Predestination is misunderstood...

[brightfame52]

What difference does it make 🤔


Well if your basing a doctrine based of this principal it needs answering.

Scripture says man died in the paradise of the garden of eden died it must have been they died spiritualy.

So this scripture here that day we where chosen to be holy and blameless before the the foundation of the world


Has to mean we where chosen to be holy and blameless before the fall.

Where your belief says we where chosen to be saved before the fall.

So I want to address this main point first, before all other points.

Man is dead to God by nature. Didnt you read Rom 5:15

15 But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.

Since the sin of the race in Adam, man is dead and the only thing that can help him is a resurrection from the dead.

 

[FollowerofShiloh]

And you are being held accountable !

That is why I went to that Reformed Website and posted YOUR beliefs so you know what it really is you are believing by claiming to be Reformed. And in that explanation of your beliefs, it is quite clear they are very unbiblical.

 

[brightfame52]

And it STILL does NOT mean God chose a few and decided He wanted everyone
else to go to hell which is what the false doctrines of calvinism teach.






Actually that is not true.

God's Word says all have sinned so we are all responsible for the sin WE have done not considered sinful by the Lord because of the sin of Adam

We were all born in to a world filled with darkness and sin and we all at some point starting sinning ourselves.

That's what the Lord is holding each of us accountable for, not Adam's sin.

Actually it is True. Man by nature is Dead to God. When the elect are quickended its from the dead in sin condition Eph 2:5

5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved)

And quickening from that awful condition is a work of Grace

 

[Thunderrr-mental]

Man is dead to God by nature. Didnt you read Rom 5:15

15 But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.

Since the sin of the race in Adam, man is dead and the only thing that can help him is a resurrection from the dead.

at this point I'm asking questions relating to before the fall.

Answer what I asked of you please

 

[brightfame52]

That is why I went to that Reformed Website and posted YOUR beliefs so you know what it really is you are believing by claiming to be Reformed. And in that explanation of your beliefs, it is quite clear they are very unbiblical.

I dont care what website you went to, you accountable !

 

[Thunderrr-mental]

Actually it is True. Man by nature is Dead to God. When the elect are quickended its from the dead in sin condition Eph 2:5

5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved)

And quickening from that awful condition is a work of Grace

mixing grace and total depravity together does not work

 

[FollowerofShiloh]

I dont care what website you went to, you accountable !

We all are in the fact that we can either accept God or reject God. But your beliefs go even further to make claims that you cannot find in the Bible. That is called man-made beliefs, not Godly beliefs. Man-made beliefs do not award you Heaven, they send you to Hell.

 

[brightfame52]

That is why I went to that Reformed Website and posted YOUR beliefs so you know what it really is you are believing by claiming to be Reformed. And in that explanation of your beliefs, it is quite clear they are very unbiblical.

I dont care what website you went to, you accountable !

at this point I'm asking questions relating to before the fall.

Answer what I asked of you please

What about before the fall ? Before the Fall is before the fall, obviously then Adam wasnt dead to God. DUH

 

[Thunderrr-mental]

Actually it is True. Man by nature is Dead to God. When the elect are quickended its from the dead in sin condition Eph 2:5

5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved)

And quickening from that awful condition is a work of Grace

he addressed you on the fact man is not born with responsibility for Adam sin.

Your addressing him on something he hasn't said

 

[brightfame52]

We all are in the fact that we can either accept God or reject God. But your beliefs go even further to make claims that you cannot find in the Bible. That is called man-made beliefs, not Godly beliefs. Man-made beliefs do not award you Heaven, they send you to Hell.

You will be held accountable for what is scriptural, regardless if you call them man made

 

[Thunderrr-mental]

I dont care what website you went to, you accountable !


What about before the fall ? Before the Fall is before the fall, obviously then Adam wasnt dead to God. DUH

your getting offensive again please answer the original question

 

[brightfame52]

he addressed you on the fact man is not born with responsibility for Adam sin.

Your addressing him on something he hasn't said

I dont care what he says, Rom 5:15

15 But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.

 

[brightfame52]

your getting offensive again please answer the original question

You have the answer Im going to give you

 

[Thunderrr-mental]

You have the answer Im going to give you

you haven't even answered the question i asked you

 

[brightfame52]

you haven't even answered the question i asked you

You still have the answer I m going to give you

 

[Thunderrr-mental]

You still have the answer I m going to give you

did you understand the question here 🤔

Scripture says man died in the paradise of the garden of eden, which means man must have died spiritualy.

So to this scripture, you know the one, he chose us to be holy and blameless before the the foundation of the world

Surely this has to mean we where chosen to be holy and blameless before the fall.

Where your belief says we where chosen to be saved before the fall.

So what where we chosen for before fall.

If we died spiritualy before the fall then this must mean we where made spiritualy alive before for the fall.

This Also must mean, we where in him before the fall to be holy and blameless before the fall.

So can you tell me why your belief says we where chosen to be saved before the fall according to this we was spiritualy alive which means saved before the fall

 

[brightfame52]

Not only were they predestinated to Faith, but predestinated to be saved They were saved already in the purpose of God before the world began 2 Tim 1:9

9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,


Eph 2:8-9

8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

9 Not of works, lest any man should boast. 1

 

[Thunderrr-mental]

Not only were they predestinated to Faith, but predestinated to be saved They were saved already in the purpose of God before the world began 2 Tim 1:9

9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,


Eph 2:8-9

8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

9 Not of works, lest any man should boast. 1

according to genesis 3 Along with what I have just asked of you, genesis 3, without a shadow of a doubt,.says God chose to not know what man would do next before the fall.

They where saved untill the fall.

Which meant every other child being born would be born in a fallen state also after the fall

So how could those unborn children have been chosen to be saved before the fall.

 

[brightfame52]

according to genesis 3 Along with what I have just asked of you, genesis 3, without a shadow of a doubt,.says God chose to not know what man would do next before the fall.

They where saved untill the fall.

Which meant every other child being born would be born in a fallen state also after the fall

So how could those unborn children have been chosen to be saved before the fall.

I dont know what you talking about. All this is coming out of left field

 

[Stan_the_Man]

Man by nature is Dead to God.

If true, then God puts evil in every little baby, which is the clavinist claim that God made all people to be evil - that's because the god of calvinism is evil because they actually follow the devil.

God's Word tells us ALL have sinned and fallen short of God's glory, so we all sinned after getting here and that is the sin we are being held accountable for, not Adam's sin as we did not inherit his sin since we all did out own sin.

15 But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.

Sin came UPON each person. It doesn't say we were all born with sin in us since God did not create babies to be sinners.

You have the answer Im going to give you

A faulty non-biblical answer from the false doctrines of calvinism which came from the devil.

9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

God said it was His will that ALL men be saved and none should parish


Titus 2:11,12
For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,
Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;

2 Peter 3:9
The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

Acts 17:30
And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:

John 12:32
And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw ALL men unto me.

Hebrews 2:9
But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.

John 3:16
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

I dont know what you talking about. All this is coming out of left field

That's because you are in the calvinist dugout sitting on the bench drinking the calvinist kool-aid!