God's Promises!

[posthuman]

Job said "the thing which I greatly feared is come upon me, and that which I was afraid of is come unto me" (Job 3:25)
Job was scared his kids would curse God and die and that;s exactly what happened!

Being fearful us actually sinful, so Job is the reason WHY the hedge of protection that God had put around him was broken which allowed the devil to have the right to attack Job.

that's completely inconsistent with the story

In all this Job sinned not, nor charged God foolishly.
(Job 1:22)​

​

Job had not sinned by loving his children, and we are expressly told in Job 1:6-2:10 why Job was stricken with illness & who it is that struck him: it is because of the charge of Satan in the presence of the angels that Job would surely curse God if the hedge around him was removed.

 

[posthuman]

The false belief that God is doing bad things to His people

how about the false belief that your mortal body experiencing its own mortality is an evil act of God, hmm?

 

[Stan_the_Man]

supplemental to the above is: 1st John 3:20-22 & John 14:13, 14.

1 John 3:20-22
For if our heart condemn us, God is greater than our heart, and knoweth all things.
Beloved, if our heart condemn us not, then have we confidence toward God.
And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight.

John 14:13,14
And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son.
If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it.

James 1:5-8 cancels these out if one is not praying / standing in faith.

For let not that man think that he shall receive any thing of the Lord.

James 1:5-8
If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him.
But let him ask in faith, nothing wavering. For he that wavereth is like a wave of the sea driven with the wind and tossed.
For let not that man think that he shall receive any thing of the Lord.
A double minded man is unstable in all his ways.


This is a BIG problem for a lot of Christians because they do not know how to stand in faith refusing to allow God's Word to be choked out in their lives which is when they quit believing due to circumstances.

2 Corinthians 5:7
For we walk by faith, not by sight

They don't understand that they need to stand and NOT be moved and be clothed in God's armor.

Ephesians 6:13-17
Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.
Stand therefore, having your loins girt about with truth, and having on the breastplate of righteousness;
And your feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace;
Above all, taking the shield of faith, wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked.
And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God

Then lots of folks don't forgive others and that causes their prayers to not be answered because they are in sin for refusing to forgive others.

Mark 11:25,26
And when ye stand praying, forgive, if ye have ought against any: that your Father also which is in heaven may forgive you your trespasses.
But if ye do not forgive, neither will your Father which is in heaven forgive your trespasses.

 

[Stan_the_Man]

In all this Job sinned not, nor charged God foolishly.
(Job 1:22)

It's possible because Job did not have a copy of God's Word in his hand like we do today that he was not aware of his sin and therefore God did not account it as sin

Romans 4:15
where no law is, there is no transgression.

We know for a FACT that Job was in fear since He tells us he was.

And, we know for a FACT that fear is a sin that causes some to go to hell as Jesus tell us us that in Revelation 21:8

No matter how you slice it, Job was the cause of the protective hedge of protection around him to be broken which is how satan had the legal right to take a shot at him.

Unless one wants to believe Gos was board one day and invited His good buddy satan over for tea and crumpets and they decided to makes some bets on Job which is how many of the false teachers frame this.

They claim God wanted to inflict harm upon Job and when we consider the whole counsel of God we now have, that's false doctrine. God is NOT testing, tempting, or trying man with evil

James 1:13
Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:

it is because of the charge of Satan in the presence of the angels that Job would surely curse God if the hedge around him was removed.

So you think the Lord was playing games with Job's life?

God told the devil Job was already in his hand, so Job is the reason the hedge of protection God placed around him was broke.

 

[Stan_the_Man]

how about the false belief that your mortal body experiencing its own mortality is an evil act of God, hmm?

God is not the One who caused man to sin and have to deal with their body getting old as a result.

Accusing God of doing evil to His people does not end well and it is ignoring the whole counsel of God.

 

[Stan_the_Man]

In all this Job sinned not, nor charged God foolishly.
(Job 1:22)

Besides this is speaking to Job's reaction to him being under attack

It does not speak to WHY Job came under attack in the first place, it's not speaking to the cause of the attack.

 

[Thunderrr-mental]

God is not the One who caused man to sin and have to deal with their body getting old as a result.

Accusing God of doing evil to His people does not end well and it is ignoring the whole counsel of God.

I don't believe it's a case of believing God will do evil to you.

It's a case of fearing what the lord is capable of doing to you.

To know the lord is to fear the lord.

So would fear be a sin in this instance.

Jonah got fearful and ran a away and then the lord rescued him.

But God also chastises those whom he loves to.

The bible even says God still loved us when we where dead in our trespasses.

But yet he brought suffering to whole nations who where dead in there trespasses whom he loved also according to scripture, in many ways he did this.

What I want to know is what does God mean when he says to his own church he will remove your candle stick if you don't repent.

 

[Stan_the_Man]

It's a case of fearing what the lord is capable of doing to you.

Why don't you cooperate with Him, abide IN Christ?

He is not causing harm to His people.

To know the lord is to fear the lord.

So would fear be a sin in this instance.

Different kind of fear verses being a coward and being scared which is what Job was doing concerning his kids.

It said he did the same sacrifice over and over because he was not in faith due to being in fear.

Jonah got fearful and ran a away and then the lord rescued him.

It was sin for him to do that and only when he repented did he become in right standing with the Lord once again.

But God also chastises those whom he loves to.

Yes, He teaches and corrects thru the Word of God and the Holy Spirit.

Not thru cancer, car wrecks, killing your spouse, burning your house down, etc, etc

The devil is trying to get Christians to believe God is the one doing these things but He's not.

The bible even says God still loved us when we where dead in our trespasses.

Yes, He loved the entire world - that does not mean it's OK to continue in sin.

But yet he brought suffering to whole nations who where dead in there trespasses whom he loved also according to scripture, in many ways he did this.

Yes, those in rebellion He allowed the devil to whack 'em.

God only directly attacks those who are attacking His people and He does that for self defense, unless they are walking in unbelief believing God is out to get them, then they are in sin and satan has legal right to attack them at that point.

What I want to know is what does God mean when he says to his own church he will remove your candle stick if you don't repent.

That means they living in sin and He is going to remove His Light, His favor, His cooperation with them becauise by not repenting they are willingly and knowingly continuing in sin and are no longer in right standing with the Lord.

2 Timothy 2:12
if we deny him, he also will deny us

Romans 1:28
And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;

 

[Thunderrr-mental]

Why don't you cooperate with Him, abide IN Christ?

He is not causing harm to His people.






Different kind of fear verses being a coward and being scared which is what Job was doing concerning his kids.

It said he did the same sacrifice over and over because he was not in faith due to being in fear.







It was sin for him to do that and only when he repented did he become in right standing with the Lord once again.






Yes, He teaches and corrects thru the Word of God and the Holy Spirit.

Not thru cancer, car wrecks, killing your spouse, burning your house down, etc, etc

The devil is trying to get Christians to believe God is the one doing these things but He's not.







Yes, He loved the entire world - that does not mean it's OK to continue in sin.







Yes, those in rebellion He allowed the devil to whack 'em.

God only directly attacks those who are attacking His people and He does that for self defense, unless they are walking in unbelief believing God is out to get them, then they are in sin and satan has legal right to attack them at that point.







That means they living in sin and He is going to remove His Light, His favor, His cooperation with them becauise by not repenting they are willingly and knowingly continuing in sin and are no longer in right standing with the Lord.

2 Timothy 2:12
if we deny him, he also will deny us

Romans 1:28
And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;

I'm understanding he can remove his light from you.

But what I'm not understanding is how long for.

And what would happen if the light is removed, would you be handed over to a reprobate mind for punishment until you repent,

And in which case would you also become unwell

 

[Stan_the_Man]

But what I'm not understanding is how long for.

Until they repent!

And what would happen if the light is removed, would you be handed over to a reprobate mind for punishment until you repent,

And in which case would you also become unwell

Anybody willing and knowingly living in sin is already becoming hardened in their heart.

Sin always brings for deception

Hebrews 3:13
But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin.

 

[Thunderrr-mental]

Until they repent!






Anybody willing and knowingly living in sin is already becoming hardened in their heart.

Sin always brings for deception

Hebrews 3:13
But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin.

It's not clear for me how long a person is handed over to a reprobate mind,.

For such a person to have the light removed this must be the start of punishment.

Would they not just be repenting to escape punishment, as it seems God is given warning to people with the light in them over and over again, before there punishment starts

 

[Charlie_2024]

or not.

remember Job, who was afflicted not only with loss of his family and his earthly wealth, but with sickness also - boils.

in the narrative, he was never told why, but we are told, and it wasn't because of sin. it was that God be glorified in the sight of the angels, through Jobs faith.

That's not a valid comparison, because God restored Job back to full health and wealth. And He gave him a new set of children as well so he was just as happy as he was before Satan messed with him.

We don't see that today, Christians are being tortured and murdered and God doesn't lift a finger to help them. So yeah, next please

 

[Charlie_2024]

It's really sad that some don't know the Lord very well and accuse Him of doing what the devil is doing. People that believe this have been deceived by the devil to accuse God of doing evil.

John 10:10
The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.

1 Peter 5:8
Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:

James 1:13
Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:

Jesus said if you've seen me you've seen the Father (John 14:9), and He said He only does what He sees the Father do (John 5:19) and we NEVER see Jesus doing bad things to people. Not even once!


God's Word does tell us why bad things happen to people and here's a few scriptures that speak to that:

Hosea 4:6
My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will also reject thee, that thou shalt be no priest to me: seeing thou hast forgotten the law of thy God, I will also forget thy children.

Proverbs 29:18
Where there is no vision, the people perish: but he that keepeth God's Word, happy is he.

Proverbs 26:2
the curse causeless shall not come.

Galatians 6:7,8
Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.
For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption;

James 1:5-8
If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him.
But let him ask in faith, nothing wavering. For he that wavereth is like a wave of the sea driven with the wind and tossed.
For let not that man think that he shall receive any thing of the Lord.
A double minded man is unstable in all his ways.





Job said "the thing which I greatly feared is come upon me, and that which I was afraid of is come unto me" (Job 3:25)
Job was scared his kids would curse God and die and that;s exactly what happened!

Being fearful us actually sinful, so Job is the reason WHY the hedge of protection that God had put around him was broken which allowed the devil to have the right to attack Job.

We know fear is a sin because Jesus said it is:

Revelation 21:8
But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

The false belief that God is doing bad things to His people to get glory is a lie of the devil - it's a trick of satan as it deceives people in to laying down and submitting to satan's attacks.

It's straight up false doctrine and physiological warfare by demons upon God's people to get them to believe God is bringing harm to them. It's disrespecting the Lord and it's an abomination to accuse the Lord of wrong doing!

You seem to have forgotten the fact that God killed billions of men, women, children and babies and pregnant women in Noah's flood and. He also ordered the genocide of entire ethnic groups after the flood.

According to your theory God has a bipolar mental disorder. That's why I said, it's extremely dangerous to push false doctrines which cannot be supported by the Bible.

The fact remains, we don't know why God chooses to inflict pain suffering and death on His people. We just have to trust Him when He said He has a good reason for everything He does. That's not an open ended doctrine, it what God said and we have no right or business to mess with it

 

[posthuman]

God is not the One who caused man to sin and have to deal with their body getting old as a result.

Accusing God of doing evil to His people does not end well and it is ignoring the whole counsel of God.

you realize it was Jobs foolish friends who swore up and down he was only sick because he had sinned, right?

 

[posthuman]

Besides this is speaking to Job's reaction to him being under attack

It does not speak to WHY Job came under attack in the first place, it's not speaking to the cause of the attack.

maybe you should read Job again.

 

[posthuman]

That's not a valid comparison, because God restored Job back to full health and wealth. And He gave him a new set of children as well so he was just as happy as he was before Satan messed with him.

We don't see that today, Christians are being tortured and murdered and God doesn't lift a finger to help them. So yeah, next please

i don't think He gave Job a new set of children. i think He resurrected Jobs children...

but this is exactly valid, because Job was explicitly not afflicted because of sin on his own part - you had said we could be sure that any misfortune occurring to us is the result of our sin, and Job emphatically opposes that. it was the advice of his friends that he must be being punished for sin, but they were wrong.


our hope in the gospel is a hope of resurrection, not of wealth and prosperity on earth. as Job was restored on earth by faith, we also will be restored in the resurrection, by faith. and as Job patiently praised God even in affliction, we ought also.

 

[Charlie_2024]

i don't think He gave Job a new set of children. i think He resurrected Jobs children...

but this is exactly valid, because Job was explicitly not afflicted because of sin on his own part - you had said we could be sure that any misfortune occurring to us is the result of our sin, and Job emphatically opposes that. it was the advice of his friends that he must be being punished for sin, but they were wrong.


our hope in the gospel is a hope of resurrection, not of wealth and prosperity on earth. as Job was restored on earth by faith, we also will be restored in the resurrection, by faith. and as Job patiently praised God even in affliction, we ought also.

I'll have to go back and check the word, i meant to say we don't know why God afflicts His people with evil. I meant to say "we couldn't be sure if it was because of our sin" as God didn't tell us in the Bible why He afflicts us.

Either way, whatever the reason for it. We know God does it for a good reason. He did promise that we would be persecuted and many killed for our faith in Him. So that might be a good starting point in coming to understand why.

We see Gods people being brutally tortured and killed all through the Bible, right up to 10 of His disciples being executed because they wouldn't renounce their faith in Him.

It seems to please God to make the wicked prosper with health and wealth, while afflicting His people with all kinds of evil things. My personal take is, He fattens the wicked for the slaughter and He chastises His children so they don't worship Mammon

 

[Thunderrr-mental]

That's not a valid comparison, because God restored Job back to full health and wealth. And He gave him a new set of children as well so he was just as happy as he was before Satan messed with him.

We don't see that today, Christians are being tortured and murdered and God doesn't lift a finger to help them. So yeah, next please

where they a new set of children

Until they repent!






Anybody willing and knowingly living in sin is already becoming hardened in their heart.

Sin always brings for deception

Hebrews 3:13
But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin.

I have another question for you

I have just read Job 2 again but this

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Job 2&version=NIV


On another day the angels[a] came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan also came with them to present himself before him. 2 And the Lord said to Satan, “Where have you come from?”

Satan answered the Lord, “From roaming throughout the earth, going back and forth on it.”

3 Then the Lord said to Satan, “Have you considered my servant Job? There is no one on earth like him; he is blameless and upright, a man who fears God and shuns evil. And he still maintains his integrity, though you incited me against him to ruin him without any reason.”

4 “Skin for skin!” Satan replied. “A man will give all he has for his own life. 5 But now stretch out your hand and strike his flesh and bones, and he will surely curse you to your face.”

6 The Lord said to Satan, “Very well, then, he is in your hands; but you must spare his life.”

7 So Satan went out from the presence of the Lord and afflicted Job with painful sores from the soles of his feet to the crown of his head. 8 Then Job took a piece of broken pottery and scraped himself with it as he sat among the ashes.

9 His wife said to him, “Are you still maintaining your integrity? Curse God and die!”

10 He replied, “You are talking like a foolish[b] woman. Shall we accept good from God, and not trouble?”

In all this, Job did not sin in what he said.

11 When Job’s three friends, Eliphaz the Temanite, Bildad the Shuhite and Zophar the Naamathite, heard about all the troubles that had come upon him, they set out from their homes and met together by agreement to go and sympathize with him and comfort him. 12 When they saw him from a distance, they could hardly recognize him; they began to weep aloud, and they tore their robes and sprinkled dust on their heads. 13 Then they sat on the ground with him for seven days and seven nights. No one said a word to him, because they saw how great his suffering was.


As you can see the verse about Jobs children being killed and satan controlling the weather is now missing.

Hmm I wonder why.

You seem to have forgotten the fact that God killed billions of men, women, children and babies and pregnant women in Noah's flood and. He also ordered the genocide of entire ethnic groups after the flood.

According to your theory God has a bipolar mental disorder. That's why I said, it's extremely dangerous to push false doctrines which cannot be supported by the Bible.

The fact remains, we don't know why God chooses to inflict pain suffering and death on His people. We just have to trust Him when He said He has a good reason for everything He does. That's not an open ended doctrine, it what God said and we have no right or business to mess with it

Putting them all to sleep would be a better choice of words.



After all it's his life so he has the power to take it and give it.

For instance it says on pass over the lord passed over and put all the new borns to sleep.

It's quite possible where ever you see the taking of life he simply just putting them to sleep first.

 

[posthuman]

Either way, whatever the reason for it. We know God does it for a good reason. He did promise that we would be persecuted and many killed for our faith in Him. So that might be a good starting point in coming to understand why.

totally agree

we're on the same page, i don't know why it didn't look like it for a minute.

It seems to please God to make the wicked prosper with health and wealth, while afflicting His people with all kinds of evil things. My personal take is, He fattens the wicked for the slaughter and He chastises His children so they don't worship Mammon

my take is that, those whose hope is in this world, He often mercifully gives them their hearts desire.

out hearts desire is for Him - so we know we have to wait, and i don't know about you, but i wake up every morning immediately praying for my loved ones, and asking for wisdom & patience, because i know the things i look for are a ways off yet.

lol it's always hours later before i remember also to ask that i have a good day and represent Him well

but i guess some people are naturally focused on here and now, seeking rewards

 

[Charlie_2024]

where they a new set of children
I have another question for you

I have just read Job 2 again but this

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Job 2&version=NIV


On another day the angels[a] came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan also came with them to present himself before him. 2 And the Lord said to Satan, “Where have you come from?”

Satan answered the Lord, “From roaming throughout the earth, going back and forth on it.”

3 Then the Lord said to Satan, “Have you considered my servant Job? There is no one on earth like him; he is blameless and upright, a man who fears God and shuns evil. And he still maintains his integrity, though you incited me against him to ruin him without any reason.”

4 “Skin for skin!” Satan replied. “A man will give all he has for his own life. 5 But now stretch out your hand and strike his flesh and bones, and he will surely curse you to your face.”

6 The Lord said to Satan, “Very well, then, he is in your hands; but you must spare his life.”

7 So Satan went out from the presence of the Lord and afflicted Job with painful sores from the soles of his feet to the crown of his head. 8 Then Job took a piece of broken pottery and scraped himself with it as he sat among the ashes.

9 His wife said to him, “Are you still maintaining your integrity? Curse God and die!”

10 He replied, “You are talking like a foolish[b] woman. Shall we accept good from God, and not trouble?”

In all this, Job did not sin in what he said.

11 When Job’s three friends, Eliphaz the Temanite, Bildad the Shuhite and Zophar the Naamathite, heard about all the troubles that had come upon him, they set out from their homes and met together by agreement to go and sympathize with him and comfort him. 12 When they saw him from a distance, they could hardly recognize him; they began to weep aloud, and they tore their robes and sprinkled dust on their heads. 13 Then they sat on the ground with him for seven days and seven nights. No one said a word to him, because they saw how great his suffering was.


As you can see the verse about Jobs children being killed and satan controlling the weather is now missing.

Hmm I wonder why.
Putting them all to sleep would be a better choice of words.



After all it's his life so he has the power to take it and give it.

For instance it says on pass over the lord passed over and put all the new borns to sleep.

It's quite possible where ever you see the taking of life he simply just putting them to sleep first.

Sorry to say, but that's not supported by the scripture. The book of Job confirms that he had 10 new children with his wife and it even mentions some of the new names he gave them.

Just look at Job chapters 41 and 42. It's all there, he became twice as rich as he was before and he had 10 new children and many grandchildren. We should take into consideration that people used to live for hundreds of years in those day, so they had plenty of time to have lots of children.

There's no need to spiritualize or add other possibilities to it, the story is perfectly logical as it is