Did Jesus Die on The Cross for The Just/Elect/Saved Whose Names Are Written in The Book of Life OR

[FollowerofShiloh]

Okay...then watch what I'm about to do:

1 Tim 1:10-11
10 for adulterers and perverts, for slave traders and liars and perjurers — and for whatever else is contrary to the sound doctrine 11 that conforms to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, which he entrusted to me.
NIV

1 Tim 4:16
16 Watch your life and doctrine closely. Persevere in them, because if you do, you will save both yourself and your hearers.
NIV

2 Tim 4:3
3 For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine . Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear.
NIV

Titus 1:9
9 He must hold firmly to the trustworthy message as it has been taught, so that he can encourage others by sound doctrine and refute those who oppose it.
NIV

Titus 2:1
2:1 You must teach what is in accord with sound doctrine
NIV

Do you have anymore faux pearls of useless, worldly wisdom for us?

From Jesus own mouth:
17 Anyone who chooses to do the will of God will find out whether my teaching comes from God or whether I speak on my own.

ANYONE is able to choose to do the Will of God.

 

[Rufus]

Never said there was commands in those verses.

So why are babbling about God's command to Adam? What does that nonsense have to do with John17 or Rom 8:30?

 

[FollowerofShiloh]

Paul learned directly from Jesus. Not from any man, as the writer claimed in Heb 2:3. Learn to read.

Paul is saying, he heard Jesus' words confirmed by the Disciples, if we are making this personal to Paul.

 

[FollowerofShiloh]

So why are babbling about God's command to Adam? What does that nonsense have to do with John17 or Rom 8:30?

I said Free Will in that post you completely ignored.

 

[FollowerofShiloh]

More FREE WILL

7 Let the wicked forsake their ways and the unrighteous their thoughts. Let them turn to the LORD, and he will have mercy on them, and to our God, for he will freely pardon.

 

[Rufus]

From Jesus own mouth:
17 Anyone who chooses to do the will of God will find out whether my teaching comes from God or whether I speak on my own.

ANYONE is able to choose to do the Will of God.

IF anyone chooses... That's the condition. Why did you omit the conjunction "if". All my translations start with that conjunction.

Also, it does not mean that anyone has the ability to fulfill that condition. See Rom 3:10-17; Rom 8:8; Jer 13:23, etc.

 

[Rufus]

I said Free Will in that post you completely ignored.

So what does free will have to do with John 17 and Rom 8:30?

 

[Rufus]

More FREE WILL

7 Let the wicked forsake their ways and the unrighteous their thoughts. Let them turn to the LORD, and he will have mercy on them, and to our God, for he will freely pardon.

Moral obligation does not imply ability to fulfill the obligation. All it implies is moral duty. Unregenerate mankind cannot make choices contrary to their sinful nature. They can make choices that are only consistent with that kind of nature.

 

[FollowerofShiloh]

IF anyone chooses... That's the condition. Why did you omit the conjunction "if". All my translations start with that conjunction.

Also, it does not mean that anyone has the ability to fulfill that condition. See Rom 3:10-17; Rom 8:8; Jer 13:23, etc.

I copied it from a list of same verses I was reading.

 

[FollowerofShiloh]

So what does free will have to do with John 17 and Rom 8:30?

It was a reference to that entire post. You just singled out the verses on your own doing.

 

[FollowerofShiloh]

Moral obligation does not imply ability to fulfill the obligation. All it implies is moral duty. Unregenerate mankind cannot make choices contrary to their sinful nature. They can make choices that are only consistent with that kind of nature.

It implies they have the ability to do as the verse claims.

 

[Rufus]

Paul is saying, he heard Jesus' words confirmed by the Disciples, if we are making this personal to Paul.

No, he's not. He received instruction directly from the Lord, which by the way is a prerequisite for the apostolic office. All the apostles were instructed by Jesus.

 

[Magenta]

Paul learned directly from Jesus. Not from any man, as the writer claimed in Heb 2:3. Learn to read.

Hebrews 2:3 does not say what you claim.

 

[Rufus]

It implies they have the ability to do as the verse claims.

The verse says nothing about ability. That is your personal presupposition that you read into the passage. Spiritually dead men have no spiritual ability to please God.

 

[Rufus]

Hebrews 2:3 does not say what you claim.

Well then...pray tell...what is it saying? And for that matter, who is "us"?

 

[Magenta]

Well then...pray tell...what is it saying?

Do you see the word teach or taught, or a first person singular? I sure don't.

Nor does having something confirmed by others mean they taught it to you.

 

[FollowerofShiloh]

The verse says nothing about ability. That is your personal presupposition that you read into the passage. Spiritually dead men have no spiritual ability to please God.

It doesn't say what you claim definitely. It says, ... Let the wicked forsake their ways and the unrighteous their thoughts. Let them turn to the LORD

That's having the ability to forsake their ways, their thoughts, and turn to the LORD.

 

[FollowerofShiloh]

And for that matter, who is "us"?

The Jews, to who the audience in Hebrews is directed to.

 

[7thMoon]

I know this will not be well-received, but he died for Israel, and god-fearers who were pro-israel.

 

[Rufus]

Do you see the word teach or taught, or a first person singular? I sure don't.

Nor does having something confirmed by others mean they taught it to you.

On the other hand, according to Paul in Gal 1:12, he neither received the gospel from any man, nor was he taught it. He received it by direct revelation from Jesus, the same as all the other apostles did. But Heb 2:3 is essentially saying that salvation was received from (confirmed by) other men.

Interestingly, when Paul made his first trip to Jerusalem after his conversion, there is no mention whatsoever that he either sought confirmation from the disciples or that the disciples offered confirmation (Act 9:26-30). But this passage does say that Paul saw Jesus and Jesus had spoken to him.

As I just recently stated, this direct revelation from the Lord was a prerequisite for apostleship just as being an eyewitness to the resurrected Jesus was!