Day of the Lord and the Thief.

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

Omegatime

Well-known member
Apr 29, 2023
1,193
433
83
Pennsylvania
#21
... behold a cry "the Bridegroom cometh with His bride" [ancient texts] the maids had time to trim their lamps.

as opposed to a cry "the thief cometh with his swagbag"

Paul makes no mention of loud bangs and melting away of the elements. Jesus spoke in terms of child birth, so did Paul, Paul spoke of the creation being set free.

Only Paul understood the Rapture ... The 2nd coming for the Jews was the end of the world.
-----------------------------------------------------------------
No scripture in this story saying the bride is coming with the Lord. In the jewish wedding analogy the handmaids escorted the bride.
 

Omegatime

Well-known member
Apr 29, 2023
1,193
433
83
Pennsylvania
#22
yeh the loud bangs and fervent eat is after the mill ...
21 Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth; for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and the sea was no more. 2 And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband; 3 and I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, “Behold, the dwelling of God is with men. He will dwell with them, and they shall be his people,[a] and God himself will be with them;[b] 4 he will wipe away every tear from their eyes, and death shall be no more, neither shall there be mourning nor crying nor pain any more, for the former things have passed away.”

I think you have your timing wrong
 

Evmur

Well-known member
Feb 28, 2021
5,219
2,618
113
London
christianchat.com
#23
-----------------------------------------------------------------
No scripture in this story saying the bride is coming with the Lord. In the jewish wedding analogy the handmaids escorted the bride.
not in your bible, in more ancient Latin texts than Jerome she is there. And the Jewish custom was for the Groom to arrive with his bride to the wedding feast.

Now why would Jerome omit those words "with His bride"? I'll tell you why

Jerome was Catholic and the Catholics had decided to put aside the doctrine of the millennial reign, likely it was part of the dirty peace deal they made with Constantine because Rome aspired to reign for a 1, 000 years.

So no 1, 000 years then.

Therefore no rapture, why would there need to be a removal of the church if Christ was already reigning on earth.? they didn't ban these doctrines, they just decided to stop teaching them.

In cutting out the 1000 years they were also cutting out the Jews, The Jews were in disfavour with Rome and with the Catholic church. But the 1,000 years are the Jews and Christ their Messiah reigning on earth. The church has gone.

So when Jerome comes to translate he has a headache, for he has the Church in the bride ... right? so who are these maidens? You can't have 2 churches, the bride and the wise maidens.

So he cuts the bride out ... we can all go home, problem solved.

But it completely alters the meaning of the parable. And all translators have followed Jerome.

Paul teaches that when Christ comes to judge [after the mill] God will bring us with Him.
 

Evmur

Well-known member
Feb 28, 2021
5,219
2,618
113
London
christianchat.com
#24
21 Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth; for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and the sea was no more. 2 And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband; 3 and I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, “Behold, the dwelling of God is with men. He will dwell with them, and they shall be his people,[a] and God himself will be with them;[b] 4 he will wipe away every tear from their eyes, and death shall be no more, neither shall there be mourning nor crying nor pain any more, for the former things have passed away.”

I think you have your timing wrong
ummm ... that's the new Heaven and new Earth ... after the mill.
 

Evmur

Well-known member
Feb 28, 2021
5,219
2,618
113
London
christianchat.com
#25
-----------------------------------------------------------------
No scripture in this story saying the bride is coming with the Lord. In the jewish wedding analogy the handmaids escorted the bride.
so the handmaids are the church ... and the bride is the church
 

Evmur

Well-known member
Feb 28, 2021
5,219
2,618
113
London
christianchat.com
#26
not in your bible, in more ancient Latin texts than Jerome she is there. And the Jewish custom was for the Groom to arrive with his bride to the wedding feast.

Now why would Jerome omit those words "with His bride"? I'll tell you why

Jerome was Catholic and the Catholics had decided to put aside the doctrine of the millennial reign, likely it was part of the dirty peace deal they made with Constantine because Rome aspired to reign for a 1, 000 years.

So no 1, 000 years then.

Therefore no rapture, why would there need to be a removal of the church if Christ was already reigning on earth.? they didn't ban these doctrines, they just decided to stop teaching them.

In cutting out the 1000 years they were also cutting out the Jews, The Jews were in disfavour with Rome and with the Catholic church. But the 1,000 years are the Jews and Christ their Messiah reigning on earth. The church has gone.

So when Jerome comes to translate he has a headache, for he has the Church in the bride ... right? so who are these maidens? You can't have 2 churches, the bride and the wise maidens.

So he cuts the bride out ... we can all go home, problem solved.

But it completely alters the meaning of the parable. And all translators have followed Jerome.

Paul teaches that when Christ comes to judge [after the mill] God will bring us with Him.
In the parable of the sheep and goats Jerome is at it again.

He reads the King will come and all His sacredos with Him and sit on His glorious throne.

Now this word sacredos means holy ones, it can refer to saints or to the holy angels.

But Jerome has already spied out the church in the woolly sheep who the Lord has set on His right hand. Once again we can't have 2 churches, so Jerome deftly makes sacredos to mean "all His holy angels"

Once again problem solved.

Once again the meaning of the parable is completely altered.
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
14,661
5,908
113
#28
1 Thess 5:2 For you yourselves know well that the day of the Lord will come like a thief in the night.

2 Peter 3:10

But the day of the Lord will come like a thief, and then the heavens will pass away with a loud noise, and the elements will be dissolved with fire, and the earth and the works that are upon it will be burned up.

The stealing of the Bride!

In the jewish wedding story. The Bride was stolen in the sense that the groom would come unanounced in the middle of the night and seize her from her bed along with the handmaids. It may have been as long as 2 years ago since she has seen the groom.

The Bridegroom therefore comes "like a thief in the night." For Christians it will be the same on the Day of the Lord when the Thief cometh.
“For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also. Let your loins be girded about, and your lights burning; and ye yourselves like unto men that wait for their Lord, when he will return from the wedding; that when he cometh and knocketh, they may open unto him immediately.

Blessed are those servants, whom the Lord when he cometh shall find watching: verily I say unto you, that he shall gird himself, and make them to sit down to meat, and will come forth and serve them. And if he shall come in the second watch, or come in the third watch, and find them so, blessed are those servants.

And this know, that if the goodman of the house had known what hour the thief would come, he would have watched, and not have suffered his house to be broken through. Be ye therefore ready also: for the Son of man cometh at an hour when ye think not.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭12:34-40‬ ‭

“But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you. For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night. For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.”
‭‭1 Thessalonians‬ ‭5:1-3‬ ‭

They already heard the gospel before this letter Paul’s reminding them of the gospel

“But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.”
‭‭2 Peter‬ ‭3:10‬ ‭

The aposltes letters are coming from the teachings of Christ in the gospel
 

Omegatime

Well-known member
Apr 29, 2023
1,193
433
83
Pennsylvania
#29
Noise, elements melting with fervent heat all taking place in the Vial or bowl judgments.

The Day of the lord begins when the Bowl Judgements begins
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
14,661
5,908
113
#30
21 Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth; for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and the sea was no more. 2 And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband; 3 and I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, “Behold, the dwelling of God is with men. He will dwell with them, and they shall be his people,[a] and God himself will be with them;[b] 4 he will wipe away every tear from their eyes, and death shall be no more, neither shall there be mourning nor crying nor pain any more, for the former things have passed away.”

I think you have your timing wrong
Or the bride herself is the new Jerusalem and the chrich has been invited to attend the wedding of Christ and his bride

“the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband”

The kingdom of heaven is like unto a certain king, which made a marriage for his son, and sent forth his servants to call them that were bidden to the wedding: and they would not come.


Again, he sent forth other servants, saying, Tell them which are bidden, Behold, I have prepared my dinner: my oxen and my fatlings are killed, and all things are ready: come unto the marriage.

But they made light of it, and went their ways, one to his farm, another to his merchandise: and the remnant took his servants, and entreated them spitefully, and slew them.

But when the king heard thereof, he was wroth: and he sent forth his armies, and destroyed those murderers, and burned up their city. Then saith he to his servants, The wedding is ready, but they which were bidden were not worthy.

Go ye therefore into the highways, and as many as ye shall find, bid to the marriage. ( go preach the gospel to everyone ) So those servants went out into the highways, and gathered together all as many as they found, both bad and good: and the wedding was furnished with guests.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭22:2-10‬ ‭

The church are the invited guests to the wedding not the bride herself but invited to attend
 

stilllearning

Well-known member
Oct 4, 2021
598
307
63
#31
Saying Satan is the antichrist we will disagree. The man who will be the antichrist will be a jew from the tribe of Dan.
I would agree. I read he will be Jewish as well mainly from Daniel 11:..... 37Neither shall he regard the God of his fathers, nor the desire of women, nor regard any god: for he shall magnify himself above all. 38But in his estate shall he honour the God of forces: and a god whom his fathers knew not shall he honour with gold, and silver, and with precious stones, and pleasant things.

In the Old Testament God of your fathers is used in reference to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. As well as other places it reads to me that it can also be their forefathers in general. So would lean towards this verse in Daniel pointing out that the individual would be Jewish. Not sure on Dan have read different theories and don't really agree or disagree have just not read anything yet that would tip me heavier to one side of the argument for or against.

Reckon my hesitation would be the anti-christ is also called the Assyrian. So could be he may be of Dan and his linage is of one of those that were relocated to Assyria. You can research Assyrians and find that they are a minority group in Iraq as well as amongst the Kurds. There are actual ethnic Jews that are still amongst the Assyrians and are called of Assyrian Jews. As well as Assyrians that have become Jews by religion rather than ethnicity.

What I have oft found interesting is that Jonah bought the Assyrian's some time by their repenting. However, was not to long after Jonah that God ended the nation of Assyria. Of course some of those of the nation of Israel were relocated into Assyria. When Assyria ended Israel.

So have oft wondered if some of those that repented offered safe harbor to the Israelites that were relocated to Assyria. Could this be done in advance so that the anti-christ could fulfill scripture so that he would be Jewish but also grew up amongst the Assyrians so that he could be called the Assyrian.

One thing is for sure Assyria is unique amongst the ancient empires that God sent a prophet to them to repent prior to Hebrews being relocated there.
 

Chaps

Active member
Apr 3, 2024
307
114
43
California
#32
yeh the loud bangs and fervent eat is after the mill ...
Not sure I am following the references here or if you are being sarcastic. I’m new here so if you use Bible references to explain your view, it will help me understand which loud bangs and fervent eats you are referring to.
 

Omegatime

Well-known member
Apr 29, 2023
1,193
433
83
Pennsylvania
#33
I would agree. I read he will be Jewish as well mainly from Daniel 11:..... 37Neither shall he regard the God of his fathers, nor the desire of women, nor regard any god: for he shall magnify himself above all. 38But in his estate shall he honour the God of forces: and a god whom his fathers knew not shall he honour with gold, and silver, and with precious stones, and pleasant things.

In the Old Testament God of your fathers is used in reference to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. As well as other places it reads to me that it can also be their forefathers in general. So would lean towards this verse in Daniel pointing out that the individual would be Jewish. Not sure on Dan have read different theories and don't really agree or disagree have just not read anything yet that would tip me heavier to one side of the argument for or against.

Reckon my hesitation would be the anti-christ is also called the Assyrian. So could be he may be of Dan and his linage is of one of those that were relocated to Assyria. You can research Assyrians and find that they are a minority group in Iraq as well as amongst the Kurds. There are actual ethnic Jews that are still amongst the Assyrians and are called of Assyrian Jews. As well as Assyrians that have become Jews by religion rather than ethnicity.

What I have oft found interesting is that Jonah bought the Assyrian's some time by their repenting. However, was not to long after Jonah that God ended the nation of Assyria. Of course some of those of the nation of Israel were relocated into Assyria. When Assyria ended Israel.

So have oft wondered if some of those that repented offered safe harbor to the Israelites that were relocated to Assyria. Could this be done in advance so that the anti-christ could fulfill scripture so that he would be Jewish but also grew up amongst the Assyrians so that he could be called the Assyrian.

One thing is for sure Assyria is unique amongst the ancient empires that God sent a prophet to them to repent prior to Hebrews being relocated there.
=========================================================

Deu 33:22 And of Dan he said, “Dan is a lion’s whelp, that leaps forth from Bashan.”
 

Chaps

Active member
Apr 3, 2024
307
114
43
California
#34
Not sure I understand your post. Are you saying the second coming can’t come after the millenium because the millennium marks the beginning of eternity, life without end?
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
14,661
5,908
113
#35
=========================================================

Deu 33:22 And of Dan he said, “Dan is a lion’s whelp, that leaps forth from Bashan.”
did you notice that there are twelve sons of jacob named in the ot tribes and Dan is labeled a serpent ? And later replaced by God

And there are twelve apostles in the New Testament and Judas is named a devil ?mand later replaced by Jesus ?
 

Omegatime

Well-known member
Apr 29, 2023
1,193
433
83
Pennsylvania
#36
Not sure I understand your post. Are you saying the second coming can’t come after the millenium because the millennium marks the beginning of eternity, life without end?[/QUOTE

No, not at all. The man made term " second coming" refers to his return after the tribulation. Remember there is no rapture/resurrection when the Lord returns at the end of the Tribulation. The sheep/goat judgement is to determine who enters the kingdom with flesh and blood. The sheep and goats were all unrighteous and came thru the bowl judgments and all were from the nations (gentiles). The sheep were allowed to enter the kingdom because they helped the jews fleeing the antichrist with nothing,
 

Omegatime

Well-known member
Apr 29, 2023
1,193
433
83
Pennsylvania
#37
did you notice that there are twelve sons of jacob named in the ot tribes and Dan is labeled a serpent ? And later replaced by God

And there are twelve apostles in the New Testament and Judas is named a devil ?mand later replaced by Jesus ?
-----------------------------------------

Where is modern day Dan? The territory that belonged to the Tribe of Dan was located on the eastern coast of the Mediterranean Sea where modern-day Israel is. However, the tribe was lost to history after the Northern Kingdom of Israel was conquered by the Assyrians in 722 BCE.
 

stilllearning

Well-known member
Oct 4, 2021
598
307
63
#38
-----------------------------------------

Where is modern day Dan? The territory that belonged to the Tribe of Dan was located on the eastern coast of the Mediterranean Sea where modern-day Israel is. However, the tribe was lost to history after the Northern Kingdom of Israel was conquered by the Assyrians in 722 BCE.
They also conquered Leshem or Laish bro and renamed it Dan. Which would put that part of them in the area or region of Bashan. Just like you quoted in Deuteronomy.

Here is a map link to just get a visual.

https://bibleatlas.org/laish.htm
 

Omegatime

Well-known member
Apr 29, 2023
1,193
433
83
Pennsylvania
#39
did you notice that there are twelve sons of jacob named in the ot tribes and Dan is labeled a serpent ? And later replaced by God

And there are twelve apostles in the New Testament and Judas is named a devil ?mand later replaced by Jesus ?
--------------------------------------------------------------
Here is some interesting reading from a man named Hippolytus, a disciple of Irenaeus who was taught by Polycarp, a disciple of Apostle john.

Now, as our Lord Jesus Christ, who is also God, was prophesied of under the figure of a lion, on account of His royalty and glory, in the same way have the Scriptures also aforetime spoken of Antichrist as a lion, on account of his tyranny and violence. For the deceiver seeks to liken himself in all things to the Son of God. Christ is a lion, so Antichrist is also a lion; Christ is a king,John 18:37 so Antichrist is also a king. The Saviour was manifested as a lamb; John 1:29 so he too, in like manner, will appear as a lamb, though within he is a wolf. The Saviour came into the World in the circumcision, and he will come in the same manner. The Lord sent apostles among all the nations, and he in like manner will send false apostles. The Saviour gathered together the sheep that were scattered abroad, and he in like manner will bring together a people that is scattered abroad. The Lord gave a seal to those who believed on Him, and he will give one like manner. The Saviour appeared in the form of man, and he too will come in the form of a man. The Saviour raised up and showed His holy flesh like a temple, John 2:19 and he will raise a temple of stone in Jerusalem