Did Jesus Die on The Cross for The Just/Elect/Saved Whose Names Are Written in The Book of Life OR

[FollowerofShiloh]

Sure. But the Apostles weren't the only ones who heard. Lots of people heard Jesus teach.

During the Last Supper from the Gospel of John we get a more in depth look at what happened after Judas left to betray Jesus. So now it's just the (11). Jesus Prays this (just a portion of the Prayer).

14 I have given them your word, and the world has hated them because they are not of the world, just as I am not of the world.
15 I do not ask that you take them out of the world, but that you keep them from the evil one.
16 They are not of the world, just as I am not of the world.
17 Sanctify them in the truth; your word is truth.
18 As you sent me into the world, so I have sent them into the world.


Also, let us not forget who was given the keys.
19, Jesus says to Peter, "I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on Earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on Earth shall be loosed in heaven.

And then we see Peter.
38 And Peter said to them, “Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.


So even though what you post is correct, it's not specific to the 11 as what I have just posted.

 

[Cameron143]

During the Last Supper from the Gospel of John we get a more in depth look at what happened after Judas left to betray Jesus. So now it's just the (11). Jesus Prays this (just a portion of the Prayer).

14 I have given them your word, and the world has hated them because they are not of the world, just as I am not of the world.
15 I do not ask that you take them out of the world, but that you keep them from the evil one.
16 They are not of the world, just as I am not of the world.
17 Sanctify them in the truth; your word is truth.
18 As you sent me into the world, so I have sent them into the world.


Also, let us not forget who was given the keys.
19, Jesus says to Peter, "I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on Earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on Earth shall be loosed in heaven.

And then we see Peter.
38 And Peter said to them, “Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.


So even though what you post is correct, it's not specific to the 11 as what I have just posted.

Sure, the Apostles were given authority and endued with power, but they were far from the only ones who heard or were taught.
I'm curious why you keep adding Acts 2:38. Peter said way more than just this. And also, the gift of the Spirit was what they had just witnessed happen to the Apostles. Do you think they just got saved?

 

[FollowerofShiloh]

Sure, the Apostles were given authority and endued with power, but they were far from the only ones who heard or were taught.
I'm curious why you keep adding Acts 2:38. Peter said way more than just this. And also, the gift of the Spirit was what they had just witnessed happen to the Apostles. Do you think they just got saved?

Because Jesus charged the Disciples with the Great Commission. So I was showing how they were doing that by saying the exact thing Jesus taught them. And the reason the others, as in not the 11 specifically hand picked, I keep mentioning is because they are not specifically mentioned by example of doing what Jesus commanded like we read from the Disciples.

It's a point of reference I am using.

If someone asks show me in the Bible people doing something that Jesus commanded them to do after His Ascension?
I am not going to say there's these people you never read about doing them (but we believe they did them). No, I will go to where I can show them Peter, John, Phillip that are "specifically written" from Book of Acts to the End to ensure my proof is found in the Bible, and not just by what we might believe.

 

[Cameron143]

Because Jesus charged the Disciples with the Great Commission. So I was showing how they were doing that by saying the exact thing Jesus taught them. And the reason the others, as in not the 11 specifically hand picked, I keep mentioning is because they are not specifically mentioned by example of doing what Jesus commanded like we read from the Disciples.

It's a point of reference I am using.

If someone asks show me in the Bible people doing something that Jesus commanded them to do after His Ascension?
I am not going to say there's these people you never read about doing them (but we believe they did them). No, I will go to where I can show them Peter, John, Phillip that are "specifically written" from Book of Acts to the End to ensure my proof is found in the Bible, and not just by what we might believe.

Sure, but you could have gone to lots of places to do that. You're stuck on Acts 2:38. So I renew my question: why? The gift of the Spirit is simply what was promised in the OT in Joel and came to fruition at Pentecost. It has been repeated many times throughout the book of Acts and throughout history since to a lesser degree. It's not the action of the Spirit that places us into the body of Christ. It's simply an outward experiential sealing confirming an inward work of God.

 

[FollowerofShiloh]

Sure, but you could have gone to lots of places to do that. You're stuck on Acts 2:38. So I renew my question: why? The gift of the Spirit is simply what was promised in the OT in Joel and came to fruition at Pentecost. It has been repeated many times throughout the book of Acts and throughout history since to a lesser degree. It's not the action of the Spirit that places us into the body of Christ. It's simply an outward experiential sealing confirming an inward work of God.

Because it says word for word according to the points that Jesus said you must do to be saved.
Hebrews 2:3 is about salvation, what Jesus said, who heard what Jesus said and confirmed it.

What did Jesus say to them?

1. 47 and that repentance for the forgiveness of sins should be proclaimed in his name to all nations, beginning from Jerusalem.

2. 16 Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.

3. 38 Whoever believes in me, as the Scripture has said, ‘Out of his heart will flow rivers of living water.’”
39 Now this he said about the Spirit, whom those who believed in him were to receive the Holy Spirit.

So Jesus said to His Disciples 1. Repent, 2. be Baptized, 3. receive the Holy Spirit

Peter confirmed Jesus Words:
38 And Peter said to them, “Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Acts 2:38 says specifically what Jesus taught:
So Jesus said to His Disciples 1. Repent, 2. be Baptized, 3. receive the Holy Spirit

 

[FollowerofShiloh]

Jesus said:
1. Repent for forgiveness of sins proclaimed in His Name
2. be Baptized
3. receive Holy Spirit

Acts 2:38 both confirms and covers ALL of what Jesus said must be done to be saved basically word for word verbatim:
38 And Peter said to them, “Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

 

[Cameron143]

Jesus said:
1. Repent for forgiveness of sins proclaimed in His Name
2. be Baptized
3. receive Holy Spirit

Acts 2:38 both confirms and covers ALL of what Jesus said must be done to be saved basically word for word verbatim:
38 And Peter said to them, “Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

So anyone who does these 3 things gets saved?

 

[selahsays]

First, Jesus specifically prayed for only the elect. He prayed for his disciples in earshot and he prayed for all those who would believe the gospel through their preaching. He explicitly omitted the non-elect (the world). So there's that.

Secondly, if the non-elect are in view in Rom 8:30, then this means anyone and everyone who hears the external call of the gospel is saved, since the passage clearly goes on to say that God ALSO justified and glorified those people he called. And this passage says nothing at all about how anyone must respond to the call! This passage is silent on faith because faith or repentance are not Paul's focus. Rather, it is God's WORK that is emphasized in this passage. This is why scripture teaches two different kinds of call.

I agree now!

 

[FollowerofShiloh]

So anyone who does these 3 things gets saved?

It's what Jesus said in His Own words. Are you possibly implying that Jesus could be wrong?

 

[Niki7]

It's what Jesus said in His Own words. Are you possibly implying that Jesus could be wrong?

Cameron believes that regeneration takes place BEFORE salvation and I do not think he is being exactly forthright in what he believes

Not sure when regeneration takes place. It is prior to salvation but not necessarily long before it.

Post 3831 in the predestination is misunderstood thread

 

[PaulThomson]

Hi, BB …
I actually was using the word “foreknowledge” in the sense that God chose His election on the basis of His foreknowledge of them (individually). For example, in Jeremiah 1, God tells Jeremiah:
Now the word of the LORD came to me saying, "Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, and before you were born I consecrated you; I appointed you a prophet to the nations."

- Jeremiah 1:4-5

This text simply says that God knew Jeremiah as a fertilised zygote, his unformed substance, and was involved in Jeremiah's growth in the womb, recording every event and every day as he was being formed. That is how God knew Jeremiah before he was formed in the womb. And God had a plan in mind for Jeremiah proclaim God's messages to the nations. There does not appear to me to be any need to add to this text some extraneous foreign idea of God knowing and choosing Jeremiah from before the creation of the world.

 

[Rufus]

The Gospels and most of what Peter and John wrote are what they heard Jesus say in person + inspired by the Holy Spirit. The others are Inspired by the Holy Spirit.

Look what Paul continues to say after he tells us about his revelation.
18 Then after three years I went up to Jerusalem to visit Cephas and remained with him fifteen days.

15 days with Peter's teaching.

But Paul was preaching the gospel for at least three years prior to going to Jerusalem. Also, the entire NT is Christ's revelation!

 

[Rufus]

I agree now! View attachment 261936

Praise the Lord! He has opened your eyes to see! It is my hope and my prayer, sister, that He will do the same for you when I beam up my posts on the Fall of Man.

 

[Cameron143]

It's what Jesus said in His Own words. Are you possibly implying that Jesus could be wrong?

I'm saying that's works salvation. That's why I always point out the activity of God in Acts 2:37 that quickens an individual. They have already been placed into Christ. All these outward signs testify to this.
And the point I was making earlier was there is a difference between the gift or baptism of the Spirit and the Spirit baptizing an individual into the body of Christ.

 

[selahsays]

This text simply says that God knew Jeremiah as a fertilised zygote, his unformed substance, and was involved in Jeremiah's growth in the womb, recording every event and every day as he was being formed. That is how God knew Jeremiah before he was formed in the womb. And God had a plan in mind for Jeremiah proclaim God's messages to the nations. There does not appear to me to be any need to add to this text some extraneous foreign idea of God knowing and choosing Jeremiah from before the creation of the world.

foolish unstudi

Praise the Lord! He has opened your eyes to see! It is my hope and my prayer, sister, that He will do the same for you when I beam up my posts on the Fall of Man.

I can’t wait!!!

 

[Cameron143]

Cameron believes that regeneration takes place BEFORE salvation and I do not think he is being exactly forthright in what he believes

Post 3831 in the predestination is misunderstood thread

I have no problem explaining my beliefs. Exactly what happens when hearing is given and hearts are pricked?

 

[Niki7]

I have no problem explaining my beliefs. Exactly what happens when hearing is given and hearts are pricked?

Uh huh

 

[Niki7]

I'm saying that's works salvation. That's why I always point out the activity of God in Acts 2:37 that quickens an individual. They have already been placed into Christ. All these outward signs testify to this.
And the point I was making earlier was there is a difference between the gift or baptism of the Spirit and the Spirit baptizing an individual into the body of Christ.

People are not regenerated before receiving or believing in Christ. That may be your understanding but that is common to Calvinists in general and their theories about election

 

[MerSee]

I'm saying that's works salvation. That's why I always point out the activity of God in Acts 2:37 that quickens an individual. They have already been placed into Christ. All these outward signs testify to this.
And the point I was making earlier was there is a difference between the gift or baptism of the Spirit and the Spirit baptizing an individual into the body of Christ.

Do you believe it is necessary to recieve the body of Christ to be saved?

 

[Cameron143]

People are not regenerated before receiving or believing in Christ. That may be your understanding but that is common to Calvinists in general and their theories about election

It's actually what is taught in a number of places. I'll walk you through the scriptures if you care for that.
I don't believe what I believe because of Calvin or anyone else. Just like you, I study the scriptures and come to my own understanding. I haven't mentioned election or predestination on purpose. They are buzz words that polarize individuals in their already held beliefs and ruin earnest discussion. Referring to Calvin has the same effect.
If you care to have a discussion, I always welcome that. Like you, I can find my way around the Bible and show scripture for my positions. We may not agree what particular passages teach, but we could probably attempt to hear each other's perspective and learn a little something along the way.