And you have proven you know doctrine more than scripture. I am sure the wise are bewildered by you.
Did Jesus Die on The Cross for The Just/Elect/Saved Whose Names Are Written in The Book of Life OR
- Thread starter MerSee
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Another Pernicious Problem with NR understanding of Jn 3:16
As most of us know, NR folks believe the term rendered "world" in the above titled text is to be understood strictly in the distributive sense, that is to say that God loves each and every person in the world. And, of course, in v.17 God sent Jesus into the world to merely make salvation available to each and every person, as well.
But a few weeks ago I asked everyone (especially NRs) why would Jesus explicitly omit the world from his High Priestly prayer to his Father in John 17, knowing that his Father so loved each and every person it? Indeed...a perplexing theological problem -- to which no one to date has proffered a reasonable, coherent solution. Now to the point of this post. With all the back 'n' forth between Mr. Shiloh and myself about the shaky faith of the post-Cross disciples of Christ, it has occurred to me that all the post-resurrection appearances of the Lord for the 40-day period he remained here were limited to HIS OWN chosen people! All his appearances were restricted to his Father's elect! (While I have not personally studied what the actual number of those instances were, I do recall reading somewhere many moons ago that there was supposedly 13 separate instances in which Jesus appeared to one or more of his disciples.) So...my question is: Since NRs believe that God so dearly loves each and every person in the world, then why would Jesus limit his post-resurrection appearances to only the elect? Why didn't he make any appearances to at least all the Jewish unbelievers in Palestine who God loved so much? Why did he avoid making public appearances? Why didn't he revisit the temple? Why did he cease public ministry altogether?
This inquiring mind is most curious to know...since God allegedly so dearly loves the entire world in the distributive sense.
[QUOTE="FollowerofShiloh, post: 5269141, member: 328825"]It would be a difficult thing to follow Someone, who "chose you to follow Him" and you believe is God and He talks about resurrection but did not see His Own Resurrection. Everything else Jesus proved to them and they saw with their own eyes. So it only stands to believe Jesus would make sure the Disciples saw Him Resurrected.
How could you preach DBR without seeing the Resurrection?[/QUOTE]
Really? Tell me: How does Scripture define Faith, Mr. Einstein?
How could you preach DBR without seeing the Resurrection?[/QUOTE]
Really? Tell me: How does Scripture define Faith, Mr. Einstein?
3 how shall we escape if we neglect so great salvation? which began to be spoken through the Lord, and was confirmed for us by those that heard,
4 God jointly testifying with them, both by signs and wonders, and various mighty deeds, and distributions of the Holy Spirit, according to his will.
To the disciples, JESUS preached, taught, showed them miracles, wonders, signs and might deeds and in return, the Disciples, confirmed them.
So it was nothing to do with Faith but how Jesus was teaching them. They already have faith to believe in Him.
Jn 3:17 and 16 are the elect only or the Sheep or Christs Church in the world and they are the saved
I certainly know you, Mr. Worldly Wise Man, are as evidenced by your lack of answers to virtually all my questions.
Hebrews 11:1
Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.
ONLY the elect saw! To the rest, it was all hidden. Have you never read:
Matt 11:20-26
20 Then Jesus began to denounce the cities in which most of his miracles had been performed, because they did not repent. 21 "Woe to you, Korazin! Woe to you, Bethsaida! If the miracles that were performed in you had been performed in Tyre and Sidon, they would have repented long ago in sackcloth and ashes. 22 But I tell you, it will be more bearable for Tyre and Sidon on the day of judgment than for you. 23 And you, Capernaum, will you be lifted up to the skies? No, you will go down to the depths. If the miracles that were performed in you had been performed in Sodom, it would have remained to this day. 24 But I tell you that it will be more bearable for Sodom on the day of judgment than for you."
25 At that time Jesus said, "I praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have hidden these things from the wise and learned, and revealed them to little children. 26 Yes, Father, for this was your good pleasure.
NIV
Two groups of people; two lumps of clay. God took from one lump and made two lumps. One lump was the "little children" to whom God revealed His son; this group was the lump of clay prepared for noble purposes. The second lump consisted of the "wise and learned"; and this lump of clay was prepared for common or ignoble purposes.
In the final analysis it wasn't the external signs, wonders and miracles that produced faith. It was the invisible, internal, spiritual work of God in the disciples' hearts. Why do you think that one of the promises under the New Covenant is a new heart!?
And for those who doubt the doctrine of reprobation, read carefully the last two verses, And note carefully that both groups were acted upon by God for his good pleasure!
Thank you, sir. And just look at all the examples the writer of Hebrews gave in chapter 11!
Evidently you didn't understand vv. 25 and 26. There are two distinct groups of being talked about in this passage, by the way. Even the miracles had be impressed upon the hearts of his disciples.
A great companion passage to Matthew 11 is Peter's confession of faith and how Jesus responded to that confession (Mat 16:16-17). What Jesus is telling Peter is that he didn't come to this "saving knowledge" naturally!!!
I also broached this topic in my 2387 using Israel as an example.
P.S. Btw, I did edit the typo "was" toward the end of the post to which you're alluding.
So there was no misunderstanding, but an error on your part. Thanks for fixing it.
Here, just so you know what the scholars say about "Might Be Saved"
used to express the possibility that something will happen although not very likely:
That is what you keep doing by placing this to the Elect, they might be saved although not likely.
You are saying the Elect are not saved!
Your goal is to trap people into your doctrine. I am not interested into false idealism.
The verses I posted pertain to after Jesus DBR and Ascension. So what you posted has no connection to them.
Jn 3:17 and 16 are the elect only or the Sheep or Christs Church in the world and they are the saved
Aint no possibility to it, its a sure purpose that will occur. Just as Jesus coming into the world was fulfilled hence Matt 1:21-22
21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name Jesus: for he shall save his people from their sins.
22 Now all this was done, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying,
Ye do err in your understanding of the word might, you are thinking carnally about it instead of scripturally
Great example! And there's plenty more dealing with prophecy fulfillment from where that came. But according to Mr. Shiloh, where it is written "that it might be fulfilled" means only possibly fulfilled. God's prophecies could have failed.
Oy vey!If the father did not have any faith that the disciples of Jesus had power to heal his son in Jesus' name, why would he bring the son to them for healing? It seems both he and the disciples had faith, but also had a measure of unbelief that was undoing the effectiveness of their faith. Jesus said a mustard seed of faith without doubting is enough to move a mountain. maybe tou can have faith and have doubt. Maybe you can have a measure of faith that hopes and expects the thing needed but also a measure of counteracting faith in worldly thinking that worries and expects the worst.