Did Jesus Die on The Cross for The Just/Elect/Saved Whose Names Are Written in The Book of Life OR
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That is not what I said however. I am positive that God effectively directs our steps towards the ability to choose. He certainly did that for me when I was just 5 years old and He has faithfully kept and guided me ever since.
Mercy does not equate to the over taking of another's will and I cannot fathom why you might seem to think it does?
Further, the working of God within the individual (by His Spirit) refers to a saved individual. Indeed, what do we have of salvation that we did not receive. It is the GIFT of God and by His mercy. Nothing whatsoever about a person having no choice in the matter.
Romans can be somewhat difficult in its presentation at times, but at no time does Paul state he was forced into salvation nor does he indicate that anyone else is. Despite the fact he was waylaid on his journey to further attack Christians, by Christ in His risen forum, Paul never states that he was, by that meeting, forced to accept Christ.
The account relates that Paul actually ASKED who was speaking to Him. He was not forced into anything. Jesus told Paul that He was the One Paul was persecuting. (note Jesus did not say why are you persecuting Christians. We, as believers, are a part of the body of Christ and therefore part of His persecution)
So if Paul asked, he was not immediately saved against his will but still had his own reasoning and could ask a question and decide his response.
Mercy does not equate to the over taking of another's will and I cannot fathom why you might seem to think it does?
Further, the working of God within the individual (by His Spirit) refers to a saved individual. Indeed, what do we have of salvation that we did not receive. It is the GIFT of God and by His mercy. Nothing whatsoever about a person having no choice in the matter.
Romans can be somewhat difficult in its presentation at times, but at no time does Paul state he was forced into salvation nor does he indicate that anyone else is. Despite the fact he was waylaid on his journey to further attack Christians, by Christ in His risen forum, Paul never states that he was, by that meeting, forced to accept Christ.
The account relates that Paul actually ASKED who was speaking to Him. He was not forced into anything. Jesus told Paul that He was the One Paul was persecuting. (note Jesus did not say why are you persecuting Christians. We, as believers, are a part of the body of Christ and therefore part of His persecution)
So if Paul asked, he was not immediately saved against his will but still had his own reasoning and could ask a question and decide his response.
Your idea of NRs (whatever that is) is all knotted up just like your knickers.
You believe there are those that have no opportunity to repent. Yet, John gives everyone, everywhere the directive to "repent."
Your gospel throws a shadow of doubt upon the mercy of God. That's rather... I don't know, I'm lost for words... adventurous, at least.
You believe there are those that have no opportunity to repent. Yet, John gives everyone, everywhere the directive to "repent."
Your gospel throws a shadow of doubt upon the mercy of God. That's rather... I don't know, I'm lost for words... adventurous, at least.
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You could start a new denomination with that name. Why not just call yourself something biblical like The Way? 
Also, I never called myself a Calvinist. But I strongly believe in the Five Solas and the Five Doctrines of Grace as taught in the scriptures.
So only those who are his are his children? But I don't get it. Don't you believe that God loves each and every person in the world? If you do, I refer you to my question in 2776. Would love to hear your answer.
Also, I never called myself a Calvinist. But I strongly believe in the Five Solas and the Five Doctrines of Grace as taught in the scriptures.So only those who are his are his children? But I don't get it. Don't you believe that God loves each and every person in the world? If you do, I refer you to my question in 2776. Would love to hear your answer.
The Bible states that God created the lake of fire for the devil and his angels. Not people. They may end up there, but that will be on them.
Then He [God] will say to those on His left, 'Depart from Me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels' (Matthew 25:41).
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With regards to the post in the middle:
It seems you may be trying to reconcile elect with choice with regards to salvation as you indicate in the second post above.
How do you identify what you say are the elect as separate from those you apparently say are not the elect but are saved
I know what Jesus prayed, but truly I do not see where what He said indicates two classes of Christian...those you identify as the elect sent to spread the gospel to non-elects That would indicate 2 classes of Christian as per your understanding.
Who are the elect you state have been sent and are a mission from God? We all have same instructions found in scripture
It seems you may be trying to reconcile elect with choice with regards to salvation as you indicate in the second post above.
How do you identify what you say are the elect as separate from those you apparently say are not the elect but are saved
I know what Jesus prayed, but truly I do not see where what He said indicates two classes of Christian...those you identify as the elect sent to spread the gospel to non-elects That would indicate 2 classes of Christian as per your understanding.
Who are the elect you state have been sent and are a mission from God? We all have same instructions found in scripture
What in the world does that even mean? Who owns this ability that "God effectively directs our steps toward"? Is God directing our steps to some latent ability within us that we don't know we have? Or is he directing our steps to an alien ability outside of ourselves?
Can you provide any scripture to support your premise?
And I cannot fathom Why would you think of Grace or Mercy as "forcing" someone to make choices against their will.
And I know of no Reformed person who does not think that all God's image-bearers' are free moral agents, even though at the same time all unregenerate people in the world are in bondage to their sinful nature.
Here is "novel" idea for you: What if the power of God's Grace puts new desires into our hearts that make us willing to choose what is right[eous] rather than what is evil? Would you still consider that as God "forcing" his will down anyone's throat? Did God force his will upon Abimelech in Gen 20 to keep him from sinning against Sarah?
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Yes, and Paul, as we read in Acts 9:15, was a chosen vessel.
But the Lord said to him, "Go, for he is a chosen vessel of Mine to bear My name before Gentiles, kings, and the children of Israel. "For I will show him how many things he must suffer for My name's sake."
We can read all about the subject of election in Romans 8:
Now He who searches the hearts knows what the mind of the Spirit is, because He makes intercession for the saints according to the will of God. And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are the called according to His purpose. For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren. Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified. What then shall we say to these things? If God is for us, who can be against us? He who did not spare His own Son, but delivered Him up for us all, how shall He not with Him also freely give us all things? Who shall bring a charge against God's elect? It is God who justifies. Who is he who condemns? It is Christ who died, and furthermore is also risen, who is even at the right hand of God, who also makes intercession for us. - Romans 8:27-34
An example of election was when Jesus first called His disciples. Jesus knew each one from before the foundation of the world. Why? ….because God chose each one of His elect. Notice that Jesus never begged or pleaded with His disciples to follow Him. He just said"Follow Me!" and each disciple immediately dropped what they were doing and followed Him. —selah
But the Lord said to him, "Go, for he is a chosen vessel of Mine to bear My name before Gentiles, kings, and the children of Israel. "For I will show him how many things he must suffer for My name's sake."
We can read all about the subject of election in Romans 8:
Now He who searches the hearts knows what the mind of the Spirit is, because He makes intercession for the saints according to the will of God. And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are the called according to His purpose. For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren. Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified. What then shall we say to these things? If God is for us, who can be against us? He who did not spare His own Son, but delivered Him up for us all, how shall He not with Him also freely give us all things? Who shall bring a charge against God's elect? It is God who justifies. Who is he who condemns? It is Christ who died, and furthermore is also risen, who is even at the right hand of God, who also makes intercession for us. - Romans 8:27-34
An example of election was when Jesus first called His disciples. Jesus knew each one from before the foundation of the world. Why? ….because God chose each one of His elect. Notice that Jesus never begged or pleaded with His disciples to follow Him. He just said"Follow Me!" and each disciple immediately dropped what they were doing and followed Him. —selah
Let’s look at Jeremiah 1: Did Jeremiah have a choice?
Then the word of the LORD came to me, saying: "Before I formed you in the womb I knew you; Before you were born I sanctified you; I ordained you a prophet to the nations." Then said I: "Ah, Lord GOD! Behold, I cannot speak, for I am a youth." But the LORD said to me: "Do not say, 'I am a youth,' For you shall go to all to whom I send you, And whatever I command you, you shall speak. Do not be afraid of their faces, For I am with you to deliver you," says the LORD. Then the LORD put forth His hand and touched my mouth, and the LORD said to me: "Behold, I have put My words in your mouth. See, I have this day set you over the nations and over the kingdoms, To root out and to pull down, To destroy and to throw down, To build and to plant."
- Jeremiah 1:4-10
Then the word of the LORD came to me, saying: "Before I formed you in the womb I knew you; Before you were born I sanctified you; I ordained you a prophet to the nations." Then said I: "Ah, Lord GOD! Behold, I cannot speak, for I am a youth." But the LORD said to me: "Do not say, 'I am a youth,' For you shall go to all to whom I send you, And whatever I command you, you shall speak. Do not be afraid of their faces, For I am with you to deliver you," says the LORD. Then the LORD put forth His hand and touched my mouth, and the LORD said to me: "Behold, I have put My words in your mouth. See, I have this day set you over the nations and over the kingdoms, To root out and to pull down, To destroy and to throw down, To build and to plant."
- Jeremiah 1:4-10
Yes, and as mentioned in a previous post to you, where I commented on how one person said that some may have needed help from God, as if perhaps they think they did not, laying down the hostility of their self-willed, opposed-to-God mind all by themselves with absolutely no help from Him...it boggles the mind that any could oppose that we all like sheep have gone astray... and there is also Ephesians 2:3 ~ All of us also lived among them at one time, fulfilling the cravings of our flesh and indulging its desires and thoughts. Like the rest, we were by nature children of wrath... and Ephesians 2:12 ~ remember that at that time you were separate from Christ, alienated from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers to the covenants of the promise, without hope and without God in the world... along with, Once you were alienated from God and were hostile in your minds because of your evil deeds - which I gave that person earlier. I would like to say, BillyBob, that some of the things I have just seen said of reformed persons I would not attribute to you at all, and I did see your response to me earlier, but was at work, and am now home, having just had dinner, and settling in for the evening... I would like to respond to that, and hope to do so at some point in the near future .