Predestination is misunderstood...

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maxamir

Active member
Mar 8, 2024
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and who has been chosen
those who were predestined.

Rom 8:29 For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren.
Rom 8:30 Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified.

chose.jpg
 

FollowerofShiloh

Well-known member
Jan 24, 2024
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God saves all children before the age of accountability and they will be with Him in eternity.
I agree with you.
The very basis in our way of life is we must "believe" in Jesus.
A newborn, even a child 4 to 5 maybe not old enough to understand this.
There's definitely an "Age of Accountability" when we consider "how old is someone" to know what belief in Jesus means?
Any age before that has no accountability.
 

Genez

Junior Member
Oct 12, 2017
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Actually it is clear that Satan did previously attack Adam and failed. Miserably.
If its "quite clear?" It should be no problem showing me with Scripture exactly what happened...

I would like to know what you know, please. Because, I can't see it yet.


:coffee::coffee::coffee::coffee::coffee:
 

Cameron143

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Mar 1, 2022
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Speculating? Read Job and all of Satan's machinations and lies. One can easily deduce much from all of what Satan is said to say and do. And very confidently dovetail that into the scenario at the Garden.
Like I said...speculation. it's beyond what scripture declares.
 

maxamir

Active member
Mar 8, 2024
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What you just did is sin....

You distorted that person's words.
Now he must struggle with YOUR sin....

When you learn not to do that your sinning will become less.....
You struggle with sin will become lessened.
God delivered His people from the condemnation and guilt of sin. He is delivering them from the power of sin this side of eternity but they will only be freed from the presence of sin in eternity.

God works all things together for the good of His people who love Him, even the sin they have been made to hate does so (Rom 8:28).

Rom 5:20 Moreover the law entered that the offense might abound. But where sin abounded, grace abounded much more,
 
Dec 18, 2023
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those who were predestined.

Rom 8:29 For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren.
Rom 8:30 Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified.

View attachment 262128
what sin did he forgive you at birth when you where born
 

FollowerofShiloh

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Jan 24, 2024
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Noah was the only righteous man of his generation. He made it easy for God.
Moses saw his people being mistreated and killed an Egypt. He made it easy for God.
Same with Joshua and that whole list.
They were faithful to God before God used them.

That list is a joke how it is portrayed. Very deceitful.

That's the Reformed for ya.
 
Dec 18, 2023
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If its "quite clear?" It should be no problem showing me with Scripture exactly what happened...

I would like to know what you know, please. Because, I can't see it yet.


:coffee::coffee::coffee::coffee::coffee:
time and time again You've all been asked to prove it was satan in the garden, and time and time again you ain't proven nothing
 

FollowerofShiloh

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Jan 24, 2024
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Paul even writes about Martyrdom because watching Stephen began a change in him.
He heard the Gospel preached to him first hand from Stephen like he writes later: Hearing leads to Faith.

These picto-messages are a big joke.
 

maxamir

Active member
Mar 8, 2024
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Funny, I don't see anywhere in there you are to judge another's relationship with the Lord?
Luk_6:44 For every tree is known by its own fruit. For men do not gather figs from thorns, nor do they gather grapes from a bramble bush.

Those who say that they have faith in their faith in Christ rather than faith in the person and work of Christ are still under the curse and are not yet saved because God resists the proud and only gives grace to the humble.

Jer 17:5 Thus says the LORD: "Cursed is the man who trusts in man And makes flesh his strength, Whose heart departs from the LORD.

2Co_13:5 Examine yourselves as to whether you are in the faith. Test yourselves. Do you not know yourselves, that Jesus Christ is in you?—unless indeed you are disqualified.

Php_2:12 Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling;

2Pe_1:10 Therefore, brethren, be even more diligent to make your call and election sure, for if you do these things you will never stumble;

lest you be found with those who looked to their deeds and heard the words below.

Mat 7:22 Many will say to Me in that day, 'Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?'
Mat 7:23 And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!'
 

maxamir

Active member
Mar 8, 2024
696
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what sin did he forgive you at birth when you where born
Those whom God chooses before time are saved in eternity but born into a cursed world and justified in time by grace through faith in the blood of Christ.
 

PaulThomson

Well-known member
Oct 29, 2023
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It is not my rationalisation why babies die. They are sometimes born with physical abnormalities. Satan can do nothing without the Lord's permission so the idea that he's going round destroying willy nilly is false. He needed permission to attack Job, the demons needed permission to go into swine.

I never said Adam's sin and guilt was passed down. I said the consequences of his sin was passed down. When he sinned, he died spiritually and that caused a genetic mutation. Another law (as per Rom.7) entered his flesh and as flesh begets flesh (Jn.3:6) we inherited that law. It is this genetic fault that acts much like the serpent in the garden did by tempting us to sin and because we are spiritually dead and without the knowledge of God we answer the temptation as best we know how which is based on our own understanding ergo, we sin.

I have to be honest, it never fails to amaze me how anyone can face the Lord Jesus Christ and not be aware of the inherent fault that we possess. Romans 7 makes it abundantly clear we have another/different law at work in our flesh that wages war against our soul (mind).

You say mortality was decreed upon all men yet give me no explanation for death except "the devil did it". You would have no natural death but make every death supernatural. Go take a lesson in biology. Are you even aware there are creatures that don't die?
You said: "Satan can do nothing without the Lord's permission".

Nowhere in the Bible is this stated. Satan can do nothing without man's permission. God made man master of the earth. Man gives permission to satan to kill, steal and destroy when he obeys satan's will. Whoever is doing sin makes himself a slave of sin. Mn also gives satan permission to kill, steal and destroy when man believes satan's lies that contradict what the scriptures say.

God does graciously limit satan's effectiveness against those who trust in God, like Job, because faith pleases God and He chooses to bless faith. Man was given legal dominion over Adam, since it was surrendered to him by Adam when Adam sinned. He is the God of this world in that he does his will among those who believe his lies and in ignorance or in belligerence do his will.

You said: "I never said Adam's sin and guilt was passed down. I said the consequences of his sin was passed down. When he sinned, he died spiritually and that caused a genetic mutation. Another law (as per Rom.7) entered his flesh and as flesh begets flesh (Jn.3:6) we inherited that law. It is this genetic fault that acts much like the serpent in the garden did by tempting us to sin and because we are spiritually dead and without the knowledge of God we answer the temptation as best we know how which is based on our own understanding ergo, we sin."

I agree with the bold part, but then you wander off into unscriptural Christianese rationalising jargon not found in the Bible. "Spiritual death" is not mentioned anywhere in scripture. Death is physical death, or the second physical death or a sentence of future physical death. It is also used metaphorically of continually putting to death daily the old man, the flesh. I just don't see "spiritual death" anywhere.
I don't think it says anywhere that Adam died spiritually. It does say that he would die within 1000 years, which is within one day of his sin. The lord is not slack concerning His promises as some consider slackness. A day with the Lord is a thousand years and a thousand years as one day. And Adam, and every descendant of Adam, has died physically within one "day", 1000 years. Why any need to creat a category of spiritually dead, and spiritual death?

You said: "You say mortality was decreed upon all men yet give me no explanation for death except "the devil did it". You would have no natural death but make every death supernatural. Go take a lesson in biology. Are you even aware there are creatures that don't die?"

God's decree is the reason we die. Why God chose to make death within 1000 years universal for all because of Adam's sin is a matter of conjecture. It would seem to limit the amount of damage one individual can do, and it would seem to limit the amount of damage one individual can suffer. It would seem to provide an impetus to get into harmony with God, if I could die today and have to face a judgment. I did not say only the devil is the cause, I suggested animals, demons, men, and poisons in the environment (which would include disease-causing causes). There may be other sources of death for an innocent baby as well. But please, don't straw man your conversation partners just to appear to be winning a debate. That is not a helpful strategy in a genuine search for truth.
 

PaulThomson

Well-known member
Oct 29, 2023
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You obviously have not yet been brought to see yourself before a thrice holy God to deny the doctrine of original sin and think that man who is spiritually dead and lost the image and likeness of God in the Fall can choose anything outside of his cursed nature which is in slavery to sin and the devil and hates God and know that therefore it is impossible for man to choose God unless he has first been born again.

Psa 51:5 Behold, I was brought forth in iniquity, And in sin my mother conceived me.
A Whale is brought forth on salt water and its mother conceives it in salt water, but it does not have salt water circulating around inside its body. We are all born in a world saturated in sin, and are all conceived in a world saturated in sin. But this does not mean we are born and conceived with sin in us.
 

Genez

Junior Member
Oct 12, 2017
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407
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Those whom God chooses before time are saved in eternity but born into a cursed world and justified in time by grace through faith in the blood of Christ.
Yet, you were not born again until you knowingly believed in Christ.

In other words? You were not born regenerated.
That's why Jesus said we need to be born again.

I said that to clear up some ambiguity your wording could have led some into....
 

Genez

Junior Member
Oct 12, 2017
2,775
407
83
A Whale is brought forth on salt water and its mother conceives it in salt water, but it does not have salt water circulating around inside its body. We are all born in a world saturated in sin, and are all conceived in a world saturated in sin. But this does not mean we are born and conceived with sin in us.

Does that mean Psalm 51:5 is fantasy?

Amplified Bible

I was brought forth in [a state of] wickedness; In sin my mother conceived me
[and from my beginning I, too, was sinful].


Sir.... you are failing your discipleship course....
 

Genez

Junior Member
Oct 12, 2017
2,775
407
83
those who were predestined.

Rom 8:29 For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren.
Rom 8:30 Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified.

View attachment 262128
God choses us for a purpose.