Did Jesus Die on The Cross for The Just/Elect/Saved Whose Names Are Written in The Book of Life OR
- Thread starter MerSee
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was there anything spiritual about there human nature before the fall,
And what nature did they have after the fall
There has always been something spiritual about man, but not Spiritual. In the Fall, all aspects of man were corrupted including his spirit. His spirit remains intact. It simply doesn't work as God originally made it. God made man good. He is no longer good. Since this is the estate we inherit from Adam, we are no longer good, and this is the basis for Paul writing in Romans 3 that none are good; not even one.
Man's nature after the Fall was still human.
That's very unlikely. Did you read my New Birth analogy in 1665? (That's the post number, not the year I wrote it.)
Very good question. YES, Adam was a living soul. God created him as living being in every sense of that word. God breathed his Spirit into Adam. How else could he have died spiritually on the day sinned? Death logically presupposes antecedent life.
After the fall, after Adam died -- he literally lost his spiritual lifeline to God. He became separated from him, alienated from him, estranged. He lost his connection to God. And there is not a thing man can do to get reconnected. No one except Christ can bridge that gap between man and God. A man must be born again...born from ABOVE -- and that is way above our pay grade. The new birth is a supernatural act of God.
I thought this was kind of 101 stuff to be honest. That said I also know it's IMPOSSIBLE to have a clue about our spirit before we are born again, but after this was no longer something hard to grasp. Before the fall man was spiritually alive and we were connected to God our Creator.
The day man fell was the day our spirit surely died, taking our connection with God along with it. So this connection with God was severed for every man born of Adam, aka all of us save 1. Jesus our Christ was not born of Adam, He was born of His Spirit, into the world through the virgin Mary. The 2nd Adam, the Godman Jesus our Christ, born of the Spirit, born connected to God as we were created to be, sent to be the perfect sacrifice, the only ONE God could be "well pleased" with. The one with NO sin, with NO blemish, who laid down His life to glorify the Father in perfect obedience, to pay the price for sin once and for all, through Him.
Now the perfectly just and loving God can righteously forgive a filthy sinner like me by applying Jesus blood and death on the cross to me so that He can gift to me the ability to see myself in truth and to turn from it to Him. This resurrects my dead spirit, the dead spirit we are all born with, and it forever reconciles it to His Spirit, reconnecting us to Him as we were created to be. As we were before the fall. Make sense?
Not functionally. But the individual doesn't stop being the temple of God. They lose the blessing of God and are subject to chastening, but they don't lose their salvation.
hey Jim
Ok so it must be that man was chosen to be holy and blameless before the fall
And they where chosen to saved after the fall.
Where as people are saying man was chosen to saved before the fall.
Then this begs the question it's not your fault you where born spiritualy dead
So surely you are deserving of Gods grace in some way yes.
And surely total depravity is delusional.
Wow you just put your spin and opinion on a WHOLE LOT and I honestly can't see how what you're saying here is connected to my comment at all. What I said is not complicated for those of us with our eyes open, not at all. Very simple and easy to understand.hey Jim
Ok so it must be that man was chosen to be holy and blameless before the fall
And they where chosen to saved after the fall.
Where as people are saying man was chosen to saved before the fall.
Then this begs the question it's not your fault you where born spiritualy dead
So surely you are deserving of Gods grace in some way yes.
And surely total depravity is delusional.
What you are doing with what I said is completely unnecessary and over thinking/adding to/trying to push a viewpoint and I don't get why. What I said was simple and I stand by it, all the other stuff you're injecting I would never add myself.
I was talking about other people opinions Jim. Who will just not anything other than total depravity and unmerited grace
Buy I'm not pushing you into anything.
But you could answer or anyone else can answer
Here the question again
Ok so it must be that man was chosen to be holy and blameless before the fall
And they where chosen to be saved after the fall.
Where as people are saying man was chosen to saved before the fall.
Then this begs the question it's not your fault you where born spiritualy dead
So surely you are deserving of Gods grace in some way yes.
And surely total depravity is delusional.
I believe this is a kind of "silly" question.
I believe that no man can do anything to save himself. I believe that we are told to repent and believe in Jesus to be saved. I believe repentance is a gift, not something we "do". I believe God is sovereign over EVERYTHING and I believe we have choice, although I hate the term "freewill". I believe that not only is there nothing we can do to save ourselves, that God gets ALL glory for it. I understand this to be necessary due to the fact there is NOTHING I do to "get saved", in my mind this includes me "choosing" Him. Mostly because of my own personal testimony and how God saved me, which completely prevents me from having ANYTHING AT ALLL to do with being saved, wasn't even sure what happen at first.
So yes I think the framing of this question is problematic in itself, but if you have been born again then you are elect, and vice versa. They come together by necessity in my estimation. I really don't like thinking of it in this context though, I can't stand the Calvinist vs. whatever self righteous position debate. Mostly because I'm thrown into it and labeled like an animal most the time, but I just think of them as different ways of thinking about the same things and NO reason to be so ugly to each other. Not accusing you or anyone else here of anything, I just personally hate this debate more than most others. Mostly because of people creating their own versions of what others believe and then attack them for that rather than listen at all. That's my experience anyway. Just pointless.
Yes, I believe that, because thats part of their purchased Salvation by Christs Death for them, to be born again. Thats why He rose again from the dead, its by the power of His Resurrection they are born again 1 Pet 1:3
Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, to the strangers scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia,
2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.
3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us[The elect] again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ. Because of his great mercy he has given us new birth into a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead CSB
Praised be God, Father of our Lord Yeshua the Messiah, who, in keeping with his great mercy, has caused us, through the resurrection of Yeshua the Messiah from the dead, to be born again to a living hope,CJB
This is only for Gods elect Christ redeemed !
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Niki7
Guest
to which Cameron replied:
I don't know what your comment has to do with what I said above, so provide my assumptions and we can discuss them.
Perhaps explain why YOU believe as you do. You seem to be claiming the ability to delve into people's psyches by your statement. smh
Sure. You simply change what is said and try to flip it around by asking the same thing over and over and over in as many ways as you seem able to come up with. What do you call that exactly?
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Niki7
Guest
So kindly explain what the 'more' above in your post reflects as to your thoughts on the matter
N
Niki7
Guest
He is beginning to sound like some DA trying to prove a case without enough evidence
That was exactly my point. Our desire must be changed, then we will believe!