like it or not.
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But Christianity is foolishness, to the world. The Word of God is foolishness to those who are perishing.
It would really help if you explained why you disagree with what I've said, otherwise I'm left with no option but to put you in the category of those who hate Gods Word.
I have paraphrased God, and all I find is slander. This is very troubling, because nobody can find anything unbiblical about any of my paraphrases but they just reject it out of hand and attack my integrity.
I want to be corrected if I have misapplied Gods Word in any way. Nobody has stepped up to the plate and provided any counter argument but they just resort to lies and slander as a defense. All that does is speak volumes about the false gospel they hold to
It would really help if you explained why you disagree with what I've said, otherwise I'm left with no option but to put you in the category of those who hate Gods Word.
I have paraphrased God, and all I find is slander. This is very troubling, because nobody can find anything unbiblical about any of my paraphrases but they just reject it out of hand and attack my integrity.
I want to be corrected if I have misapplied Gods Word in any way. Nobody has stepped up to the plate and provided any counter argument but they just resort to lies and slander as a defense. All that does is speak volumes about the false gospel they hold to
It doesn't seem so to me, and here's why:
In my Post #417 (which you are quoting here in your response), you don't have to rely solely on your memory; you can trace back via the arrow-links to see that you were responding to my Post #347 (pg 18) in your Post #356... John146 (member's) post was located nowhere near any of those; he and I were not making identical points; you were quoting and responding to me (what I'd put), not what John146 (member) had... but in an incoherent manner, from what I'm reading in your response there.
Thus, I can't see how what you are saying now has any relevance (or reality) at all. Unless I am misunderstanding you (very possible).
Please trace back through via those arrow-links, to see what I'd actually put (in my Post #347) and see why I am puzzled by your response to that post of mine (in your Post #356); the two do not "connect" (as in, logical conversational "connection"--i.e. "give and take" so to speak), that I can see, in any way. Perhaps let that "refresher" (on what I'd actually put) percolate for awhile (like, say, weeks) and then if you wish, we can later revisit the "discussion" (utilizing the actual points I did make, not ones I did not make. lol.)
If not, that's fine too.
Have a great day.
In my Post #417 (which you are quoting here in your response), you don't have to rely solely on your memory; you can trace back via the arrow-links to see that you were responding to my Post #347 (pg 18) in your Post #356... John146 (member's) post was located nowhere near any of those; he and I were not making identical points; you were quoting and responding to me (what I'd put), not what John146 (member) had... but in an incoherent manner, from what I'm reading in your response there.
Thus, I can't see how what you are saying now has any relevance (or reality) at all. Unless I am misunderstanding you (very possible).
Please trace back through via those arrow-links, to see what I'd actually put (in my Post #347) and see why I am puzzled by your response to that post of mine (in your Post #356); the two do not "connect" (as in, logical conversational "connection"--i.e. "give and take" so to speak), that I can see, in any way. Perhaps let that "refresher" (on what I'd actually put) percolate for awhile (like, say, weeks) and then if you wish, we can later revisit the "discussion" (utilizing the actual points I did make, not ones I did not make. lol.)
If not, that's fine too.
Have a great day.
Respectfully...
Consider:
no you are not.
(Nor is "EVERY" single believer ever.)
The Greek grammar of the sentence in Galatians 6:16 necessitates two "groups" being spoken of / addressed, where it says,
"... peace be UPON THEM, and mercy, AND UPON the Israel of God"
The particular phrase "the Israel of God" speaks specifically of "those of [national] Israel WHO BELIEVED" (it does NOT speak in particular here of "Gentiles" who believe); again, the "THEM" is distinct from "the Israel of God" grammar-wise (addressing two distinct groups) just as Paul elsewhere can legitimately address either the "men" in particular, or the "women" in particular (depending on the subject he is covering in which context);
...iow, it would be a silly (incoherent) argument to say that "neither men or women exist any longer, once we're in Christ / saved"--of course there still exists both men and women (and he addresses these separately in places), otherwise you should toss out your claims that "women" are not to preach (note: I'm not disagreeing here, I'm pointing out your logical incoherence and misunderstanding of the actual grammar of this text in Galatians 6:16--it is NOT saying what you [and Calvinists] are suggesting it is saying. Ponder that deeply. And take your time... LOTS of time... )
Consider:
no you are not.
(Nor is "EVERY" single believer ever.)
The Greek grammar of the sentence in Galatians 6:16 necessitates two "groups" being spoken of / addressed, where it says,
"... peace be UPON THEM, and mercy, AND UPON the Israel of God"
The particular phrase "the Israel of God" speaks specifically of "those of [national] Israel WHO BELIEVED" (it does NOT speak in particular here of "Gentiles" who believe); again, the "THEM" is distinct from "the Israel of God" grammar-wise (addressing two distinct groups) just as Paul elsewhere can legitimately address either the "men" in particular, or the "women" in particular (depending on the subject he is covering in which context);
...iow, it would be a silly (incoherent) argument to say that "neither men or women exist any longer, once we're in Christ / saved"--of course there still exists both men and women (and he addresses these separately in places), otherwise you should toss out your claims that "women" are not to preach (note: I'm not disagreeing here, I'm pointing out your logical incoherence and misunderstanding of the actual grammar of this text in Galatians 6:16--it is NOT saying what you [and Calvinists] are suggesting it is saying. Ponder that deeply.
And take your time... LOTS of time... )-
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Thank you so much that is very kind of you to offer...
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I think Charlie is a recently banned member who keeps coming back over and over and over.
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I agree with ya there I am slower than molasses's and it was obvious he was Jimmy. I asked him point blank in the, Don't take the Mark, thread. "There is a familiar arrogance and condescension in you. You wouldn't have happened to be Jimmy the Lock in a prior iteration would you?"
I got the reply I would have expected.......LOL I think he should get creative next time and pick, Banned on the run, as a screen name..........LOL
I got the reply I would have expected.......LOL I think he should get creative next time and pick, Banned on the run, as a screen name..........LOL
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I think Charlie is a recently banned member who keeps coming back over and over and over.
I think he/she/it doesn't have any friends and can't keep them. How else is he going to have anyone interact with him unless from a negative reaction through trolling? It's just really the saddest form of desperate interaction. What normal person with a good social life does that, lol?!??
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Biblically correct ?
“The Holy Spirit who abides in the elect of god that keeps us from falling away, so it's thanks to Him that the Saints never fall away or lose their salvation.”
“For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, and have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, if they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame. For the earth which drinketh in the rain that cometh oft upon it, and bringeth forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed, receiveth blessing from God: but that which beareth thorns and briers is rejected, and is nigh unto cursing; whose end is to be burned.”
Hebrews 6:4-8
“For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, but a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses: of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace? For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.”
Hebrews 10:26-30
This whole hypergrace election thing is completely misunderstood to the detriment of the Bible and what God actually has said that will save people that believe
“The Holy Spirit who abides in the elect of god that keeps us from falling away, so it's thanks to Him that the Saints never fall away or lose their salvation.”
“For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, and have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, if they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame. For the earth which drinketh in the rain that cometh oft upon it, and bringeth forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed, receiveth blessing from God: but that which beareth thorns and briers is rejected, and is nigh unto cursing; whose end is to be burned.”
Hebrews 6:4-8
“For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, but a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses: of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace? For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.”
Hebrews 10:26-30
This whole hypergrace election thing is completely misunderstood to the detriment of the Bible and what God actually has said that will save people that believe
It doesn't seem so to me, and here's why:
In my Post #417 (which you are quoting here in your response), you don't have to rely solely on your memory; you can trace back via the arrow-links to see that you were responding to my Post #347 (pg 18) in your Post #356... John146 (member's) post was located nowhere near any of those; he and I were not making identical points; you were quoting and responding to me (what I'd put), not what John146 (member) had... but in an incoherent manner, from what I'm reading in your response there.
Thus, I can't see how what you are saying now has any relevance (or reality) at all. Unless I am misunderstanding you (very possible).
Please trace back through via those arrow-links, to see what I'd actually put (in my Post #347) and see why I am puzzled by your response to that post of mine (in your Post #356); the two do not "connect" (as in, logical conversational "connection"--i.e. "give and take" so to speak), that I can see, in any way. Perhaps let that "refresher" (on what I'd actually put) percolate for awhile (like, say, weeks) and then if you wish, we can later revisit the "discussion" (utilizing the actual points I did make, not ones I did not make. lol.)
If not, that's fine too.
Have a great day.
In my Post #417 (which you are quoting here in your response), you don't have to rely solely on your memory; you can trace back via the arrow-links to see that you were responding to my Post #347 (pg 18) in your Post #356... John146 (member's) post was located nowhere near any of those; he and I were not making identical points; you were quoting and responding to me (what I'd put), not what John146 (member) had... but in an incoherent manner, from what I'm reading in your response there.
Thus, I can't see how what you are saying now has any relevance (or reality) at all. Unless I am misunderstanding you (very possible).
Please trace back through via those arrow-links, to see what I'd actually put (in my Post #347) and see why I am puzzled by your response to that post of mine (in your Post #356); the two do not "connect" (as in, logical conversational "connection"--i.e. "give and take" so to speak), that I can see, in any way. Perhaps let that "refresher" (on what I'd actually put) percolate for awhile (like, say, weeks) and then if you wish, we can later revisit the "discussion" (utilizing the actual points I did make, not ones I did not make. lol.)
If not, that's fine too.
Have a great day.
The problem with your Arminian version of the gospel message is, you forgot to take into consideration the fact hat God is not like men. The verse in question describes God electing all of those who will be saved, He elected them before before the world was created.
The problem, is you can't understand how God could elect people who won't come into existence for thousands of years in the future. I agree it is amazing but I believe God is amazing, you guys don't believe what God said because it's too amazing.
Your view of God is that He can only do what you allow Him to do. If He does something outside of your approval, you deny Him and refuse to believe Him.
Us Calvinists believe everything God said, we don't rubbish any part of what He said. You guys have trampled over hundreds of Bible verses because they don't fit into your theology.
You forgot that God sees the whole of time at the same time, He sees the beginning of time, the present and the end of time at the same time. I know this is a problem for men who want to fit God in their little box, and pull Him out when they want Him to support their Religious Denominational sect.
God never gave you the right to force His Word into your religious narrative, His Word forces us to obey and not question why He does what He does.
Remember He has killed billions of unborn babies, boys and girls, young men and women, fathers and mothers and grandparents in the flood. And nobody dared question Him for that blood bath and many others in history, so why do you have a problem with His sovereign right to elect some to salvation and leave others condemned to hell.
Respectfully...
Consider:
no you are not.
(Nor is "EVERY" single believer ever.)
The Greek grammar of the sentence in Galatians 6:16 necessitates two "groups" being spoken of / addressed, where it says,
"... peace be UPON THEM, and mercy, AND UPON the Israel of God"
The particular phrase "the Israel of God" speaks specifically of "those of [national] Israel WHO BELIEVED" (it does NOT speak in particular here of "Gentiles" who believe); again, the "THEM" is distinct from "the Israel of God" grammar-wise (addressing two distinct groups) just as Paul elsewhere can legitimately address either the "men" in particular, or the "women" in particular (depending on the subject he is covering in which context);
...iow, it would be a silly (incoherent) argument to say that "neither men or women exist any longer, once we're in Christ / saved"--of course there still exists both men and women (and he addresses these separately in places), otherwise you should toss out your claims that "women" are not to preach (note: I'm not disagreeing here, I'm pointing out your logical incoherence and misunderstanding of the actual grammar of this text in Galatians 6:16--it is NOT saying what you [and Calvinists] are suggesting it is saying. Ponder that deeply. And take your time... LOTS of time... )
Consider:
no you are not.
(Nor is "EVERY" single believer ever.)
The Greek grammar of the sentence in Galatians 6:16 necessitates two "groups" being spoken of / addressed, where it says,
"... peace be UPON THEM, and mercy, AND UPON the Israel of God"
The particular phrase "the Israel of God" speaks specifically of "those of [national] Israel WHO BELIEVED" (it does NOT speak in particular here of "Gentiles" who believe); again, the "THEM" is distinct from "the Israel of God" grammar-wise (addressing two distinct groups) just as Paul elsewhere can legitimately address either the "men" in particular, or the "women" in particular (depending on the subject he is covering in which context);
...iow, it would be a silly (incoherent) argument to say that "neither men or women exist any longer, once we're in Christ / saved"--of course there still exists both men and women (and he addresses these separately in places), otherwise you should toss out your claims that "women" are not to preach (note: I'm not disagreeing here, I'm pointing out your logical incoherence and misunderstanding of the actual grammar of this text in Galatians 6:16--it is NOT saying what you [and Calvinists] are suggesting it is saying. Ponder that deeply.
And take your time... LOTS of time... )
You guys fail to take into consideration that Jesus, came into the world and trashed the old covenant and established a new covenant.
Where there is no Jew or Gentile, no man or woman, no child or grandfather. The Israel of God is all of His elect, from the beginning of time to the end of time.
Why do you have a problem with God choosing Gentiles as well as Jews and blacks and yellow and reds.
Arminianists believe one can "lose [or forfeit] salvation". I DO NOT BELIEVE THAT.
Again, I am NOT "Arminianist" NOR "Calvinist"...
... but it seems like you are not willing to listen to a person's "reasons" (a biblical defense) why they/I DO NOT ACCEPT *either* of those two viewpoints (neither are accurately biblically). I'm endeavoring to take it (in this discussion thread) verse by verse, passage by passage.
It simply is not true what you stated several posts ago, something to the effect that NO ONE has presented ANY reasonings (only accusations, etc)... *sigh*
Again, I am NOT "Arminianist" NOR "Calvinist"...
... but it seems like you are not willing to listen to a person's "reasons" (a biblical defense) why they/I DO NOT ACCEPT *either* of those two viewpoints (neither are accurately biblically). I'm endeavoring to take it (in this discussion thread) verse by verse, passage by passage.
It simply is not true what you stated several posts ago, something to the effect that NO ONE has presented ANY reasonings (only accusations, etc)... *sigh*