The crusades
- Thread starter Ray2005
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No, it is not healthy at all.
That makes us no different than any other violent religion. A religion which has nothing to do with God at that point.
At that point it’s like team sports except it involves death, war and suffering.
The crusades are the lowest point in Christianity which pushes away a lot of unbelievers because they are unable to separate corrupted men or women from the messages of God.
God says we are to be His ambassadors, so picking up a sword and subjugating your enemies is not a well received messages for anyone anywhere.
So, set a good example and leave your sword at home.
That makes us no different than any other violent religion. A religion which has nothing to do with God at that point.
At that point it’s like team sports except it involves death, war and suffering.
The crusades are the lowest point in Christianity which pushes away a lot of unbelievers because they are unable to separate corrupted men or women from the messages of God.
God says we are to be His ambassadors, so picking up a sword and subjugating your enemies is not a well received messages for anyone anywhere.
So, set a good example and leave your sword at home.
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but cant we just consider them as acts of self defense? Given what Jesus says in Luke 22:36, given the fact that a sword is a lethal weapon, Jesus affirms lethal force in self-defense. And in this New Testament passage, Jesus doesn't limit the time of day and doesnt limit against whom.
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Look, if you take a verse from the Bible you can justify almost anything, but practically speaking you have to overcome thousands of years of cultural mindsets, since it says that you‘re from Lebanon.
I know this because I’m from Albania and I also try to overcome thousands of years of cultural mindsets.
God is larger than a location or a strip of land. So don’t limit yourself to a location or a verse.
A world war 2 American veteran called Desmond Doss did not want to carry a weapon to kill anybody during world war 2 so he became a medic and helped the Japanese [who were hated back then] and the Americans.
He said: While you all try to blow yourselves up, I will try to put you back together little by little.
He got a bronze medal for this act but in heaven his reward is greater.
I know this because I’m from Albania and I also try to overcome thousands of years of cultural mindsets.
God is larger than a location or a strip of land. So don’t limit yourself to a location or a verse.
A world war 2 American veteran called Desmond Doss did not want to carry a weapon to kill anybody during world war 2 so he became a medic and helped the Japanese [who were hated back then] and the Americans.
He said: While you all try to blow yourselves up, I will try to put you back together little by little.
He got a bronze medal for this act but in heaven his reward is greater.
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Are you Keith Crosby? 
“Think. If Jesus allows self-defense with a lethal weapon in the face of persecution, then would Jesus prohibit protecting the home day or night? Would he restrict self-defense day or night in the face of a criminal coming to steal or kill or destroy? You certainly can’t make such a case from Exodus 22:3. Given what Jesus says in Luke 22:36, given the fact that a sword is a lethal weapon, Jesus affirms lethal force in self-defense. And in this New Testament passage, Jesus doesn’t limit the time of day. Certainly, lethal force should be avoided if possible. However, those who break in and steal face the possibility that their actions will cost them their lives as they choose to endanger themselves and others by entering a home violently or by stealth.” Keith Crosby
“Think. If Jesus allows self-defense with a lethal weapon in the face of persecution, then would Jesus prohibit protecting the home day or night? Would he restrict self-defense day or night in the face of a criminal coming to steal or kill or destroy? You certainly can’t make such a case from Exodus 22:3. Given what Jesus says in Luke 22:36, given the fact that a sword is a lethal weapon, Jesus affirms lethal force in self-defense. And in this New Testament passage, Jesus doesn’t limit the time of day. Certainly, lethal force should be avoided if possible. However, those who break in and steal face the possibility that their actions will cost them their lives as they choose to endanger themselves and others by entering a home violently or by stealth.” Keith Crosby
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Are you Keith Crosby?
“Think. If Jesus allows self-defense with a lethal weapon in the face of persecution, then would Jesus prohibit protecting the home day or night? Would he restrict self-defense day or night in the face of a criminal coming to steal or kill or destroy? You certainly can’t make such a case from Exodus 22:3. Given what Jesus says in Luke 22:36, given the fact that a sword is a lethal weapon, Jesus affirms lethal force in self-defense. And in this New Testament passage, Jesus doesn’t limit the time of day. Certainly, lethal force should be avoided if possible. However, those who break in and steal face the possibility that their actions will cost them their lives as they choose to endanger themselves and others by entering a home violently or by stealth.” Keith Crosby
“Think. If Jesus allows self-defense with a lethal weapon in the face of persecution, then would Jesus prohibit protecting the home day or night? Would he restrict self-defense day or night in the face of a criminal coming to steal or kill or destroy? You certainly can’t make such a case from Exodus 22:3. Given what Jesus says in Luke 22:36, given the fact that a sword is a lethal weapon, Jesus affirms lethal force in self-defense. And in this New Testament passage, Jesus doesn’t limit the time of day. Certainly, lethal force should be avoided if possible. However, those who break in and steal face the possibility that their actions will cost them their lives as they choose to endanger themselves and others by entering a home violently or by stealth.” Keith Crosby
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Hello Ray2005,
I would like to direct you to Ephesians 6:12. It states: For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places."
This scripture is a reminder that our fight is not a physical fight. You mentioned fighting to take back "Christian lands". Yet Jesus said to Pilate, "My kingdom is not of this world: if My kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is My kingdom not from hence." (John 18:36)
There is a fight. It is a spiritual war for the souls of man. Every man, woman, and child killed not knowing Jesus as their Lord and Savior dies not knowing salvation form the flames of Hell. Yet, Jesus died that all mankind might be saved.
If you want to fight the good fight, then take up the Sword of the Spirit and learn how to weild it. This Sword is the Word of God. It is "quick, and powerful, and sharper than any two edged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerned of the thoughts and intents of the heart." (Hebrews 4:12)
The only way we can hope the land we live in is a land holding to a faith in God the Father, Son, And Spirit, then we must know the Bible, speak the Bible, and pray for the hearts and souls of the people to hear and believe.
I would like to direct you to Ephesians 6:12. It states: For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places."
This scripture is a reminder that our fight is not a physical fight. You mentioned fighting to take back "Christian lands". Yet Jesus said to Pilate, "My kingdom is not of this world: if My kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is My kingdom not from hence." (John 18:36)
There is a fight. It is a spiritual war for the souls of man. Every man, woman, and child killed not knowing Jesus as their Lord and Savior dies not knowing salvation form the flames of Hell. Yet, Jesus died that all mankind might be saved.
If you want to fight the good fight, then take up the Sword of the Spirit and learn how to weild it. This Sword is the Word of God. It is "quick, and powerful, and sharper than any two edged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerned of the thoughts and intents of the heart." (Hebrews 4:12)
The only way we can hope the land we live in is a land holding to a faith in God the Father, Son, And Spirit, then we must know the Bible, speak the Bible, and pray for the hearts and souls of the people to hear and believe.
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As another new member may I suggest that you look at the history of the crusades.
They were a political act of defence by the ' christian ' West, at the invitation of the Byzantine empire against the Islamic East aggression .
Could I also encourage you to read Christian history, men like David Brainard, Martin Henry, John Patton.
To see some of the real hero's of Christianity, if you want defenders of the faith try Willia, lane Craig and his reasonablefaith Web site, or coldcasechristianity.
They will teach you to become a defender of Christianity.
They were a political act of defence by the ' christian ' West, at the invitation of the Byzantine empire against the Islamic East aggression .
Could I also encourage you to read Christian history, men like David Brainard, Martin Henry, John Patton.
To see some of the real hero's of Christianity, if you want defenders of the faith try Willia, lane Craig and his reasonablefaith Web site, or coldcasechristianity.
They will teach you to become a defender of Christianity.
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If the church properly taught eternal judgement (judgement from an eternal perspective) the answers to questions like these would be easy to ascertain.
Killing people in the name of Christ was never done, by either Christ or His disciples.
For the people who think otherwise, they are on the wrong side of this scripture:
"In fact, a time is coming when anyone who kills you will think he is offering a service to God."
Be wary of the "gun and rights cult" that has emerged from the American church. Like the Romans, they've mix men's traditions with religious teachings, are all kinds of abominable ideas have been born from that joining.
Killing people in the name of Christ was never done, by either Christ or His disciples.
For the people who think otherwise, they are on the wrong side of this scripture:
"In fact, a time is coming when anyone who kills you will think he is offering a service to God."
Be wary of the "gun and rights cult" that has emerged from the American church. Like the Romans, they've mix men's traditions with religious teachings, are all kinds of abominable ideas have been born from that joining.
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Crusades:
I wouldn't call the crusades good, but I also wouldn't call them unprovoked.
The Muslims had been attacking and conquering "christian" lands for hundreds of years, and doing quite horrible and unspeakable things.
It should be expected that it provoked a response.
Christians in the modern era don't need to apologize for the Crusades:
1.) They happened a long time ago, by people long dead, and they have nothing to do with us.
2.) They were a response to hundreds of years of cruel Muslim conquest and enslavement.
3.) If not for the crusades, we'd probably all be enslaved and speaking Arabic by now.
4.) Although the "Christian" armies did go crazy at times and do some terrible things themselves, it was primarily a political movement, and I don't think most of those people would meet our current definition of "Christian."
CONCLUSION:
A.) The crusades were terrible events in the distant past but: they were also provoked, they were more political than religious, and they were probably necessary to protect western civilization.
B.) I don't see any reason for us to emulate them.
C.) Although we shouldn't emulate the crusades, I think scripture still gives us every right to reasonable self defense.
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I wouldn't call the crusades good, but I also wouldn't call them unprovoked.
The Muslims had been attacking and conquering "christian" lands for hundreds of years, and doing quite horrible and unspeakable things.
It should be expected that it provoked a response.
Christians in the modern era don't need to apologize for the Crusades:
1.) They happened a long time ago, by people long dead, and they have nothing to do with us.
2.) They were a response to hundreds of years of cruel Muslim conquest and enslavement.
3.) If not for the crusades, we'd probably all be enslaved and speaking Arabic by now.
4.) Although the "Christian" armies did go crazy at times and do some terrible things themselves, it was primarily a political movement, and I don't think most of those people would meet our current definition of "Christian."
CONCLUSION:
A.) The crusades were terrible events in the distant past but: they were also provoked, they were more political than religious, and they were probably necessary to protect western civilization.
B.) I don't see any reason for us to emulate them.
C.) Although we shouldn't emulate the crusades, I think scripture still gives us every right to reasonable self defense.
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