THE REAL BAPTISM
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What did Peter say ? Acts 2:14-38
14 But Peter, standing up with the eleven, raised his voice and said to them, “Men of Judea and all who dwell in Jerusalem, let this be known to you, and heed my words. 15 For these are not drunk, as you suppose, since it is only the third hour of the day. 16 But this is what was spoken by the prophet Joel:
17 ‘and it shall come to pass in the last days, says God, (Joel did not use "last days" did he?)
That I will pour out of My Spirit on all flesh;
Your sons and your daughters shall prophesy,
Your young men shall see visions,
Your old men shall dream dreams.
18 And on My menservants and on My maidservants
I will pour out My Spirit in those days;
And they shall prophesy.
19 I will show wonders in heaven above
And signs in the earth beneath:
Blood and fire and vapor of smoke.
20 The sun shall be turned into darkness,
And the moon into blood,
Before the coming of the great and awesome day of the Lord.
21 And it shall come to pass
That whoever calls on the name of the Lord (whoso whoever is anyone who calls on the name of the Lord)
Shall be saved.’
22 “Men of Israel, hear these words: Jesus of Nazareth, a Man attested by God to you by miracles, wonders, and signs which God did through Him in your midst, as you yourselves also know— 23 Him, being delivered by the determined purpose and foreknowledge of God, you [f]have taken by lawless hands, have crucified, and put to death; 24 whom God raised up, having loosed the [h]pains of death, because it was not possible that He should be held by it. 25 For David says concerning Him:
‘I foresaw the Lord always before my face,
For He is at my right hand, that I may not be shaken.
26 Therefore my heart rejoiced, and my tongue was glad;
Moreover my flesh also will rest in hope.
27 For You will not leave my soul in Hades,
Nor will You allow Your Holy One to see corruption.
28 You have made known to me the ways of life;
You will make me full of joy in Your presence.’
29 “Men and brethren, let me speak freely to you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his tomb is with us to this day. 30 Therefore, being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him that of the fruit of his body, [i]according to the flesh, He would raise up the Christ to sit on his throne, 31 he, foreseeing this, spoke concerning the resurrection of the Christ, that His soul was not left in Hades, nor did His flesh see corruption. 32 This Jesus God has raised up, of which we are all witnesses. 33 Therefore being exalted to the right hand of God, and having received from the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, He poured out this which you now see and hear.
34 “For David did not ascend into the heavens, but he says himself:
‘The Lord said to my Lord,
“Sit at My right hand,
35 Till I make Your enemies Your footstool.” ’
36 “Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly that God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and Christ.”
37 Now when they heard this, they were cut to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, “Men and brethren, what shall we do?”
38 Then Peter said to them, “Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the [k]remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 39 For the promise is to you and to your children, and to all who are afar off, as many as the Lord our God will call.”
You is not correct based on what Peter said in Acts 2.
No, I believe if they were sincere in their heart and faith in the right object and place, I would believe they are saved. They are only doing what they were told by their traditions and religion. But I personally would want to be baptized the same way everyone mentioned in the bible was.
I don't disagree with what Jesus said. I just never seen it used in Scripture. And Peter in Acts 2 gave a direct command to the crowd asking what to do to be saved Acts 2:38 Jesus name
I don't disagree with what Jesus said. I just never seen it used in Scripture. And Peter in Acts 2 gave a direct command to the crowd asking what to do to be saved Acts 2:38 Jesus name
Yes and without sincere faith in the right object from the heart it would not matter what words were recited during baptism. Hearts are purified by faith and not by water baptism. (Acts 15:7-9)
Or by Jesus. (Matthew 28:19)
What words were recited during your baptism and in which church did your baptism take place?
Jesus said it and that's good enough for me.
This shortened version "in the name of Jesus Christ" stated in Acts 2 does not negate what Jesus taught in Matthew 28:19. Many passages in the New Testament speak of something done in the "name of Jesus" as a reference to the "authority of Jesus." It's faith in Jesus Christ (implied in repentance) that saves us rather than baptism or specific word formula's recited during baptism. (Acts 3:19; 11:17,18; 20:21)
Or by Jesus. (Matthew 28:19)
What words were recited during your baptism and in which church did your baptism take place?
Jesus said it and that's good enough for me.
This shortened version "in the name of Jesus Christ" stated in Acts 2 does not negate what Jesus taught in Matthew 28:19. Many passages in the New Testament speak of something done in the "name of Jesus" as a reference to the "authority of Jesus." It's faith in Jesus Christ (implied in repentance) that saves us rather than baptism or specific word formula's recited during baptism. (Acts 3:19; 11:17,18; 20:21)
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Still the Joel passage is yet not fully fulfilled.
Or was Israel in Jesus time a country living in peace and prosperous? No it was not!
So you take it out of the context, if you claim this was fully fulfilled.
Many take the Joel passage and put it on the today pentecostal movement.
This is creating a false teaching.
Or was Israel in Jesus time a country living in peace and prosperous? No it was not!
So you take it out of the context, if you claim this was fully fulfilled.
Many take the Joel passage and put it on the today pentecostal movement.
This is creating a false teaching.
United Pentecostal Church I now baptized you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of your sins. Do not try, which I think you are already subtlety trying to do, to bring denominational thought into it. Use strictly Bible knowledge not what was taught by denominational leaders.
God sometimes reveals things progressively throughout Scripture. Matthew 28:19 provides a foundational truth about the Godhead, but Acts 2:38, following Jesus' ascension and the arrival of the Holy Spirit, offers a fuller understanding of how that truth applies to baptism.
Romans 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
Colossians 2:9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.
No it does not negate Jesus' command only completes it in its fullest revelation.
God sometimes reveals things progressively throughout Scripture. Matthew 28:19 provides a foundational truth about the Godhead, but Acts 2:38, following Jesus' ascension and the arrival of the Holy Spirit, offers a fuller understanding of how that truth applies to baptism.
Romans 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
Colossians 2:9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.
No it does not negate Jesus' command only completes it in its fullest revelation.
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You did not answer my question. What words were recited during your baptism and in which church did your baptism take place?
I agree. Ephesians 3:1-9 for example.
In the name of Jesus Christ still applies to authority and baptized in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit is still sufficient.
"Baptized into Christ" does not mean water baptized into the body of Christ. That is only accomplished through Spirit baptism. (1 Corinthians 12:13) Now in what "sense" would a believer be "water baptized into Christ?" In the same "sense" that the Israelites were "baptized into Moses.." (1 Corinthians 10:2) The Israelites were not literally water baptized into the body of Moses and there is little dispute that being "baptized into Moses" signified the open allegiance and public identification of the Israelites with Moses as their leader. Moses was formally recognized as the leader of the covenant people. Water baptism signifies our allegiance and public identification with Christ as our Savior, so it would be in that sense.
I really like how the AMP version reads - For in Him all the fullness of Deity (the Godhead) dwells in bodily form [completely expressing the divine essence of God].
Jesus' command in Matthew 28:19 is not incomplete and it's by the authority of Jesus that we are baptized. Arguing over baptism word formulas is in vain. While delivering mail a while back, I was approached by a oneness pentecostal who lived on my mail route and she asked me where I went to church and if I was water baptized. She was not satisfied with my answer and told me that I needed to be rebaptized "in Jesus' name" only or else I would not be saved. I could not believe what I was hearing.
I agree. Ephesians 3:1-9 for example.
In the name of Jesus Christ still applies to authority and baptized in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit is still sufficient.
"Baptized into Christ" does not mean water baptized into the body of Christ. That is only accomplished through Spirit baptism. (1 Corinthians 12:13) Now in what "sense" would a believer be "water baptized into Christ?" In the same "sense" that the Israelites were "baptized into Moses.." (1 Corinthians 10:2) The Israelites were not literally water baptized into the body of Moses and there is little dispute that being "baptized into Moses" signified the open allegiance and public identification of the Israelites with Moses as their leader. Moses was formally recognized as the leader of the covenant people. Water baptism signifies our allegiance and public identification with Christ as our Savior, so it would be in that sense.
I really like how the AMP version reads - For in Him all the fullness of Deity (the Godhead) dwells in bodily form [completely expressing the divine essence of God].
Jesus' command in Matthew 28:19 is not incomplete and it's by the authority of Jesus that we are baptized. Arguing over baptism word formulas is in vain. While delivering mail a while back, I was approached by a oneness pentecostal who lived on my mail route and she asked me where I went to church and if I was water baptized. She was not satisfied with my answer and told me that I needed to be rebaptized "in Jesus' name" only or else I would not be saved. I could not believe what I was hearing.
Question 1 Bold purple Question 2 Bold black I thought I was very clear to your questions.
The comparison to the Israelites being "baptized into Moses" serves as a metaphorical illustration of unity and identification with a leader, as Paul uses it in 1 Corinthians 10:2. In the case of Christian baptism, it is about publicly declaring one's faith in Jesus Christ and identifying with Him in His death and resurrection.
The statement doesn't mention water baptism symbolizing the washing away of sin (Acts 22:16) or death to one's old life and resurrection to new life in Christ (Romans 6:4).
Understanding the practice and significance of baptism within the Christian faith often leads us to explore deeply rooted traditions, scriptural interpretations, and theological convictions. A point of discussion that arises among believers is the baptismal formula—specifically, whether baptism should be performed "in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit" as instructed by Jesus in Matthew 28:19, or solely "in the name of Jesus Christ," as seen in several instances in the Acts of the Apostles (e.g., Acts 2:38, Acts 8:16, Acts 19:5).
Firstly, it's important to recognize that both perspectives are held by those who earnestly seek to follow Christ's commands and live out their faith authentically. Those advocating for baptism "in the name of Jesus Christ" emphasize the centrality of Christ's identity, authority, and role in salvation. They often point to the practice of the early church as recorded in Acts to support their position, arguing that baptism in Jesus' name signifies a direct and personal acknowledgment of His lordship and the full revelation of God made manifest in Christ.
Conversely, those who support the formula of baptism as outlined in Matthew 28:19 do so with the understanding that it reflects ALL the Godhead and affirms the believer's commitment to God's revelation as Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. This formula encapsulates the Godhead and the believer's entry into the life of the with God.
We need to approach this with a posture of humility and a recognition of our shared commitment to following Jesus. While we may hold different views on the formula used in baptism, our common ground lies in the transformative work of Christ in our lives and our collective calling to be His witnesses in the world. It's also worth considering the early church's flexibility and diversity in expressing theological truths, which suggests that our unity in Christ transcends specific formulations and practices.
Ultimately, our focus should remain on the heart of baptism: a public declaration of faith in Jesus Christ, repentance from sin, and the beginning of a new life led by the Spirit. In expressing our viewpoints, let us do so with love, seeking to build up the body of Christ rather than creating divisions. By emphasizing our shared faith in Jesus and His saving work on the cross, we can foster a spirit of unity and mutual respect even amidst our differences.
In conclusion, while we may hold to our convictions, let us also remember Paul's words in Ephesians 4:4-6, "There is one body and one Spirit—just as you were called to the one hope that belongs to your call— one Lord, one faith, one baptism, one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all." May our discussions and practices around baptism always reflect the love, grace, and unity that we have in Christ Jesus.
In the name of Jesus Christ still applies to authority and baptized in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit is still sufficient.
"Baptized into Christ" does not mean water baptized into the body of Christ. That is only accomplished through Spirit baptism. (1 Corinthians 12:13) Now in what "sense" would a believer be "water baptized into Christ?" In the same "sense" that the Israelites were "baptized into Moses.." (1 Corinthians 10:2) The Israelites were not literally water baptized into the body of Moses and there is little dispute that being "baptized into Moses" signified the open allegiance and public identification of the Israelites with Moses as their leader. Moses was formally recognized as the leader of the covenant people. Water baptism signifies our allegiance and public identification with Christ as our Savior, so it would be in that sense.
I really like how the AMP version reads - For in Him all the fullness of Deity (the Godhead) dwells in bodily form [completely expressing the divine essence of God].
Jesus' command in Matthew 28:19 is not incomplete and it's by the authority of Jesus that we are baptized. Arguing over baptism word formulas is in vain. While delivering mail a while back, I was approached by a oneness pentecostal who lived on my mail route and she asked me where I went to church and if I was water baptized. She was not satisfied with my answer and told me that I needed to be rebaptized "in Jesus' name" only or else I would not be saved. I could not believe what I was hearing.
"Baptized into Christ" does not mean water baptized into the body of Christ. That is only accomplished through Spirit baptism. (1 Corinthians 12:13) Now in what "sense" would a believer be "water baptized into Christ?" In the same "sense" that the Israelites were "baptized into Moses.." (1 Corinthians 10:2) The Israelites were not literally water baptized into the body of Moses and there is little dispute that being "baptized into Moses" signified the open allegiance and public identification of the Israelites with Moses as their leader. Moses was formally recognized as the leader of the covenant people. Water baptism signifies our allegiance and public identification with Christ as our Savior, so it would be in that sense.
I really like how the AMP version reads - For in Him all the fullness of Deity (the Godhead) dwells in bodily form [completely expressing the divine essence of God].
Jesus' command in Matthew 28:19 is not incomplete and it's by the authority of Jesus that we are baptized. Arguing over baptism word formulas is in vain. While delivering mail a while back, I was approached by a oneness pentecostal who lived on my mail route and she asked me where I went to church and if I was water baptized. She was not satisfied with my answer and told me that I needed to be rebaptized "in Jesus' name" only or else I would not be saved. I could not believe what I was hearing.
The statement doesn't mention water baptism symbolizing the washing away of sin (Acts 22:16) or death to one's old life and resurrection to new life in Christ (Romans 6:4).
Understanding the practice and significance of baptism within the Christian faith often leads us to explore deeply rooted traditions, scriptural interpretations, and theological convictions. A point of discussion that arises among believers is the baptismal formula—specifically, whether baptism should be performed "in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit" as instructed by Jesus in Matthew 28:19, or solely "in the name of Jesus Christ," as seen in several instances in the Acts of the Apostles (e.g., Acts 2:38, Acts 8:16, Acts 19:5).
Firstly, it's important to recognize that both perspectives are held by those who earnestly seek to follow Christ's commands and live out their faith authentically. Those advocating for baptism "in the name of Jesus Christ" emphasize the centrality of Christ's identity, authority, and role in salvation. They often point to the practice of the early church as recorded in Acts to support their position, arguing that baptism in Jesus' name signifies a direct and personal acknowledgment of His lordship and the full revelation of God made manifest in Christ.
Conversely, those who support the formula of baptism as outlined in Matthew 28:19 do so with the understanding that it reflects ALL the Godhead and affirms the believer's commitment to God's revelation as Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. This formula encapsulates the Godhead and the believer's entry into the life of the with God.
We need to approach this with a posture of humility and a recognition of our shared commitment to following Jesus. While we may hold different views on the formula used in baptism, our common ground lies in the transformative work of Christ in our lives and our collective calling to be His witnesses in the world. It's also worth considering the early church's flexibility and diversity in expressing theological truths, which suggests that our unity in Christ transcends specific formulations and practices.
Ultimately, our focus should remain on the heart of baptism: a public declaration of faith in Jesus Christ, repentance from sin, and the beginning of a new life led by the Spirit. In expressing our viewpoints, let us do so with love, seeking to build up the body of Christ rather than creating divisions. By emphasizing our shared faith in Jesus and His saving work on the cross, we can foster a spirit of unity and mutual respect even amidst our differences.
In conclusion, while we may hold to our convictions, let us also remember Paul's words in Ephesians 4:4-6, "There is one body and one Spirit—just as you were called to the one hope that belongs to your call— one Lord, one faith, one baptism, one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all." May our discussions and practices around baptism always reflect the love, grace, and unity that we have in Christ Jesus.
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Our Church Elders/Ministers perform the first (water) baptism. The second (fire) baptism is done by the Holy Spirit, who burns up our works in a furnace, and removes the dross to make us as pure as fine gold.
The Holy Spirit needs to make us as pure gold, before we enter God's Kingdom, as God will not tolerate the slightest stain on our white robes.
So both baptisms are important but the second one more important.
We must be perfect like Christ before we can enter into God's presence. He doesn't tolerate any imperfections in His sight.
The Holy Spirit needs to make us as pure gold, before we enter God's Kingdom, as God will not tolerate the slightest stain on our white robes.
So both baptisms are important but the second one more important.
We must be perfect like Christ before we can enter into God's presence. He doesn't tolerate any imperfections in His sight.
Your issue is you hate Pentecostals. That's okay. Most of us are used to hearing those who are Censassionists. You bring what you call Pentecostalism while incapable of seeing the Scriptures that support the positions. You can't provide one scripture, not one that says
The Gifts of the Holy Spirit have stopped or not for today. The "initial evidence " teaching understood that all who were empowered by the New Testament Church Found in the book of Acts 1. spoke tongues or Prophesied. The 1800s and the 1900s were not the first time, more like 40 AD.
it was not Pentacostel churches who wrote Acts.
It was not I who recorded the laying on of hands and Something happen each time they in the Early Church did so when praying for those to received the Power of the Holy Spirit That The Lord Jesus said all can have.
It is those like you who bring up false teachings like the gifts are no longer for today. it is people like you who teach that only the Apostles are the ones who laid a hand for those to receive. Making it about man instead of God.
Peter did not lay a hand in the House of Cornelious. did he
It was Ananias who laid hands on Paul, a "Disciple," The Book of Acts said.
It is you who are more in error than those you attack. That to will fall on deaf ears because you are a hater
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Your issue is you hate Pentecostals. That's okay. Most of us are used to hearing those who are Censassionists. You bring what you call Pentecostalism while incapable of seeing the Scriptures that support the positions. You can't provide one scripture, not one that says
The Gifts of the Holy Spirit have stopped or not for today. The "initial evidence " teaching understood that all who were empowered by the New Testament Church Found in the book of Acts 1. spoke tongues or Prophesied. The 1800s and the 1900s were not the first time, more like 40 AD.
it was not Pentacostel churches who wrote Acts.
It was not I who recorded the laying on of hands and Something happen each time they in the Early Church did so when praying for those to received the Power of the Holy Spirit That The Lord Jesus said all can have.
It is those like you who bring up false teachings like the gifts are no longer for today. it is people like you who teach that only the Apostles are the ones who laid a hand for those to receive. Making it about man instead of God.
Peter did not lay a hand in the House of Cornelious. did he
It was Ananias who laid hands on Paul, a "Disciple," The Book of Acts said.
It is you who are more in error than those you attack. That to will fall on deaf ears because you are a hater
The Gifts of the Holy Spirit have stopped or not for today. The "initial evidence " teaching understood that all who were empowered by the New Testament Church Found in the book of Acts 1. spoke tongues or Prophesied. The 1800s and the 1900s were not the first time, more like 40 AD.
it was not Pentacostel churches who wrote Acts.
It was not I who recorded the laying on of hands and Something happen each time they in the Early Church did so when praying for those to received the Power of the Holy Spirit That The Lord Jesus said all can have.
It is those like you who bring up false teachings like the gifts are no longer for today. it is people like you who teach that only the Apostles are the ones who laid a hand for those to receive. Making it about man instead of God.
Peter did not lay a hand in the House of Cornelious. did he
It was Ananias who laid hands on Paul, a "Disciple," The Book of Acts said.
It is you who are more in error than those you attack. That to will fall on deaf ears because you are a hater
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Acts 2:17 (Joel 2:28)
Vers 28 startet: afterward...... from what is described in the verses before. This was not the situation of Israel in Peters days. And this not happend till today! So it will be in Future. I would understand in the beginning of the Millennium.
You have to take vers 28 out of the context for to claim that Joel 2,28 is fullfilled.
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Baptism with Water
Baptism with water is symbolic of repentance and the washing away of sins. It represents a believer's decision to turn away from sin and to be cleansed spiritually. This act of baptism is an outward sign of an inward commitment to follow Jesus Christ.
This is the form of baptism most commonly practiced among Christian groups. It involves the physical act of being immersed in water or having water poured or sprinkled on one's head, depending on the denomination's tradition.
Baptism with the Holy Spirit and Fire
Baptism with the Holy Spirit is described as an empowering experience that endows believers with the gifts and fruits of the Holy Spirit, enabling them to live out their faith more fully and to serve within the church and the world. The reference to "fire" is often interpreted to symbolize the purifying and refining action of the Holy Spirit, burning away impurities and igniting the believer's faith and zeal.
Unlike water baptism, which is a one-time physical act, the baptism with the Holy Spirit is seen as a more continuous experience that can occur at or after the time of water baptism. This experience is often associated with specific spiritual manifestations, such as speaking in tongues in some denominations, though interpretations vary widely.
Water baptism is primarily about the individual's commitment to turn from sin and follow Christ. The baptism with the Holy Spirit is about equipping the believer with divine power for sanctification and ministry.
Baptism with water is symbolic of repentance and the washing away of sins. It represents a believer's decision to turn away from sin and to be cleansed spiritually. This act of baptism is an outward sign of an inward commitment to follow Jesus Christ.
This is the form of baptism most commonly practiced among Christian groups. It involves the physical act of being immersed in water or having water poured or sprinkled on one's head, depending on the denomination's tradition.
Baptism with the Holy Spirit and Fire
Baptism with the Holy Spirit is described as an empowering experience that endows believers with the gifts and fruits of the Holy Spirit, enabling them to live out their faith more fully and to serve within the church and the world. The reference to "fire" is often interpreted to symbolize the purifying and refining action of the Holy Spirit, burning away impurities and igniting the believer's faith and zeal.
Unlike water baptism, which is a one-time physical act, the baptism with the Holy Spirit is seen as a more continuous experience that can occur at or after the time of water baptism. This experience is often associated with specific spiritual manifestations, such as speaking in tongues in some denominations, though interpretations vary widely.
Water baptism is primarily about the individual's commitment to turn from sin and follow Christ. The baptism with the Holy Spirit is about equipping the believer with divine power for sanctification and ministry.
4And Jesus answering, said to them, “Take heed, lest anyone mislead you. 5For many will come in My name, saying, ‘I am the Christ,’ and they will mislead many.
5Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless anyone be born of water and of the Spirit, he is not able to enter into the kingdom of God. 6That having been born of the flesh is flesh, and that having been born of the Spirit is spirit.
34for he whom God sent, the sayings of God he speaketh; for not by measure doth God give the Spirit; 35the Father doth love the Son, and all things hath given into his hand; 36he who is believing in the Son, hath life age-during; and he who is not believing the Son, shall not see life, but the wrath of God doth remain upon him.’ John 3:34-36
If you abide in My word, you are truly My disciples. John 8:30
5Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless anyone be born of water and of the Spirit, he is not able to enter into the kingdom of God. 6That having been born of the flesh is flesh, and that having been born of the Spirit is spirit.
34for he whom God sent, the sayings of God he speaketh; for not by measure doth God give the Spirit; 35the Father doth love the Son, and all things hath given into his hand; 36he who is believing in the Son, hath life age-during; and he who is not believing the Son, shall not see life, but the wrath of God doth remain upon him.’ John 3:34-36
If you abide in My word, you are truly My disciples. John 8:30
ACTS 19:4
4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.
I would like to ask a question on what should be believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.
4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.
I would like to ask a question on what should be believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.